how to get phat voicings instantly

[diverse379]

Bb, Ab/ A C Eb Gb  as you wrote

this is the related diminished But i do not use this as a chord like it is written by you above Those are available notes that can be superimposed along with the notes of a Bb-7 not even the dominant 7 as you have it written my examples were in Db

even in the key of f it would be a Bb major 7 not a Bb7



Its used in many  other ways but I was not advocating that that be used as  a chord

Bb F Ab/ Ab B D F

these are the roots of the family of seventh chords  you rote them like a chord but I dont play that as a chord

 the notes to the right of the slash are  the available triads or seventh chords that you can apply over that shel

those are notes not chords they are not written to be played as  individual notes  they are written to show you the availabvle chords when you see me write something out like you did above that is a chord

I never wrote what you did above

Look at this list again it answers all the questions you asked me

Db uses triads B, D, F, Ab

Eb, uses triads Db E, G, Bb

F uses triads Eb, Gb, A, C,

F# uses triads E, G, Bb Db

Ab uses Triads B, D, F, Ab

Bb uses B, D, F, Ab

C uses A, F#, C, Eb

1. simply go to the dominant of the chord you want to phatten

2. build a diminished on its third degree

3. then lower that diminished chord a half step

thats it three steps and you have your family of sevenths


all the questions that you have aslked me are contained right here if you insist on looking for a shorter way to understand this then you are just causing yourself confusion

sorry you didnt like the chords I guess it is not for everyone

but the notes are correct the

I wrote you a chart you really should read that all the chords are listed

[Eggs]

OK... here are a couple of progressions I came up with.... the notes I bolded are using the Barry Harris stuff ...
everything is in the key of Db...

LH/RH

Db F Ab / Db F Ab
C Ab / C Eb Ab
Bb F / Eb Ab Db  ---- quartal
Bb Ab / D Ab Db
F# E / Ab Bb E
Ab Db / Ab Bb Eb
Db / F Ab Db

... this next progression is similar, but I used some stuff I learned from J. Hartwell, along with the Barry Harris stuff, and I tried
to get that urban contemporary feel with it...

LH/RH

Ab C Db F / Eb Ab C   ----- I'm crossing my thumbs here
Bb F / Eb Ab Db    ---- same here (quartal)
Eb Bb / A Db F#   ---- same here
D D / C F# A             ---- tritone substitution for Ab
Db / Ab Db Eb F

What do you think?


Eggs

[diverse379]

some really interesting Ideas
i like your use of the quartal voicing it is surprising

I would play the first example this way

Db F Ab / Db F Ab
C Ab / C Eb Ab
Bb F / Eb Ab Db  ---- quartal
Bb Ab/ Eb, F, A, C, 
Eb Bb/F F# Bb Db
Eb Bb/ E F# A C#
Ab F#/ F# Bb Db
Ab F#/ Ab C Eb
Ab F#/ Ab B D F
Ab F#/ A C# E F#
Ab F# /B D F Ab
Db F/ C Eb F Ab

the last series going to the Db are passing chords in fact most of the approach chords are passing chords




Your second example

Ab C Db F / Eb Ab C   ----
Bb F / Eb Ab Db    ----
Eb Bb / F# Bb Eb  ----
D D / G C E       ----
Db / Ab C Eb

I tried to keep your basic idea in tact I tend to go with voice leading when I can
so i kept the voices within close mivements

I like your ideas they are bold and have an unpredictable development

I tried to keep the structure more in line with the overal theory and how it would apply to traditional harmony

Therefore i styed away from choices that were too unusual.

but you continue to do wha you do

because it is all;
revelant

[sjonathan02]

Bb, Ab/ A C Eb Gb  as you wrote

this is the related diminished But i do not use this as a chord like it is written by you above Those are available notes that can be superimposed along with the notes of a Bb-7 not even the dominant 7 as you have it written my examples were in Db

even in the key of f it would be a Bb major 7 not a Bb7



Its used in many  other ways but I was not advocating that that be used as  a chord

Bb F Ab/ Ab B D F

these are the roots of the family of seventh chords  you rote them like a chord but I dont play that as a chord

 the notes to the right of the slash are  the available triads or seventh chords that you can apply over that shel

those are notes not chords they are not written to be played as  individual notes  they are written to show you the availabvle chords when you see me write something out like you did above that is a chord

I never wrote what you did above

Look at this list again it answers all the questions you asked me

Db uses triads B, D, F, Ab

Eb, uses triads Db E, G, Bb

F uses triads Eb, Gb, A, C,

F# uses triads E, G, Bb Db

Ab uses Triads B, D, F, Ab

Bb uses B, D, F, Ab

C uses A, F#, C, Eb

1. simply go to the dominant of the chord you want to phatten

2. build a diminished on its third degree

3. then lower that diminished chord a half step

So, I came up with this:

Eb Bb/ E Ab B
Ab Eb/ Db Gb Bb
Db Ab/ C Eb F
Ab, Bb (play as single notes using L.H.)
Db Ab/ B Eb Gb
G D/ A B Eb F
Gb Db/ Ab Bb Db F
Does this utilize what we have been discussing?

[diverse379]

Yes I believe you got it

and those changes are

HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow I was beginining to wonder about you boy but you created some henenly changes right there

The only thing I would do different would be to voicelead the right hand more so it is not jumping around with those parallell fifhts but the sound is still tight even with that


I am really impressed

could you share your thought process with this one?

And isnt it cool to be able to play something this hot and be able to explain exactly how you did it?


You really busted my chops on this one but it was worth it to hear what you came up with thank you so much for sharing that with me.

[sjonathan02]

My thought process was simply to utilize what we've been
discussing....correctly. As for the voice leading, If you add an Ab to the third
chord in this progression, that might give you an better sound melodically ( the
reason I left it out is because I try not to double notes too much; no reason
why, I just don't' like playing same notes in both hands).
Continuing with my thought process, in the second part of this progression (the
last three chords), quite simply I like moving down in half-steps. I
don't know why, I just like the sound it is so hot to me. But, as they say to
each his own.

So, there my rationale. Does it make any sense? BTW, I'm glad you liked the chords; and I'm tryin' to tell ya, if I can completely understand a concept, then I can try and use it. That was the reason for all of the questions.

[diverse379]

Well Amen you showed me something

thanks for all your effort

[sjonathan02]

So, I came up with this:

Eb Bb/ E Ab B
Ab Eb/ Db Gb Bb
Db Ab/ C Eb F
Ab, Bb (play as single notes using L.H.)
Db Ab/ B Eb Gb
G D/ A B Eb F
Gb Db/ Ab Bb Db F
Does this utilize what we have been discussing?

Ok, after giving some thought (and some encouragement) I'm going to try and explain what I did with each chord using the Barry Harris method that Diverse has been so gracious enough to share. I'm really guessing at the key for this progression when I say that it's in Db



Eb Bb/ E Ab B This chord utilizes an E major chord (out of the diminished family of Eb; Db E G Bb) on top of an Eb chord (you may even be able to use the Eb7 shell).

Ab Eb/ Db Gb Bb This chord uses an inverted Gb major chord (out of the diminished family of Ab) on top of an Ab chord

Db Ab/ C Eb F This is a simple Db maj7 chord

Ab, Bb just some passing tones

Ab Eb/ B Eb Gb This chord uses a B maj chord (out of the diminished family of Ab) on top of an Ab chord (I changed it from the original chord up top)
G D/ A B Eb F This is a G9#5 chord. (I'm using it as a substitution for Db)
Gb Db/ Ab Bb Db F This is a simple Gbmaj9 chord to end the progression.


I hope this helps someone.

[diverse379]

You are truly global now Doc absolutely global

[Eggs]

Hey Sjonathan,

I like your stuff, but then I usually like your posts. 

Anyway... Diverse,

I didn't fully catch on to the dominant thingy:      Ab uses Triads B, D, F, Ab

I didn't realize it actually ends up with a 1,m3rd,flat5, and a 6. (I'm not looking for a SHORCUT!  )
compared to a dom7,flat2nd,maj3rd and perfect5th on the other degrees.  Right?

I would have done my progressions a little differently... I'll see what else I can come up with.

I want to keep up!  ... (sounding like Cosell) -> "It aint OVA... It aint OVA!"   

Eggs

[sjonathan02]

Hey Sjonathan,

I like your stuff, but then I usually like your posts. 

Anyway... Diverse,

I didn't fully catch on to the dominant thingy:      Ab uses Triads B, D, F, Ab

I didn't realize it actually ends up with a 1,m3rd,flat5, and a 6. (I'm not looking for a SHORCUT!  )
compared to a dom7,flat2nd,maj3rd and perfect5th on the other degrees.  Right?

I would have done my progressions a little differently... I'll see what else I can come up with.

I want to keep up!  ... (sounding like Cosell) -> "It aint OVA... It aint OVA!"   

Eggs

*sounding like Mickey from the "Rocky" movies* C'mon, ya pug. Get in dere! You can do it, cuz Mickey luvs ya!! 

[sjonathan02]

Hey Sjonathan,

I like your stuff, but then I usually like your posts. 
Eggs

Thank you, Eggs. I appreciate that.

[CESharp]

Well ya'll go right ahead and have that theory lesson.  It does my heart good to see someone actually learn this stuff from this long lecture.
I'm not there yet and all of this looks foreign to me but.............ONE DAY!

[diverse379]

Thank you ceesharp 'and I know you fronting over there I know you can play something fierce I dont sleep on anybody from the midwest

[jlewis]

Been looking at this thread  for 3 days,  This is good stuff.    I like the Harris concept a lot, it also gives you some scales you can run over  ( with this  newly constructed chord).


I also like the concept that Elio described ( where you lower the entire chord, from the related diminished chord, instead of just one note within the chord).  This doesn't create quite as much dissonance as the harris concept, but the Harris concept chords are quite nice as well.


With Elio's method, you end up creating ( what looks like to me) an 11th chord with a flat 9.  However you dont get as many alterations over the shell with Elio's method as you do with the method that diverse379 described.


I'm gonna add both techniques into vocabulary. This is some good stuff.


Now I know this has been a long thread,  but I need somebody to re-explain the difference between the related diminished ( I think I have this down) vs the relative diminished Family (this I still don't  quite  understand the concept).


Somebody hollerback at me  and I'm gonna post a clip where I use some of this stuff in a couple of songs.

jlewis

[diverse379]

Ah just hanging in the background huh

look at the following steps step two  is the related diminished

Step three is the diminished that you use to build triad on

The relative diminished can be used to do 1-2-1 harmony and can also share its chord tones with the parent chord to add tensions

The family of seventh chords are the four seventh chords that get born out of the related diminished chord

for example A diminshed gives birth to
Ab7 B7 D7 And F7

because as you lower any of the notes in the A diminished that note becoms the root of a 7th chord

Looking forward to your developments

1. simply go to the dominant of the chord you want to phatten

2. build a diminished on its third degree

3. then lower that diminished chord a half step

thats it three steps and you have your family of sevenths

[jlewis]

so what you are saying is that I can substitute any chord  ( from the family of chords that is created by lowering each one of the tones in the related diminished chord) and that I can play any one of those new chords  over the shell that I'm maintaining in my left hand (sometimes I use the full triad in my left but thats just me).



Is this correct?


thanks

man I got to start paying 4HisGlory for that premium membership,  this stuff is worth money

jlewis

[sjonathan02]

so what you are saying is that I can substitute any chord  ( from the family of chords that is created by lowering each one of the tones in the related diminished chord) and that I can play any one of those new chords  over the shell that I'm maintaining in my left hand (sometimes I use the full triad in my left but thats just me).



Is this correct?


thanks

man I got to start paying 4HisGlory for that premium membership,  this stuff is worth money

jlewis

Yessir, that's about right; as I know it to be.

[jlewis]

Okay, Here is my video.


I couldn't sleep ( partly because I got a head cold and my nose is stopped up) so I decided to go ahead  an put this out.

I mis-named 2 of the modified chords in this video so I correctly name them here.

I called a chord that I used my "own" modification on a   Fminor9  it is actually a Gminor9

I called a chord a Bb dim 6.   It is actually a Bb Sus 6 and I resolve it back to the Bb major chord.

Everything else  I thik is named accurately.  After I shot the video I noticed that my hands were covering the keys, but I name  everything as I play it so I think it should be Ok


this was a late night adventure  and I'll be the first to admit that I'm no singer, so don't trip on my vocals,  I'm talking through them "Donald Lawerence Style"

I basically used the method that diverse379 has outlined to modify some of the changes in the song  from the basic  structure.

the song is "God is Here" by Martha Munizzi.



Let me know if this helps somebody.


  here is the link

http://www.webtest.stpbc.com/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=32&page=view&catid=3&PageNo=1&key=1&hit=1

jlewis

[diverse379]

Yo jlewis you did my heart proud man

that was a cool video clip  you pronounced my name wrong like a million times but thats all good.

I liked what you did but you didnt tell them that even that fminor nine you qhattended on your own could have borrowed the g from the realted diminished

remember the related diminished can be used to offer the sus note the nine and the flat six and the major 7

butr you did good with your chords and explaining it

I wouldnt have used octave shells though one five shells 7th shells o ninth or third shells

but enough of criticising a very noble work

thank you for sharing that i hope when people see how easy it is they will build on it

you did make it seem like you could get a phat chord instantly.

I want to do a video clip too.  I guess I need a website first r