Vocal parts

[funkyfingaz]

I'm beginning a group but im not too kean on creating parts for tenors, alto, sopranos etc. I know the parts are sumwhere in what Im playing but I have trouble creating the tenors and altos parts without having them clash. Advice would be appreciated. Also if anyone have any ways or ideas I can use to train their voices that would be appreciated. Thanx.

[playhear]

Great question. Maybe we need another link to the left for "Gospel Voice". What do you say moderators?

Anyway, generally, I would assume to prevent clash you want them singing different notes but within the same harmony. For example, if the melody is at the note G and the chord is C, maybe have sopranos sing a high G and have altos, etc., sing E or C at lower registers.

Someone more educated on this please chime in.

[funkyfingaz]

help appreciated playhear, ne one else chiming in?

[playhear]

Funkyfingaz, you should post in Gospel Piano or Music Lounge. Those forums get more traffic. I'm interested in the answer to this post as well.

[LadyWiz]

Great question. Maybe we need another link to the left for "Gospel Voice". What do you say moderators?

I suggested this a looooooong time ago, but I was told there was another website (perhaps connected to this one?) that had discussion boards for vocalists. But I like this website!  :cry:

[playhear]

Great question. Maybe we need another link to the left for "Gospel Voice". What do you say moderators?

I suggested this a looooooong time ago, but I was told there was another website (perhaps connected to this one?) that had discussion boards for vocalists. But I like this website!  :cry:

LadyWiz, you holdin' out on me? Give up the goods. Where's that website?

[Wash]

I would also like to know what site that is Lady Wiz.  Thank You.

Pass it on

GOD BLESS YOU

[sjonathan02]

I'm beginning a group but im not too kean on creating parts for tenors, alto, sopranos etc. I know the parts are sumwhere in what Im playing but I have trouble creating the tenors and altos parts without having them clash. Advice would be appreciated. Also if anyone have any ways or ideas I can use to train their voices that would be appreciated. Thanx.

I might be able to help in terms of finding the 3 parts. Do you play the keyboard?

[musmin7]

Question, are you speaking of arranging vocals for songs you have written or learning and teaching songs that are already recorded?

The standard vocal parts will be placed in s/a/t made up of a simple triad.
The triad based on I III V (scale degrees) or and variation of that major chord.
The movment in each part will be determined by the type of sound you are trying to achieve.
The melody line which is usually the soparno line is normally on top (high note), the alto is place in the middle and usually is pretty centered around the key of the song or root of the chord, the tenor supports the bottom (lower range) and is usually written from F3 to Gb4 while the alto in the middle goes from Bb3 to C5 and the soprano from G4 to Gb 5.
Those are the ranges I use when writting vocals depending on the key of the song.

When you consider a simple song like Hez Walkers Oh Lord We Praise You
in Db, the piano can play the vocal parts just as they are sung and then branch out to ad more flavor by adding chords, riffs and scales.

The song is a standard I IV V set of chords but not all played in the root position!

Db / Db F Ab   oh
F / ******
Gb / Db Gb Bb  lord
Bb/ F Ab Db       we
Ab / Eb Ab C       pra
C / ******         ise
Db / F Ab Db       you

you notice the chords go from Db root to Gb 2nd invers to Db 1st invers to Ab 2nd invers to Db 1st invers.

with the melody on top it's fairly easy to format the alto an tenor parts.
notice how the alto stays in the center on we praise you.
This  is basic and the alto can move a little more but this is just to keep it simple.

One way to train the singers to better hear standard harmony is to use the Old Three stooges sign on HELLO  HELLO HELLO or any variation there of.
Do this with the basic triad in the root position starting with tenor alto then soprano.
after doing it forward start from the top down letting the soprano go first.
then once that is mastered have the alto start then tenor then soprano then reverse order to alto tenor soprano.
lastly do the same exersise with the chord inverted to 1st and 2nd positions.

while teaching the parts teach them to listen and sing the harmony in thier head and have them start in the middle of the phrase rather than the begining so while the soprano sings the line stop them in the middle and have the alto pick it up from that point but on the alto note and so on.

Lastly get them used to hearing the diff between 1/2 step intervals C-C#
and whole step intervals C-D and octaves C-C
this will help them to pick out parts and hear them with ease.
Pray this helps

[diverse379]

this question is not easy to answer because they teach this in college and it takes four years to finish the topic chorale harmony the same you see in hymns
the basic thing I can say is that yes you definitely want the thre or four voices to blend with the chords you are playing the way they teach vacal arranging in school is to begin with the melody and the bass in other words play just the bass against tje soprano line now once you have that set you want to add your inner voices alto and bass each voice should move to the nearest chord tone

another factor to consider is use contrary motion when you can that is when one voice goes up while another goes down next best is oblique that is when one voice goes either up or down and the other stays still
the least desirable is when both voices move together

in a lot of gospel songs both contemporary and traditional the voices move together a lot but there are those moments when you hear the contrary motion and it sounds real hot

rule of thumb for vocal range

sopranos go from g above middle c to the octave above that g

altos go from d above middle c to the octave above that d

tenors go from a below middle c to the octave above that a

here is another thing that helps you can use gospel choir voicings these are the triad built on the one
the triad built on the minor two
and the triad built on the four

in the key of c this would be ceg
                                          dfa
                                           fac

another good thing to do is uyse a string patch when arranging vocals
because piano notes sound different when played then voices do
poiano chords sound great when spread out but vocals tend to sound off balance when you have too much space between parts

try deeping them no bigger then a fifth apart and even then they whould be moving together in contray motion

i am going to write a short two measure example
from a bach chorale if you can read please check this master of counter point out

these are all single notes and should be played pretty much together it is difficult because i cant write note values so some notes will have to be ommitted but this should give you an  idea

play these as all quarter notes even though they are different if you see a space hold the note if you see an x dont play the note
THE SECOND G IN THE BASS COMES UP AN OCTAVE
YOU ARE READING FROM THE BOTTOM UP THE BOTTOM IS BASS THE TOP IS SOPRANO THE SECOND FROM THE TOP IS ALTO AND THE SECOND FROM THE BOTTOM IS TENOR
          the d below went up  not down
G G          D B A   G
D D E       D D      B
B B C  CB A G F# G
G G E       F#X D   E  

notice how some notes hold while others move and they come to gether

as long as your voices match your chord you will be alright generally your vocal parts shoud be the main tones of a triad root third and fifth sevenths only as passing notes if you want edge and tension use them to sound ninths and thirteenths but use with care

again this subject is deep  and takes good ears or good theory or good luck or the holy spirit to do it well

one thing to try also is to play the chords in your left hand and beginning with the soprano voice add the alto voice to it and then the tenor voice to the melody the soprano is sounding

and last but definitely not least is an old trick

sixths harmonize the melody in sixths the top of the sixth will be the soprano and the botom of the sixth will be the tenor now your alto can be one of the notes in between dictated by the chord in your left hand again remember the basic rule of thumb

contrary is best
oblique is second best
parallell is acceptable
mix them up and nothing beats listening to how other arrangers harmonize their voices learn how to read and study the great composers from Richard smallwood definetely listen to t.d jakes those vocal arrangements are beautiful especially Stephen laurence he tends to use the one two four method i outlined above

[Davelong]

How I wish my choir had the range that your choir does, 'diverse379'!

My choir is far more limited in range, being a regular church choir.  Here are the ranges that I am limited to with my singers:

Sopranos:  "G" below middle "C" up to "E", top space of the treble cleff(an ocave and a fourth range)

Altos:  "E" below middle "C" up to "C", an ocatave above middle "C" (an octave and a minor 6th range)

Tenors:  (well actually, we're all baritones - if you're lucky, you'll get some REAL tenors, but we just have baritones who sing as high as possible)  Top note:  "F" above middle "C".

"Diverse379" was right about using chordal voicings such as:
"the triad built on the one
the triad built on the minor two
and the triad built on the four" - actually, using just the "I" and "ii" in different inversions, you can harmonize 'Amazing Grace' and LOTS of gospel songs - while the band plays other harmonies below.  Yet another really cool thing about gospel music!

[Blssd]

You all seem very knowledgeable I posted my question somewhere else but hopefully yallc an help me too...

First of all thanks diverse for the rule of thumbe that helps a lot

I would like to know how to find theproper notes/harmony forthe above song..I got the alto but have difficulty finding the sop note on my keyboard/piano it's possible they need tunning...but when i sing the note w/ the song and then try to play it it sounds way different...

Can yall help me please?

[Blssd]

You all seem very knowledgeable I posted my question somewhere else but hopefully yall can help me too...

First of all thanks diverse for the rule of thumbe that helps a lot

I would like to know how to find the proper notes/harmony for the above song..I got the alto but have difficulty finding the sop note on my keyboard/piano it's possible they need tunning...but when i sing the note w/ the song i got it but then i try to play it it sounds way different...

Can yall help me please?

[diverse379]

I do worship I have the shet music with the voxal pars I think around here somehwere 

do you need the wholle song or just parts

you say its hard to hear the soprano but the soprano should be the easiest to hear because it is what you hear as the melody


Diverse379@verizon.net
is my email i will try to give you the choir parts