fake books

[psychopianoman]

I am wondering about fake books and lead sheats. I have been racking my brain trying to learn to play by ear, I have no problem picking out the melody at this point so I have defeated that and I know how to apply basic chords to the melody so if the song is not huge I can play a basic version in about 10 min. or so but I am not doing good at adding nicer sounding chords such as sevenths, ninths, elevenths, and thirteenths.

I am going to keep at it but I want to play music with people and I can not do that by ear and I am not a fan of sight reading so that is not an option.

What I have found that I am interested in are fake books and lead sheats. I know tons of chords and inversions and some voicings for all these chords so I am wondering how you use this material. If I just hit the chords that are posted it does not allways sound right so I have to find the right inversion and if that does not work then I have to find the right chord inversion and the right bass note as well. Example: it will just say C above a word, how do I know if I am to play the C over a C base or a C over a G octave in the left hand or a second inversion of C over a G octave

I saw an article that 4hisglory wrote and he showed a song chorded out with all the notes for the chords posted and the bass notes posted and then he showed the same song in fake book style and he stated that they are the exact same thing but I do not understand how. Is there any theory behind this or maybe someone could get 4hisglory to explain it to me.

I was classically trained and have just realized there are fake books and lead sheets. I know some of you are laughing but I wanted people to know this just incase my question seems stupid.

Right know my teacher custom makes all of my music for me and it is a fake book style only all the inversions are listed and any bass changes are listed as well and then all I have to do is play the base how I want such as walking bass or simple left hand pattern. The melody notes are listed as well inbetween the chords. It makes it easy to play the music since I have tons of chords memorized but I would like to be able to walk in somewhere and be able to play if all I had was a lead sheet or fake book. Can anyone help.

[playhear]

With a lead sheet, a lot of times the pianist/keyboardist is not carrying the melody. It may be the singer or saxophonist for example. Many times also, the pianist/keyboardist is not responsible for the bass either! The lead sheet format is perfect here. The pianist can play the chord with the left, not necessarily with the root in the bass. The right hand can be left free to wander in and out of the melody, or to solo as desired.

Otherwise, the lead sheet is way more efficient and way easier to read than standard sheet music. When I see the chord name above, my mind is at ease. My hand (left or right) automatically knows what to do, with practice of course. I don’t have to look at the individual notes to figure out the voicing. If I don’t have to carry the melody (or if I can’t sight read it), I usually like to play the root in the left and the chord with my right. I’ll be conscious of the relevant key so that I can sneak in random notes.

Experiment a bit. Enjoy the freedom. For example, when you see “C” in a lead sheet, you can play around with substituting a Cmaj7, Cmaj9 or Cmaj13 instead. When you see “C7”, you can play around substituting C9, C13, Gb7, Gb9 or Gb13 instead. Try it out! You'll see. Generally, a lead sheet is far more forgiving than a classical score.

[sjonathan02]

Experiment a bit. Enjoy the freedom. For example, when you see “C” in a lead sheet, you can play around with substituting a Cmaj7, Cmaj9 or Cmaj13 instead. When you see “C7”, you can play around substituting C9, C13, Gb7, Gb9 or Gb13 instead. Try it out! You'll see. Generally, a lead sheet is far more forgiving than a classical score.

Now see, there's some stuff that I wouldn't think to do. I'll have to try that out sometime.

But, here's a question, why would one substitute one chord for another?

Just wondering.
Jonathan

[playhear]

But, here's a question, why would one substitute one chord for another?

Substitute to give the song your own flavor and maybe add a little color! It’s totally optional and definitely not necessary.

[psychopianoman]

I guess I will just have to be patient and practice and wait. I know my teacher can and will teach me all of this as I have seen and heard some of her students play without any music material at all.

She tells me it will come with time as we go over her material and as I am introduced to new ideas and principles. As I learn stuff it is left off of the music she wrights so that I play it by ear and not by sight and so that I will learn to experiment.

Next week I am supposed to bring a tape recorder with me to record the songs she plays and then I am supposed to play it like she does but with my own added ideas so she is pushing me to the creative end but I think my mind is stuck to sheet music. It took me about three months to be able to play without a time signature, I thought I was going to make her crazy having to count and sing with my horrible playing just to break me from that habbit. She always smiles and looks happy though so that is a plus, I just thank God I found a spirit filled teacher that specializes in gospel music.

Thanks for the postings.

[playhear]

I’m currently practicing on taking lead sheets to the next level. I print out song lyrics with a number at each chord change. It’s about the simplest form of a lead sheet I can imagine. Here’s an example:

...1..............................4.... ...........1...
A-mazing Grace, how sweet the sound…


That line may appear simple, but it's packed with information. The “1” means the 1 chord. The “4” means the 4 chord etc. For example, if playing in F, that first "1" might be played as

(L.H. / R.H.)

F / A C F

The "4" might be played as

Bb / Bb D F

The second "1" might be played as

F / F A C

Granted, you have to develop the ability to play the melody by ear. But that’s what I want! I don’t want to be stuck reading a sheet for the melody. I want to feel it. The beauty of this type of lead sheet is that it’s easily adaptable to all twelve keys. You really have to do your homework beforehand to be able to use this method. Also, I’m not limited to these simple chords. I can throw in 7ths, 9ths, etc., wherever I feel it. I can do some funky basslines with my left as desired. At the same time, the page is not cluttered with stuff.

[psychopianoman]

Granted, you have to develop the ability to play the melody by ear. But that’s what I want! I don’t want to be stuck reading a sheet for the melody. I want to feel it. The beauty of this type of lead sheet is that it’s easily adaptable to all twelve keys. You really have to do your homework beforehand to be able to use this method. Also, I’m not limited to these simple chords. I can throw in 7ths, 9ths, etc., wherever I feel it. I can do some funky basslines with my left as desired. At the same time, the page is not cluttered with stuff.

That is exactly what she is doing with me now, at the begining the sheets are full of notes and chords and melody notes and the bass was only single notes and octaves.

Everything is slowly being extracted to where I just have chords, I agree with you, I do not want to be stuck to any kind of music, it is much more enjoyable being able to play what you feel. I have only been under her care for about 4 1/2 months and I have come a long way so I am not complaining, I am just impatient I guess. I need to work on my 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths. I have not used them very much and in sight reading you do not hit those kind of chords untill you have been playing awhile.

It sounds like you are figuring it out, meanwhile I will keep paying my teacher.

[playhear]

You're lucky to find a teacher to take you through that process! Stick with him/her.

[T-Block]

playhear wrote:

I’m currently practicing on taking lead sheets to the next level. I print out song lyrics with a number at each chord change. It’s about the simplest form of a lead sheet I can imagine. Here’s an example:

...1..............................4.... ...........1...
A-mazing Grace, how sweet the sound…

That is a good startegy playhear.  Also, since you got the numbers down, you can add chords between the numbers.  Like, in your example, before you play the 4 chord, you can do a whole lot of stuff.  Here is what I mean:

Key Eb  LH/RH

A-
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1) ma-
C / Bb-Eb-G (6)
B / A-D-F# (#5) zing
Bb / Ab-Db-F (5) grace
Eb / G-Db-F (1)
A / G-B-Db-Eb (#4) how
Ab / Eb-Ab-C (4)

You see what I mean, I just packed in 6-#5-5-1-#4 between your original 1 and 4.  Just get the ground work laid, then play around in the middle.  This is where being familiar with progressions come in.  Check my post on Explaining Progressions for more help.  It will give u guidlines on which chords come before and after certain chords.

[playhear]

T-Block, I read your Explaining Progressions, thanks. I have a question for you. Above, you use sharp passing chords, for example, the #5 and the #4. Is that a trick you stumbled upon by just trying stuff out? I ask because your Explaining Progressions doesn’t mention it.

By the way, I haven’t tried out those progressions yet. I’m sure it’s funk though. Generally, when do you like to use a sharp passing chord? What kind of feel do you think it gives to a song?

[T-Block]

When I use the terms #5 and #4, it is describing the bass note in relation to the key I'm in.  Since that note doesn't lie natrually in the key, i sort of "force" it to be a part of the key temporarily.  Anyways, my other post on progressions don't talk about it cuz it wasn't in the book.  That post is talking about what classical composers like Mozart and Beethoven did way back in the day to come up with their music.  It's not a totally new ballgame nowadays, but things is changing real quick cuz the old stuff is getting revamped and u gotta get with it or you will be stuck in the dark ages.  Does that clear it up for you?


I like to use "sharp" passing chords when I am going from 6 to 5 to 1.  It's not really a sharp passing chord, it is just a chord with the bass note having a sharp in it, which announces that it is not a part of the key normally, but in this case, it is an honorary member.

[playhear]

T-Block, I thank you for the clarification. I just said "sharp passing chord" because I had never seen it before. So, ignore the name I slapped on it. That name was just the best way for me to describe it.

[playhear]

I like to use "sharp" passing chords when I am going from 6 to 5 to 1.  It's not really a sharp passing chord, it is just a chord with the bass note having a sharp in it, which announces that it is not a part of the key normally, but in this case, it is an honorary member.

I understand how it's not part of the key. However, you say the chord is not sharped, but that's exactly what you did with the 5 chord. You took the entire 5 chord, sharped each note and played the sharped chord right before you laid down the 5.

However, with the 4 chord, it appears your just sharping the bass note, but otherwise I'm not sure how to explain fully what's going on with the #4.

[T-Block]

playhear wrote:

I understand how it's not part of the key. However, you say the chord is not sharped, but that's exactly what you did with the 5 chord. You took the entire 5 chord, sharped each note and played the sharped chord right before you laid down the 5.

However, with the 4 chord, it appears your just sharping the bass note, but otherwise I'm not sure how to explain fully what's going on with the #4.

Playhear, man u are really over-analyzing now.  I hope u don't take too much offense to that, but sometimes u can get so deep into the theory side that u make it hard to enjoy it.  Let me explain it like this, the reason why the chords isn't a really "sharped" chord cuz I named the chord in relation to the bass note.  I mean, would you see Cb / A-D-F# in a music book?  No, you would see it like this, B / A-D-F#.  So, try to get the idea of it being a "sharped" chord out of your mind, it will just confuse you.  The bass note is sharped to signify it's not part of the key, but the chord is named in relation to the bass note, that's all.  Don't try to get too deep to where you get confused and lost.  Make it easy on yourself man, have fun  :lol: !!!  They are just filler chords that u can use if you want to keep your hands moving.  

Another reason why it is not really a "sharped" chord cuz I could write it another way using flats. Watch:

Original Version

A-
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1) ma-
C / Bb-Eb-G (6)
B / A-D-F# (#5) zing
Bb / Ab-Db-F (5) grace
Eb / G-Db-F (1)
A / G-B-Db-Eb (#4) how
Ab / Eb-Ab-C (4)

New Version

Key Eb LH/RH

A-
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1) ma-
C / Bb-Eb-G (6)
Cb / A-D-Gb (6b) zing
Bb / Ab-Db-F (5) grace
Eb / G-Db-F (1)
Bbb / G-B-Db-Eb (5b) how
Ab / Eb-Ab-C (4)

You see that?  Now, it's a 6-b6-5-1-b5 progression.  Same sound, different
note names.  I guess you'll say, now u playing "flat" chords, LOL!!!  :lol:

[playhear]

Playhear, man u are really over-analyzing now.  I hope u don't take too much offense to that, but sometimes u can get so deep into the theory side that u make it hard to enjoy it.  Let me explain it like this, the reason why the chords isn't a really "sharped" chord cuz I named the chord in relation to the bass note.  I mean, would you see Cb / A-D-F# in a music book?  No, you would see it like this, B / A-D-F#.  So, try to get the idea of it being a "sharped" chord out of your mind, it will just confuse you.  The bass note is sharped to signify it's not part of the key, but the chord is named in relation to the bass note, that's all.  Don't try to get too deep to where you get confused and lost.  Make it easy on yourself man, have fun  :lol: !!!  They are just filler chords that u can use if you want to keep your hands moving.  

Another reason why it is not really a "sharped" chord cuz I could write it another way using flats. Watch:

Original Version

A-
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1) ma-
C / Bb-Eb-G (6)
B / A-D-F# (#5) zing
Bb / Ab-Db-F (5) grace
Eb / G-Db-F (1)
A / G-B-Db-Eb (#4) how
Ab / Eb-Ab-C (4)

New Version

Key Eb LH/RH

A-
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1) ma-
C / Bb-Eb-G (6)
Cb / A-D-Gb (6b) zing
Bb / Ab-Db-F (5) grace
Eb / G-Db-F (1)
Bbb / G-B-Db-Eb (5b) how
Ab / Eb-Ab-C (4)

You see that?  Now, it's a 6-b6-5-1-b5 progression.  Same sound, different
note names.  I guess you'll say, now u playing "flat" chords, LOL!!!  :lol:

OK, I got you. Let's forget about the name. I just want to be able to understand everything so that I can apply the chords you lay out to other keys, take out various notes, etc. I tend not to use chords if I'm just mimicking others without an understanding.

In the example above, I fully understand what you're doing with the 6b...done. However, I don't know what's going on with the 5b.

I know you're an analytical guy because I've seen many of your posts where you've gone off analyzing stuff. If there's no explanation for the notes in that 5b chord, that's fair enough. We can just leave it at that.

By the way, I'm not naturally gifted in music. So, I have to analyze, sorry.

[playhear]

A / G-B-Db-Eb (#4) how

Here's what I'm saying. In that chord, is the Eb note a mistake? If that note should actually be E, everything makes complete sense and I probably would never asked you anything about your post.

thanks man

[sjonathan02]

A / G-B-Db-Eb (#4) how

Here's what I'm saying. In that chord, is the Eb note a mistake? If that note should actually be E, everything makes complete sense and I probably would never asked you anything about your post.

thanks man

Here's how I understand it, and I pray that this helps. The chord itself is (for the most part) an A7b5 (although, for me it would be a A9b5 because of the B in there, but that's another conversation).

[T-Block]

playhear wrote:

Here's what I'm saying. In that chord, is the Eb note a mistake? If that note should actually be E, everything makes complete sense and I probably would never asked you anything about your post.

Nope, the Eb is not a mistake, it's supposed to be there cuz I am in the key of Eb.  If I play a natural E, then I would be in the key of E, and that chord would be a 4 chord.  I know you want it to be a natural E so you can call it an A7 chord right?  Well, even with the Eb, it can still be called an A7, with a flat 3rd I guess.  Did you get a chance to play it yet?  If you play it, then you will hear that it sounds right.  The reason why I have #4 is because the 4th scale degree is raised up 1/2 step.  Since I'm in Eb, the Ab gets raised 1/2 step becoming a natural A.  The chord is something I figured out listening to some CDs.   It's like when you playing preacher chords and before you play 4, you have that filler chord.  Here is an example:

Bb / Db-Ab-C-Eb (5)
A / G-B-Db-Eb (#4) or A / Db-G-B-Eb (#4)
Ab / Gb-Bb-C-Eb (4)
A / Gb-A-C-Eb (#4)
Bb / F-Ab-C-Eb (5)
Bb / Ab-Bb-D-Gb (5)
Eb / Db-G-C-Eb (1)

If you have ever heard Smokie Norful's "I Need You Now" off his Limited Edition CD, there is a part in the song where he goes off into the original
"I Need Thee O."  In that song before the part "O bless me now...," he plays that #4 filler chord.  Remember, #4 refers to the bass note, but the chord can be anything that sounds good with it.  

Is it getting any clearer now?  When it comes to stuff like this, I don't really try to analyze every little chord, I just translate it to the other keys and figure it out later.  I mean I love theory and I do like to know and understand what I'm playing, but sometimes, I have to just let it go and play it.  You know, if it wasn't for you asking me questions like this, i probably wouldn't be practicing my theory like I should.  Thanks for keeping on toes man!!!  :lol:

[playhear]

Thanks T-Block! That makes sense.  I'm paid to be annoying, no lie.  :lol:

[diverse379]

Let me say that all again

to build a ninth on a chord tone build a seventh chord on your chords third

if you want a C9 then you you play a E half diminished or full diminished over the C
if you want a major 9 you play a E minor 7th over the C

if you want a Minor ninth you build a Eb major 7 over the C

get it you can also do the same with the 5th