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Author Topic: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?  (Read 1436 times)

Offline bishopcole

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WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« on: March 09, 2006, 07:51:38 PM »
Why does it seem like musicians that have a God-gift to play(TALKING ABOUT ORGAN PLAYERS) sound, flow, and play so much better than some of us that has went through theory, like myself, wether it was a little or a lot of theory? Maybe this sounds crazy but I want to know how my brothers a sisters feel on this topic. I have always wondered about this for years, now lend me your thoughts! Bishop Lamar Cole
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Offline ChicagoFlava

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2006, 12:33:48 AM »
hey an how are you i can answer this for you quite simply, being a person on both ends. I was gifted with a natural ability to play at an early age well beyond my years. My gift was nourished, and i went to a performing arts school from 3rd grade through high school. The answer is simple. There are 3 types of people in the world. A. those that are born with  a special gift. B. those that are not  as gifted but have learned from the theory end and have developed into a very great player, and those who have 50% of both a natural ability, and   learning the thoery end. however the one with the natural gift plays from a special ability that just plainly put, some of us dont and WONT have, its what makes us and every gift unique. The bible says let every man use his gift in measure to it was given to him. so there are measures of how much each has, and plainly put, some have more than others. Not saying that a person that dosent have as much as others cant be very good, you'll have to work harder at it than a person with natural ability. Mozart was a musical  GENIUS for lack of a better word. He was envied for his ability by many, at a early age i believe 7 he wrote his first symphony, when most men during that time was well into thier 20's and 30', 40, doing this. Bethoveen was 90% deaf in both ears when he wrote his sonata's. with 40 different parts. THATS A PURE GITFT FROM GOD!! not saying that other men of this era wasnt gifted, there are plenty that was very good composers of the era. But these possesed a certain special talent that was given that is not equal to all men lol. so someone that is extremely GIFTED will always have an edge  over some of us who are not as gifted as others.

But on the contrary to give hope to some i will say that being extemely gifted in some ways is a terrible handicap to some. and you ask how?? ill tell you. Most gifted people tend not to work as hard at developing  like learning theory, scales, practicing alot, because they know they are gifted. Think im lying most major musicians i know that work in the industry arent extremely gifted musicians, they are very hard workers that have learned eveything they could possibly know about thier craft, which gives them the edge. I went to college with a guy, who it wasnt discovered until his sophomore year of college he couldnt read. The guy was memorizing 6-8 pages of mozart by ear, and would sit in class and look at the page like he was reading TALK ABOUT A GIFT! it wasnt discovered un til my professor caught him mess up on a pass, asked him to go back to bar 57 and play the pass again and he couldnt find it.!! and you ask why a guy this gifted couldnt read?? he relied strictly off of his ability so he felt no need to learn theory and  sight reading, because he had such a gift, he could learn anything by ear and memory. That same guy is playing at a coffee house now and doin od and in gigs, while my classmates are working for major artists, and award show bands and touring, because they dont have an awesome gift but they learned the craft from the technical side (theory  chords chart reading etc...) so it falls both ways. Just work your gift you have, learn all you can about your craft, and be the best YOU, you can be, and nothing else matters.  hope this helps stay encouraged man!

Offline diverse379

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2006, 07:02:08 AM »
Very well put

I will also say that theory hinders you as much as it helps you

I t gives you preconceived notions about where to go instead of simply exploring and listening to the music to tell you where to go next

each voice of each chord wants to go somewhere but us theory cats dont hear the voices because the voices in our heads are saying 2-5-1 0r modulate to that key

some of the most creative musicians ( like Butch heyward ) doesent know a major 7 from a major 9 or 13 whatever

but he can play it all

Now Butch says if you really want to play well pray every day read your word every day

I only disagree on one point when the brother says some will never have it

Not that it is not true but I wouldnt repeat that because we never know how the move of God will manifest

Right now I feel second rate but I remember about three years ago I was playing in a service The holy spirit stated to guide my right hand and I dont know what I was playing but people were falling out on the floor a deacon started jumping p and down ( really high it was wild ) and when I looked at my right ha\nd to see what I was playing it stopped the guy plaing the drums which was the rap producer Rock from hollis queens his mouth was just open he was in disbelief so was I the whole church was consumed

So Sometimes it is our intellect which impedes the move of God

Sometimes I do my best playing when I dont know what Iam going to play that is when I am free

And Maybe that is when the holy spirit can increase when we decrease.

I believe the truth lies somewhere within in this and what Chicago Flava wrote.

Like gifts of the Holy spirit your playing can heal if that gift is in you
It can deliver if that gift is in you .

It can speak into peoples hearts the Word of God like interpretation of tongues

But the Holy spirit muyst be in you to really rise to the top of your ability,.

or should I say go beyond your ability.
To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline bishopcole

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2006, 10:47:52 AM »
Hey I'm loving this! I will say AMEN to both of you Men of God! Come on people let me hear you sound off! Bishop Cole
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Offline c3hamby

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2006, 10:54:44 AM »
I went to college with a guy, who it wasnt discovered until his sophomore year of college he couldnt read. The guy was memorizing 6-8 pages of mozart by ear, and would sit in class and look at the page like he was reading TALK ABOUT A GIFT! it wasnt discovered un til my professor caught him mess up on a pass, asked him to go back to bar 57 and play the pass again and he couldnt find it.!! and you ask why a guy this gifted couldnt read??

The great jazz organist Jimmy Smith did the same thing in his piano lessons in music school.  The way he got around it was that he would have his music teacher play a passage, and then he would play it back dead on. 

"I sure hated to let her know I couldn't read music", was his quote in an interview regarding this. 
Thanks for letting me hang with you guys!

Offline Bruh Kell

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2006, 10:19:36 AM »
My opinion is that you spend all that time in theory classes (not bashin' 'cause I'm doin' it too) learning stuff that you don't really like all that much (can I git a witness) whereas musicians that come up in church learn music a different way. They learn and grow by having a repitoire (I hope that's right) of chords. So while we're sitting in class learning to read and learning to play Mozart/Beethoven etc. they just jump up on the instruments and play whatever they want by ear. :'( :-[ :-\
I Love You!!!

Offline diverse379

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2006, 02:27:21 PM »
I would agree with the point about doing stuff that may not be that interesting

but I learned my theory from books so I never learned anything I doidnt need or want at the moment

thei thing that find is that we tend to over think instead of feel with our heart our head gets i n the way read my post in the I think serious musicians room on find a student to teach you I talk about how one of my student s began to use his ear to transpose and he did it 35 minutes less time then when he used theory

once you know you always will think but sometimes you need to reach for sounds with no thought about whether you are playing a third of a fourth structure of whether you have a flat nine or sharp five

also I tend to not spend enough time transposing when you transpose you open your ear

and lets not forget some people especially those gifted musicians have perfect ptich like Melvin has perfect pitch Charles minor has perfect pitch and I believe butch heyward has pefect pitch when you have that you know exactly what notes are being played just by hearing it you dont need to test it on a keyboard

you just hear what notes are in a chord just like a mother can hear wihich one of her five children just said a bad word even though all five of them were talking at once
To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline bishopcole

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2006, 09:11:40 PM »
My opinion is that you spend all that time in theory classes (not bashin' 'cause I'm doin' it too) learning stuff that you don't really like all that much (can I git a witness) whereas musicians that come up in church learn music a different way. They learn and grow by having a repitoire (I hope that's right) of chords. So while we're sitting in class learning to read and learning to play Mozart/Beethoven etc. they just jump up on the instruments and play whatever they want by ear. :'( :-[ :-\

Yes I agree to disagree! you will better yourself if you get as much theory as possible! I would not have gone as far in my music if I had not have taken theory. Now don't take me wrong, I have learned most of my "SWEETESS STUFF" from cats that cannot call not one chord, but will play you in a stupor!!! I am just saying never burn a bridge! Bishop Lamar Cole   
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Offline ferrente

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2006, 10:37:54 PM »
I have only been playing for about 41/2 years. I learn to play real quick. But, I also took college courses and personal tutor. I learn to play so quick because the Lord told me he wanted me to play. At first I tried to run from what the Lord had told me to do. But, he continue to tell me he wanted me to play. I did not understand why he wanted me to Play.
After I started to play I learn my scales, theory and how to read real quickly. I think when the Lord calls you to do something, anything that he wants you to do, it will sound better and work out better than any other way. This is not to say that someone who plays because he/she just wants to play is not a good musician as well. But, I think you all know what I am talking about. I play daily and ask the Lord to continue to Bless my music and to continue guide my hands and feet that I may be the musician that he wants me to be. I thank the Lord for Blessing me to be at the Level that I am. I know that I did not do It and that God did it all. Now I have been trying to help as many new musicians as I can.

Bishopcole this is a very good topic.
Bless You
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Offline Big_Al

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2006, 07:34:13 AM »
Bishop Cole-I've studied Jazz thoery for four years and recontly crossed over to GOSPEL. Boy I was lost. My playing has improved once I ask to LORD to help me (period).

My flow, as you put it, is improving and I owe it to the LORD Jesus Christ.

Once you give it to God, and let Him teach you, He will show you how Gospel music should be played in His Temple.

Giod Bless you in your music ministry.

-Al
All That I Am, I Owe to the LORD.

Offline bishopcole

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2006, 09:49:04 AM »
Bishop Cole-I've studied Jazz thoery for four years and recontly crossed over to GOSPEL. Boy I was lost. My playing has improved once I ask to LORD to help me (period).

My flow, as you put it, is improving and I owe it to the LORD Jesus Christ.

Once you give it to God, and let Him teach you, He will show you how Gospel music should be played in His Temple.

Giod Bless you in your music ministry.

-Al

Thank you my brother,I will recieve this!! I feel as you do,even though I have had some theory training, I would not have gone as far without God's " SPECIAL MUSIC THEORY" which was the best theory that I've ever had!!! Bishop Cole 
"Stay in God Always"  - Bishop Lamar Cole
"It's not about the Music, it's about the Ministry"

Offline bishopcole

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Re: WHY IS THIS SO OR NOT SO?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2006, 09:51:10 AM »
I have only been playing for about 41/2 years. I learn to play real quick. But, I also took college courses and personal tutor. I learn to play so quick because the Lord told me he wanted me to play. At first I tried to run from what the Lord had told me to do. But, he continue to tell me he wanted me to play. I did not understand why he wanted me to Play.
After I started to play I learn my scales, theory and how to read real quickly. I think when the Lord calls you to do something, anything that he wants you to do, it will sound better and work out better than any other way. This is not to say that someone who plays because he/she just wants to play is not a good musician as well. But, I think you all know what I am talking about. I play daily and ask the Lord to continue to Bless my music and to continue guide my hands and feet that I may be the musician that he wants me to be. I thank the Lord for Blessing me to be at the Level that I am. I know that I did not do It and that God did it all. Now I have been trying to help as many new musicians as I can.

Bishopcole this is a very good topic.
Bless You

Thank you, and keep me in prayer, there are a whole lot more comimg!!  Bishop Cole
"Stay in God Always"  - Bishop Lamar Cole
"It's not about the Music, it's about the Ministry"
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