How much theory??

[under13]

I don't know how cats who have no theory do it. How do you hear a dom 9 chord (or any other chord for that matter) and know how to form it when you have no theory. 

Everybody is different. Some guys have amazing ears and they dont theory in order to play things.

[Fenix]

Everybody is different. Some guys have amazing ears and they dont theory in order to play things.

Yeah i agree that some people have amazing ears. However these are few and far between. The average musician has average ears.

My point is, without much theory it will be THAT much harder for the average musician to pick things up. Forget basic chords like C maj, say you are in a band setting and someone calls for you to play a C7 #9 #5, if you did not know theory how would you eve begin to know how to form that kind of chord? Even if you do play strictly by ear, you NEED to know theory, especially if you are just starting out. If you hear a 1-4-5 progression over the radio and wanted to play it, you need to know where the chords are in the key the song is in.

I have seen that a lot of musicians just memorize scales and chord voicings without knowing what they are doing. While it may work well for a season, you will eventually hit a brick wall. The musician who knows his theory can pick stuff up THAT much quicker.

Theory gets you where you want to go much more quickly than strict ear playing.

[under13]

That works for you. not everybody. Like you said, these are above average musicians. There are many many above average musicians out there.

NOT EVERYBODY NEEDS THEORY

[Fenix]

That works for you. not everybody. Like you said, these are above average musicians. There are many many above average musicians out there.

NOT EVERYBODY NEEDS THEORY

Go ask them, they will tell you that they had to learn theory at some point in time. I have not yet met a good musician who did not acknowledge that he or she had to learn theory at some point to understand what was going on. They may not be good at explaining it, but they know it.

My whole point is this:

Theory gets you where you want to go much more quickly than strict ear playing.

[under13]

Theory gets you where you want to go much more quickly than strict ear playing.

you. not everybody.

[Fenix]

you. not everybody.

Yes it definitely helps me, and i think it would help more people if they focused on it also.

I suppose i should have put "IMO".

[sjonathan02]

The simple fact of the matter is, there are no absolutes. It just comes down to how one wants to present themselves as a musician.

[Fenix]

The simple fact of the matter is, there are no absolutes. It just comes down to how one wants to present themselves as a musician.

Relativist Heathen!!!!!! 

Fie upon ye!!!!!!!! 

[musallio]

Relativist Heathen!!!!!! 

Fie upon ye!!!!!!!! 

hehehe..almost made me start a new thread..but last thing we need is blood in the house

[sjonathan02]

Relativist Heathen!!!!!! 

Fie upon ye!!!!!!!! 

*yawn* Yea, yea...fire. Got it. 

[diverse379]

you all know my opinion on this one
it really hasnt changed

I think you learn some theory and apply it like crazy
developing that ear

then go and learn some more theory
and go and develop that ear

i dont care whether you read
or play by theory

every one plays by ear

how else will you know if what you did sounds good
or if your reading if you played a wrong note

your ear tells you

so the ear is as important to a musician as anything else

so please find some balance in your lives
get all you can
but while you do

develop that ear

[SisterCM]

you all know my opinion on this one
it really hasnt changed

I think you learn some theory and apply it like crazy
developing that ear

then go and learn some more theory
and go and develop that ear

i dont care whether you read
or play by theory

every one plays by ear

how else will you know if what you did sounds good
or if your reading if you played a wrong note

your ear tells you

so the ear is as important to a musician as anything else

so please find some balance in your lives
get all you can
but while you do

develop that ear

gotcha!

[musallio]

Ok, some1 plz lock this thread

Point is that theory accelerates one's learning process & sets the platform for effective communication between musicians in a more than 1 man setup.
It also empowers one with a plethora of choice of combos of routes to take in their music before one can even sit before the board/ piano to play the stuff

Biggest challenge is to ensure that the theory consumed IS actually applied..otherwise it's as good as dead.

fullstop.

[T-Block]

Ok, some1 plz lock this thread

Now, why would I want to do that?  LOL. 

[seemunny]

Some people were presented with theory when they first started. Others, were not.

Some people pretty early on somehow felt the need to START learning some theory. Others, it never even occurred to them - listening to their favorite recordings was working just fine.

Music is "aural", and it's about "sound". Therefore, you obviously MUST use your hearing capacity. But, it seems that, no matter what level you're at (beginner or advanced), the inclusion of "some theory knowlege", will only take you UPWARDS.

So, the thrust of your playing will reside with:

1) your desire or excitement to play
2) your natural ear level
3) your amount of playing (practice, performing)
4) your creative mind (ala George Benson, Victor Wooten, Stanley Jordan, Theolonius Monk, John Coltrane, etc..)

Therefore, the role that "Theory" plays is - it will take those four factors and "NOURISH & ENHANCE" them, moving your musical journey along MUCH faster!

Keep in mind, there are some musicians with no theory knowledge, who's first few years start off pretty nicely, but 5, 10, 15 years later, they remain at the same level, because their ears ran out, and they have no more OPTIONS of how to improve.

"Theory can take over, when Eary runs dry". Suddenly, theory gives new life to your ears again! Theory will help prevent you from "getting stuck" by opening new doors for, and giving your ears something else to do, helping your ear to get stronger. And the cycle continues with both propelling each other ahead.

"Eary & Theory"...The Dynamic Duo

[diverse379]

Some people were presented with theory when they first started. Others, were not.

Some people pretty early on somehow felt the need to START learning some theory. Others, it never even occurred to them - listening to their favorite recordings was working just fine.

Music is "aural", and it's about "sound". Therefore, you obviously MUST use your hearing capacity. But, it seems that, no matter what level you're at (beginner or advanced), the inclusion of "some theory knowlege", will only take you UPWARDS.

So, the thrust of your playing will reside with:

1) your desire or excitement to play
2) your natural ear level
3) your amount of playing (practice, performing)
4) your creative mind (ala George Benson, Victor Wooten, Stanley Jordan, Theolonius Monk, John Coltrane, etc..)

Therefore, the role that "Theory" plays is - it will take those four factors and "NOURISH & ENHANCE" them, moving your musical journey along MUCH faster!

Keep in mind, there are some musicians with no theory knowledge, who's first few years start off pretty nicely, but 5, 10, 15 years later, they remain at the same level, because their ears ran out, and they have no more OPTIONS of how to improve.

"Theory can take over, when Eary runs dry". Suddenly, theory gives new life to your ears again! Theory will help prevent you from "getting stuck" by opening new doors for, and giving your ears something else to do, helping your ear to get stronger. And the cycle continues with both propelling each other ahead.

"Eary & Theory"...The Dynamic Duo

I love this

this is a great story to tell children


seriously though

this is a perfect way of explaining the co dependent or mutually beneficial blending of these two approaches

[chevonee]

In my opinion, every musician should know the following:

1. All your notes
2. All major and minor scales, and maybe the blues scale in every key
3. All your basic chords in every key

Of course, stuff like scale degrees, finger numbers, progressions etc. will all be encompassed or stem from those, but those are the big 3 in my opinion.  You don't have to know a whole lot of theory to play well, it is just good to have an intelligent way of expressing to others what you are doing, not just "play this right here, then run this right here...."  Unh Unh, not professional at all!!!

Co-SIGN!!!

[musallio]

I love this

this is a great story to tell children


seriously though

this is a perfect way of explaining the co dependent or mutually beneficial blending of these two approaches

& that's a RAPP!!!!

Very well said C$$

I should print this out & shove it at anyone who tells me they don't need theory.

[seemunny]

I love this.

This is a great story to tell children.

Seriously though, this is a perfect way of explaining the "co-dependent or mutually beneficial" blending of these two approaches.

& that's a RAPP!!!!

Very well said C$$

I should print this out & shove it at anyone who tells me they don't need theory.

'Preciate it brothas!

And Great Mus, go ahead, print and shove away! lol....Because i would NEVER charge you a $1000! NEVER i say!!
ONLY $996.89 cents! as a Discount!...because i'm such a Giving person!

[musallio]

....Because i would NEVER charge you a $1000! NEVER i say!!
ONLY $996.89 cents! as a Discount!...because i'm such a Giving person!

hehehe
the power of the mind...hhhm..what bout the other $3.11?..hehehe