Has Drumming become a competition rather than a ministry?

[music-samurai]

I have to be honest. It has, and hasn't all at the same time. There will always be compettion in church, and elsewhere. Think about the last revival you went to where there were multiple preachers. Even ministers do it. On monday the guy sets the bar high, and then tuesday, the next guy usually outpreaches the guy from monday, and all of yall know by friday, everybody and they mama has the holy ghost. I mean really, it happens in choirs, and the clothes we wear, and even our shouts. NOW JUST DONT TELL ME NONE OF YALL HAVE NEVER TRIED TO OUT-SHOUT YA NEIGHBOR. It's not just for competition but it's there, and to be honest, that's just how black people are, everything's a show, and I'm not condoning it, but let's be real it gonna change no time soon. Also you might think somebody is trying to outdo someone else, but in their hearts they're just giving their best to God, it all depends on how you look at it and how much you know about that person...Holla

Thats right homey! Preachers are guilty too!  Even the ushers try to compete by seeing how much gum they can take from everyone's mouth! 

[Krazy_afro_man]

Thats right homey! Preachers are guilty too!  Even the ushers try to compete by seeing how much gum they can take from everyone's mouth! 

wow....

[The Dojz]

I have to be honest. It has, and hasn't all at the same time. There will always be compettion in church, and elsewhere. Think about the last revival you went to where there were multiple preachers. Even ministers do it. On monday the guy sets the bar high, and then tuesday, the next guy usually outpreaches the guy from monday, and all of yall know by friday, everybody and they mama has the holy ghost. I mean really, it happens in choirs, and the clothes we wear, and even our shouts. NOW JUST DONT TELL ME NONE OF YALL HAVE NEVER TRIED TO OUT-SHOUT YA NEIGHBOR. It's not just for competition but it's there, and to be honest, that's just how black people are, everything's a show, and I'm not condoning it, but let's be real it gonna change no time soon. Also you might think somebody is trying to outdo someone else, but in their hearts they're just giving their best to God, it all depends on how you look at it and how much you know about that person...Holla

Trying to "out do" the others in church is sad but remember, it is not even a racial thing that just us blacks do.  I have been to churches of all denominations and racists of people, black, white, hispanic, etc.. and it is a people thing.  Everyone must remember, we are all still human and our human side is why problems are in the church.  We will not be perfect until we get out of our earthly shell and spend enternal life with the Father.  So as sad as the "competition" in trying to out shining the other choirs or musicians, or even preachers  is, it is going to happen.  But as long as you personally guard your actions and realize what is going on and try not to partake by merely just "showing off"  your talents or skills, you should be fine.  Also, like many others have stated, Musicianship is a factor, and what you believe someone is showing off about, might just be their way of playing and giving back glory to God.  Now the question is, do you get offended and jealous when you hear or watch cats who do this?  Then ask yourself the question of "why am Ijeolous of them for what they are doing for the Lord?"

         God bless you guys~The Dojz   

[SabianKnight]

I think everyone needs to really dig deep and ask themselves... what are they about?

Too many folk on this thread... in our churches and just in society in general are letting random foolishness prevail in their lives. What ever you loose in earth shall be loosed in heaven... whatever you bind in earth shall be bound in heaven.

It is very disappointing to here so many of us saying, competition is always going to be in the church/church folk and we just have to deal with it. That is a cop out. The devil is a liar. Some folk here act like the word dominion has never been spoken unto them. You act like you weren't made just a little bit lower than the Angels.
For as much as I am battling right now to hear this is sickening... On the real some of need to take a sip of some Get Right and act like you know. Folk need to start carrying yourself like you are somebody in the ONE body of the Most High. Perfect yourself so that you garner respect instead of challenge from your breatheren. Command respect for the reason you are there. In otherwords get some brass and put a punk in his place and qute crying like grasshoppers saying "It's always going to be there". Let's be the example folks...

Some folk may not make it to heaven because they let to much stuff slide and run rampant in their lives, in their physical temple and in God's house. Let's do a better job house sitting.

[music-samurai]

I think everyone needs to really dig deep and ask themselves... what are they about?

Too many folk on this thread... in our churches and just in society in general are letting random foolishness prevail in their lives. What ever you loose in earth shall be loosed in heaven... whatever you bind in earth shall be bound in heaven.

It is very disappointing to here so many of us saying, competition is always going to be in the church/church folk and we just have to deal with it. That is a cop out. The devil is a liar. Some folk here act like the word dominion has never been spoken unto them. You act like you weren't made just a little bit lower than the Angels.
For as much as I am battling right now to hear this is sickening... On the real some of need to take a sip of some Get Right and act like you know. Folk need to start carrying yourself like you are somebody in the ONE body of the Most High. Perfect yourself so that you garner respect instead of challenge from your breatheren. Command respect for the reason you are there. In otherwords get some brass and put a punk in his place and qute crying like grasshoppers saying "It's always going to be there". Let's be the example folks...

Some folk may not make it to heaven because they let to much stuff slide and run rampant in their lives, in their physical temple and in God's house. Let's do a better job house sitting.

Please SabianKnight!  Wake up from the Matrix!  These people are just being real and reality says there is competition in the church and it was there before you were born and it will be there when you are gone.  Now listen to Jeremy Haynes on how to deal with this REALITY.

[SabianKnight]

Please SabianKnight!  Wake up from the Matrix!  These people are just being real and reality says there is competition in the church and it was there before you were born and it will be there when you are gone.  Now listen to Jeremy Haynes on how to deal with this REALITY.

I heard Jeremy Haynes and everyone else if you read what I said you would realize that.

I still feel that taking a passive approach to this problem is out of order. I have lived in real competitive environments all my life be it sports, music competions, etc. What we see in the church etc as is being discussed in this particulare thread is not competition in the true since it is ego, jealousy and insecurity.

*** I live far from the Matrix and if you understood anything about the Matrix you wouldn't have made that comment either. I am not mad or anything like that so as we all know to keep it on the level.... My comments on this forum have all been well grounded in the times we live in.

Unfortunatley the times we live seem to stem more compromise than need be. I have have been just as guilty of it as the next man at times yet I strive for better. If you don't want to make a change in your environment then that's you. I pesonally seen t it as a problem that can be rectified if folk man up and set better standards and examples. Jeremy Haynes has spoken on many occasions as a great role model to today's drumset musician/church musician. He cannot be everywhere to be that name recognition having example for one so we have to be on eourselves in our terriotory which is where ever we go. Again, at no slight to Jeremy, I don't agree with the passive approach.

The comments I made in the previous posts are very much REALITY I choose to acknowledge it.

[music-samurai]

I heard Jeremy Haynes and everyone else if you read what I said you would realize that.

I still feel that taking a passive approach to this problem is out of order. I have lived in real competitive environments all my life be it sports, music competions, etc. What we see in the church etc as is being discussed in this particulare thread is not competition in the true since it is ego, jealousy and insecurity.

*** I live far from the Matrix and if you understood anything about the Matrix you wouldn't have made that comment either. I am not mad or anything like that so as we all know to keep it on the level.... My comments on this forum have all been well grounded in the times we live in.

Unfortunatley the times we live seem to stem more compromise than need be. I have have been just as guilty of it as the next man at times yet I strive for better. If you don't want to make a change in your environment then that's you. I pesonally seen t it as a problem that can be rectified if folk man up and set better standards and examples. Jeremy Haynes has spoken on many occasions as a great role model to today's drumset musician/church musician. He cannot be everywhere to be that name recognition having example for one so we have to be on eourselves in our terriotory which is where ever we go. Again, at no slight to Jeremy, I don't agree with the passive approach.

The comments I made in the previous posts are very much REALITY I choose to acknowledge it.

I see that you have chosen the blue pill.   

[bigblackdrummer]

I dont mind show offs! If they are doing something I cant do then I learn it. They keep you on your toes. Stop all this fussin and get better then them, that way you wont feel so bad when you go up after them.

[jhaynes]

Sab, as always  highly respect ur knowledge, so I feel no slight at all because like Ive said many of times "That's why GOD made us different!" but I've learned that when u allow urself to be moved or minipulated by some dude! That's trying to prove to you he can play, theirs nothing you can do about it yo! And I'm speaking from experience "CATS!" come for me aaaaaaaaall the time, and some of them even go as far as lokking at me while they're playing  (LOL) but once they have shot they're load after the first song they start doing the same crap over and over! And you can always tell who's there to just "Gig" and who's there to "Minister" so my way of handling it is no where near passive but, it is built around knowing who you are and what level you play at. I've learnd that the way you teach people how, is to show them how!    my greatest lessons were learnd watching people fail, or succeed and as long as we stay humble "So low to the ground that wind can get under you!" then we've done our job! I don't care who you are "NEVER!" AND I MEAN NEVER!!!!!! Play for the crowd of the musicians "Dug-Out!" "ONLY WHAT YOU DO FOR CHRIST WILL LAST!!!!!! And I agree with you Sab, (can I call you Sab?) it is about jealousy, ego's and insecurity! But remember those kinda guys only become "Inner Church Circle Hero's" and the nation never gets to see them and they never get to see the nation! Baceause they only go as far as the pats on they're backs from they're boys! That's whay I surround myself with men that know who they are musically and spiritually? Who dod what they do and go home to they're families instead of standing around waiting on someone to say"Maaaaaaaaan you was Killin tonight!" and never offer to take you to the next level in ur career! Because when they get in they're car they're saying "He was Killin but, he was busy dan a mug! But that other dude that was tasty I'll call him for a gig anytime!" so which one do you want! "One Time or A Lifetime!"    Holla!

[MaestroDivine]

Sab, as always  highly respect ur knowledge, so I feel no slight at all because like Ive said many of times "That's why GOD made us different!" but I've learned that when u allow urself to be moved or minipulated by some dude! That's trying to prove to you he can play, theirs nothing you can do about it yo! And I'm speaking from experience "CATS!" come for me aaaaaaaaall the time, and some of them even go as far as lokking at me while they're playing  (LOL) but once they have shot they're load after the first song they start doing the same crap over and over! And you can always tell who's there to just "Gig" and who's there to "Minister" so my way of handling it is no where near passive but, it is built around knowing who you are and what level you play at. I've learnd that the way you teach people how, is to show them how!    my greatest lessons were learnd watching people fail, or succeed and as long as we stay humble "So low to the ground that wind can get under you!" then we've done our job! I don't care who you are "NEVER!" AND I MEAN NEVER!!!!!! Play for the crowd of the musicians "Dug-Out!" "ONLY WHAT YOU DO FOR CHRIST WILL LAST!!!!!! And I agree with you Sab, (can I call you Sab?) it is about jealousy, ego's and insecurity! But remember those kinda guys only become "Inner Church Circle Hero's" and the nation never gets to see them and they never get to see the nation! Baceause they only go as far as the pats on they're backs from they're boys! That's whay I surround myself with men that know who they are musically and spiritually? Who dod what they do and go home to they're families instead of standing around waiting on someone to say"Maaaaaaaaan you was Killin tonight!" and never offer to take you to the next level in ur career! Because when they get in they're car they're saying "He was Killin but, he was busy dan a mug! But that other dude that was tasty I'll call him for a gig anytime!" so which one do you want! "One Time or A Lifetime!"    Holla!

Looking at you while they play?

Coming after you?

You can't be serious. I think I'm gonna puke. Thing is(and I know this from experience) - even if it WAS a competition, then ones who'd be able to match up with you, wouldn't feel the need to do so, anyway. They KNOW they can play. Cat's lookin' at you are looking for your approval. Any facial expression would inflate their ego another 50%. Ha...

It's lonely at the top, I've heard.

[Audiocr381ve]

jeremy haynes, I'll say this with as little psychoness as possible, I LOVE YOU DUDE.

We HAVE TO CHILL if you come to san diego. I'll treat you out. I live in a phat house that you could stay in if you need to. I'll cook you breakfast homie. hahaha! I'm kidding but, you inspire.

And to the homies that try to challenge Jeremy Haynes, ARE YOU CRAZY? HOMIE WILL EAT YOU UP LIKE LUNCH AFTER A SUNDAY MORNING SERVICE.

[music-samurai]

jeremy haynes, I'll say this with as little psychoness as possible, I LOVE YOU DUDE.

We HAVE TO CHILL if you come to san diego. I'll treat you out. I live in a phat house that you could stay in if you need to. I'll cook you breakfast homie. hahaha! I'm kidding but, you inspire.

And to the homies that try to challenge Jeremy Haynes, ARE YOU CRAZY? HOMIE WILL EAT YOU UP LIKE LUNCH AFTER A SUNDAY MORNING SERVICE.

Stop jockin and go practice!  Your statements have nothing to do with this subject.

[SabianKnight]

Sab, as always  highly respect ur knowledge, so I feel no slight at all because like Ive said many of times "That's why GOD made us different!" but I've learned that when u allow urself to be moved or minipulated by some dude! That's trying to prove to you he can play, theirs nothing you can do about it yo! And I'm speaking from experience "CATS!" come for me aaaaaaaaall the time, and some of them even go as far as lokking at me while they're playing  (LOL) but once they have shot they're load after the first song they start doing the same crap over and over! And you can always tell who's there to just "Gig" and who's there to "Minister" so my way of handling it is no where near passive but, it is built around knowing who you are and what level you play at. I've learnd that the way you teach people how, is to show them how!    my greatest lessons were learnd watching people fail, or succeed and as long as we stay humble "So low to the ground that wind can get under you!" then we've done our job! I don't care who you are "NEVER!" AND I MEAN NEVER!!!!!! Play for the crowd of the musicians "Dug-Out!" "ONLY WHAT YOU DO FOR CHRIST WILL LAST!!!!!! And I agree with you Sab, (can I call you Sab?) it is about jealousy, ego's and insecurity! But remember those kinda guys only become "Inner Church Circle Hero's" and the nation never gets to see them and they never get to see the nation! Baceause they only go as far as the pats on they're backs from they're boys! That's whay I surround myself with men that know who they are musically and spiritually? Who dod what they do and go home to they're families instead of standing around waiting on someone to say"Maaaaaaaaan you was Killin tonight!" and never offer to take you to the next level in ur career! Because when they get in they're car they're saying "He was Killin but, he was busy dan a mug! But that other dude that was tasty I'll call him for a gig anytime!" so which one do you want! "One Time or A Lifetime!"    Holla!

Jeremy I agree wit hwith you said befroe and I agree with what you just. I was emotional disturbed by the fact that some people think that it should just be allowed when it is such a problem. I however in hype mode because of the Matrix comment may have not been misinterpreted somewhat that I disagreed totally with you. I just feel and stated that  we have to be better examples and stronger in what we do but I also feel that there are times that we need to pull cats to the side and remind them that that is not the time nor place to try and "Mark the next man's tree." I feel that just letting it go causes these type people to think they can do it where ever they go. These same people drop names like "brid on a white car under a berry tree' which leaves a stain the ministry they claim to represent. It also makes the fall from the pedestal that much harder (at least the sudden stop/impact from the fall) which can be avoide. Yeah, some folk will and unfortunatley need to bump their heads.... And some folk you have take then out of the picture. You cannot allow the "purpose" to suffer. Respect should be commanded and demanded.

[TightHands]

The one thing u guys have to remember is, theirs always gonna be "Show-offs" at every musical, concert, or church service so u'll never escape from them please stop getting frustrated "It's Aight!"  But!!!!! what you can do to avoid feeling like ur on display is relax and be you, when it's time for you to sit down and play "JUST PLAY!" and play from the heart not for the crowd, and remember "WHOOOOOOOO CAAAAARRRESSS!" what people think of how you play! Ur not there to serve them ur there to be a "Help Meet!" BUT! Never sell urself short by not expressing what the music means to you at that time, because if you feel passionate about GOD and the GIFT that he's given you like "I Do!" then u'll always play as if it's ur last time, and play under the anointing that HE has allowed u to walk in! People will always try and discourage you about what and how you play! I never pay attention to who's in the room because I'm not a moody musician, crowds don't impress me nor do they make me play different, I always play like I'm recording or like GOD HIMSELF! Is listening at that very moment! So I encourage you LGM family to let the show-offs "Show-Off" and you stay humble because that's the only way you can have favor with others, instead of phone calls! Favor will get you so much further than "Phone Calls!" Trust Me Yo! The bible says "Theirs a time and a season for all things!" so when the time comes be ready and prepared so u can sustain your career and maintain those healthy relationships! "Be A Leader Not A Follower!"         Love You Guys!      "Rhythm Is Life Yo!"

Mr. Haynes, I totally have to agree with you! All I can say from my years of experience is to play how God wants you to but yes, there is always going to be that one drummer, musician, etc., who's is going to try and put on a show for everybody, and those will be the same people who are siting in the back watching you play "their" gig. 
     

[jhaynes]

"I AGREE TOTALLY!" Sab people you pull to the side walk away thinking they don't care waht you said, although that's very noble of you the best way I've learned is to play so clean, tasty and musical that when they come to me and want to talk, "THAT'S WHEN I SPEAK LIFE INTO THEM!" Martin Luther King "Lead by example!" not pulling black people to the side and telling them "Non Violence!" he was "Non Violent!" so I totally understand how you feel, and if you want to continue to do that where you live "I GOTCHA BACK HOMEY!" but don't exhaust urself fam, let the "Show Off's" play them selves into their own "Imbarresment!" because it will happen!!!!!!!!    , between dropping a stick, loosing time, or missing the 1  trust me yo! "IT WILL HAPPEN!"

[Da_Drumma]

"I AGREE TOTALLY!" Sab people you pull to the side walk away thinking they don't care waht you said, although that's very noble of you the best way I've learned is to play so clean, tasty and musical that when they come to me and want to talk, "THAT'S WHEN I SPEAK LIFE INTO THEM!" Martin Luther King "Lead by example!" not pulling black people to the side and telling them "Non Violence!" he was "Non Violent!" so I totally understand how you feel, and if you want to continue to do that where you live "I GOTCHA BACK HOMEY!" but don't exhaust urself fam, let the "Show Off's" play them selves into their own "Imbarresment!" because it will happen!!!!!!!!    , between dropping a stick, loosing time, or missing the 1  trust me yo! "IT WILL HAPPEN!"

Amen, Amen, Amen and darn gon it!!!  AMAN!!!

[bigblackdrummer]

jeremy haynes, I'll say this with as little psychoness as possible, I LOVE YOU DUDE.

We HAVE TO CHILL if you come to san diego. I'll treat you out. I live in a phat house that you could stay in if you need to. I'll cook you breakfast homie. hahaha! I'm kidding but, you inspire.

And to the homies that try to challenge Jeremy Haynes, ARE YOU CRAZY? HOMIE WILL EAT YOU UP LIKE LUNCH AFTER A SUNDAY MORNING SERVICE.

I wouldnt say that, but I do agree with him!

[SabianKnight]

"I AGREE TOTALLY!" Sab people you pull to the side walk away thinking they don't care waht you said, although that's very noble of you the best way I've learned is to play so clean, tasty and musical that when they come to me and want to talk, "THAT'S WHEN I SPEAK LIFE INTO THEM!" Martin Luther King "Lead by example!" not pulling black people to the side and telling them "Non Violence!" he was "Non Violent!" so I totally understand how you feel, and if you want to continue to do that where you live "I GOTCHA BACK HOMEY!" but don't exhaust urself fam, let the "Show Off's" play them selves into their own "Imbarresment!" because it will happen!!!!!!!!    , between dropping a stick, loosing time, or missing the 1  trust me yo! "IT WILL HAPPEN!"

You are defintley right about that.

I think my comments may seem "lofty" because I am new to the gospel side of things and it thought that it was a tighter knit community than it is. Honestly it seems like there is more commradery in the secular music scene. I love to be of help to people and I play because love music and drums and God put it all in me. When it is time to play that is a sacred time for me that is time for me to play in front of Him and say what I cannot verbalize. I want people to feel the music and the truth and passion in it and get lifted.