Visualizing the Fretboard

[Torch7]

Anyone have a way that helped them learn the fretboard by sight.

I find all the notes pretty well, but find myself, having to count the frets in my head, & jottin' them down.. everytime, the Praise leader begins, a new song.. & tells me the bass notes

Or does visualization come over time.

[Groovesmith]

for me personaly remebering where the notes are came over time, I didnt try anything to memorize it just after a while it becomes natural.  And you dont even have to know every note, bc things work in octaves so if you know the E string your set bc you now know the D sting also except a few notes that dont have coressponding octaves.  

Groovesmith

[uriahsmusic]

the dots are on 3-5-7-9-12....

[Torch7]

Thanks for the responses,

Uriah, I have been using the dots, for a reference point... thanks that's good info.

Groovesmith, thanks for the input about octaves... I stay down around the 8 fret, because still working on flexibility on the lower notes, where the frets are further apart.

I was just wondering if there was any tricks that seasoned bassist could offer... Like I noticed parallel strings are always 5 notes apart.  I usually can navigate pretty well, using scales if you said Groovesmith, I can find the note on the E string... using the 2-4; 1-2-4; 1-3-4 scale pattern..  Again, I guess I just need to be patient, and the more I play the more comfortable I get... I have been playing for 7 months, but really taking the time to practice, on a consistent basis for the last month and a half.

Thanks again folks.

[djgroovin]

This comes over time.  What has helped me was to learn the scales up two octaves.

[Torch7]

Thanks djgroovin, I will give that a shot.

[MikeGee]

this is not uncommon, i know players don't have any of the fingerboard memorized. I just started by memorizing the 5th fret, 7th fret and 12th fret. Then from there it was a matter knowing the notes in order. higher one half step or lower one fret or 2 or 3. time, practice.


Try running scales and saying the notes as you play the scales.

[Torch7]

Good lookin' out Mike Gee.

[pnguin1979]

I used to play bass for a pastor who play every song in the key of "G"
Pretty boring but it was actually the most eye opening experience i've had.

everything on the fretboard is perfectly laid out.  

check it out
key of g
----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
-------------3--5--7------------------------
--3--5--7----------------------------------

key of C

------------------------
----------------3---5---7-
--3----5---7------------
-----------------------

Each pattern is exactly the same just move it up the the root of which you're playing.
using these patterns  you get the 1,2,3,4,5,6 chords all easily accessible
and with strong visualization.  

You have your 1,4,5

------------
-----------
-----3--5---
--3--------

if you go into the 6 chord (using a 3 chord transition)

---------------
----------------
-----------7----
-3----7----------

going back down to the 5 chord (by way of the 2 chord)

-----------------
-----------------
---7-----5---------
------5------------

anywayz you can start to see how this works.  if you see these patterns
you can play in any key just move the pattern up to the root on the e or a strings.  so you get all the chords used in the majority of gospel songs in a neat little 6 note scale.

[tondee]

Everything on the fretboard is perfectly laid out.  

Each pattern is exactly the same just move it up the the root of which you're playing...  Using these patterns you get the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 chords all easily accessible and with strong visualization...

Anywayz you can start to see how this works.  if you see these patterns
you can play in any key just move the pattern up to the root on the e or a strings.  so you get all the chords used in the majority of gospel songs in a neat little 6 note scale.

This is EXACTLY what I see and do.  And I like the way you explained it.

Tony

[Torch7]

Thanks pnguin1979

I am gonna print out your post, and definately attempt to visualize things tht way.

I've gotten a few songs learned by memory, but unfortunately I have not been able to see such patterns, despite the chords being able to be moved around.

[pnguin1979]

I think the best way to start visualizing things is to go back to those songs that you know by heart and just break it down.  You know, "like during the chorus of the song I play a G then a C then a D" and say yeah that's a 1, 4, 5  Here's what that pattern looks like in this situation.  then take that same exact pattern and try to find it in other songs that you know.  Eventually (learning by ear) you'll start to be able to feel what's coming next in the song.  
once you get that down you can start throwing in your scales and jazzing it up, because you know exactly what notes you need to hit and when.

But like I said earlier the way it hit me was playing multiple songs in the same key.  that way you see the chord changes over and over again, the same chords just used a little differently for different songs, but always the same notes, and then you'll start to see your pattern.

[tondee]

pnguin1979,

How do you see a song that's, let's say, key of G minor.  How and where would you see that within your pattern?

Tony

[pnguin1979]

minors are alot harder to fit into clean patterns for me.  I don't really find myself playing too much stuff in minor but this always seems to work.
pentatonic scales help me out alot too.  i know the box patterns. so adding a note here and there helps to complete the scale.
it would be something like this (i listed the fret #s to show the pattern)

in A

----------------------------------
------------5--7--------------------
------------5--7-8------------------
--0--1--3--5--7-8-----------------------

in D
------------5--7--------------------
------------5--7-8------------------
--0--1--3--5--7-8-----------------------
-----------------------------------------

let me know what you think and if you do anything different.
josh

[tondee]

pnguin1979,

Of course, we're speaking of progressions.  I see it like this:

:- - - - -+- - - - -+- - x - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+
:- - - - -+- - 4 - -+- - - - -+- - 5 - -+- - - - -+- - 6 - -+- - - - -+
:- - - - -+- - 1 - -+- - - - -+- - 2 - -+- - - - -+- - 3 - -+- - - - -+
:- - - - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+- - 6 - -+- - - - -+- - 7- -+- - - - -+

I would start on the 6 and SEE it as "6" instead of seeing it as a "1" with a flat 3.  This way, I can keep what I already have, familiar ground.  I usually play that "1" (the flat 3) way back there on the other string.  For now, I accept the frivolous hand-movement because it allows me to keep my note-count.


But sometimes I would play this pattern:    

:- - - - -+- - - - -+- - x - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+
:- - - - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+- - 5 - -+- - - - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+
:- - - - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+- - 2 - -+- - - - -+- - 3 - -+- - 4 - -+
:- - - - -+- - x - -+- - - - -+- - 6 - -+- - - - -+- - 7 - -+- - 1 - -+


But I'd still have the first pattern (which includes your pattern, the 1-2-3 / 4-5-6) visualized in my mind.  The only time I think 1-2-flat 3 minor is when I'm playing chordal stuff.  

Understand, I don't consider myself 'good' yet.  I was/am forced to keep up with 2 keys and this was/is the only way I could do it on the fly.  
Let me know what you think.

Tony

[pnguin1979]

tony,

i think i'm seeing where you're coming from with those patterns.


Correct me if i'm misinterpreting the pattern,
you use the same major pattern, you replace the b3 with the 1,
and raise the 7th (i guess it would be dependent on the song what you did with the 7th)

so looking at your pattern, do you actually replace the b3 with the 1?

[tondee]

If you look at the first pattern, the 6 and 7 are bold-typed.  In the major scale, that's where they actually are, right?  So, I don't replace anything.  

Where one person would think minor (with all the flats) to play in a minor key, I keep what I have (major stuff) and start at the low 6.  And think "6-7-1", playing up to the familiar ground.  Play up to, or play on the lower end, or front end.  The second pattern, I see as playing on the front end of the major pattern.

Make sense?

Tony

[pnguin1979]

allright bro, i see exactly where you're coming from.  I like your patterns so  thanks for the visual.  up till now i've just been using minor scales to figure the basslines out.  you already saw my pattern for the major.  
i'm definitely a visual learner.  

so what songs do you typically play that are minor?

[tondee]

I'll have to take a look at the songs and see but the only one I can think of right now off the top of my head is 'Hosanna'.  There's a lot of songs that start in Major and then later flip into the relative minor for the bridge, sometimes a looong bridge.  I'll have to look and see what minor songs I play.  There's not many.  

Another one is 'Angels' (watching over me) by Richard Smallwood.  During the chorus, when they say 'Angels watching over me', I play down to the 6.  Actually, I start with a chromatic note G# up to 2(A) then descend 5-1-4-7-3-6(E).  I just picked up the bass to figure this one out, using the first pattern.

I'll try to show more later.

Tony

[pnguin1979]

Allright, that's pretty much how it is here to, or anywhere i've been for that matter.  primarily major with just a hint of minor.  and it's like you said the major just goes relative.

up till now i haven't really thought about minors all that much for that very reason.  it'll be good to start getting into it.