WHAT IS A GREAT MUSICIAN THESE DAYS(MY OWN THOUGHTS DONT GET MAD)

[music-samurai]

First of all....this is one of the best topics I've ever seen in LGM! And it's cool to see that no attitudes are flaring up! Civilized conversation!

Greatness....legacy........
I think about those words like this....If I can help someone else who may not be as far along as I am musically AND as a human being, that would be the way to leave a legacy. Greatness/excellence is a lifestyle. I feel that it transcends music and playing. There are many great players out there that may NEVER record an album, but that doesn't take away from them being excellent. I do agree to a point though that there should be some sort of record of such "greatness". That's just how I look at it. Yell back!

Yo homey I feel the same way.  I wouldnt play the way I play if it wasnt for some of the local drummers and they will probably never know how big of an influence they had on me.  In my eyes they are great because to me, Im great.  And Im talking about my skill level not my fame status.

[SabianKnight]

Something that we tend to overlook is that a  large portion the proof is in the circle of influence you are in and that you command. Has you gift brought you before and under the tutaledge of truly great men? have you through your gift and God's grace been able to lift some one to the status of greatness?

We are supposed to reproduce after our own kind so then at the point the we reach greatness we should have marked a path that others could follow to their destiny. We should be able to impart the wisdom gained in our journey (process). We should be able to show favor, command favor on their behalf when they arrive.

Evidence of greatness is that you can speak for those that cannot speak for themselves and doors be opened for them. I am speaking of the Master/Apprentice relationship that doesn't seem to exist anymore. The greats don't have anyone to pass the mantle to. They anyone submitted to them in hopes of getting a portion of their blessing... Elijah / Elisha. Even in things of this world (careers) we have to be submitted to be imparted into to be promoted and exhaulted by those that have the power and favor to do so.

How many of us have Masterd even a portion of our craft? How many of us are truly submitted to a Master of our craft (and mean like in the martial arts movies and real life martial arts world and Bible stories do what is demanded out of respect kind of way)? How many have even thought about making that kind of comittment to anyone including your Pastor? Does your Pastor or any one in your life spark that kind of respect/reverence from you?... If not then you need to seriously start examining your environment because we all need someone like that in your lives and we all need to be covered. So seek your mentor (Master) that can grow you, prune you, cultivate you... When the student is ready the teacher appears.   

[MaestroDivine]

Something that we tend to overlook is that a  large portion the proof is in the circle of influence you are in and that you command. Has you gift brought you before and under the tutaledge of truly great men? have you through your gift and God's grace been able to lift some one to the status of greatness?

We are supposed to reproduce after our own kind so then at the point the we reach greatness we should have marked a path that others could follow to their destiny. We should be able to impart the wisdom gained in our journey (process). We should be able to show favor, command favor on their behalf when they arrive.

Evidence of greatness is that you can speak for those that cannot speak for themselves and doors be opened for them. I am speaking of the Master/Apprentice relationship that doesn't seem to exist anymore. The greats don't have anyone to pass the mantle to. They anyone submitted to them in hopes of getting a portion of their blessing... Elijah / Elisha. Even in things of this world (careers) we have to be submitted to be imparted into to be promoted and exhaulted by those that have the power and favor to do so.

How many of us have Masterd even a portion of our craft? How many of us are truly submitted to a Master of our craft (and mean like in the martial arts movies and real life martial arts world and Bible stories do what is demanded out of respect kind of way)? How many have even thought about making that kind of comittment to anyone including your Pastor? Does your Pastor or any one in your life spark that kind of respect/reverence from you?... If not then you need to seriously start examining your environment because we all need someone like that in your lives and we all need to be covered. So seek your mentor (Master) that can grow you, prune you, cultivate you... When the student is ready the teacher appears.   

Sabe, you speak of being a musician in a way, as if it's you calling from God. As if you took a solemn vow, to do this to the best of your ability. I can assure you, you sound like a "space cadet" to a lot of people on this board, 'cause to them, "It's not that serious..."

Trust me, I know. I've had the same said about me. The majority of people can't understand an intense devotion to anything, unfortunately. Some people just want to pick an instrument, and have fun. Not everyone is going to feel as intensely about this as you do. I'm really starting to accept that now. Their will be those who become marvelous, and their are those who are content with marveling at the accomplishments of others.

That latter, it would seem, is the majority.

[min_amw]

Something that we tend to overlook is that a  large portion the proof is in the circle of influence you are in and that you command. Has you gift brought you before and under the tutaledge of truly great men? have you through your gift and God's grace been able to lift some one to the status of greatness?

We are supposed to reproduce after our own kind so then at the point the we reach greatness we should have marked a path that others could follow to their destiny. We should be able to impart the wisdom gained in our journey (process). We should be able to show favor, command favor on their behalf when they arrive.

Evidence of greatness is that you can speak for those that cannot speak for themselves and doors be opened for them. I am speaking of the Master/Apprentice relationship that doesn't seem to exist anymore. The greats don't have anyone to pass the mantle to. They anyone submitted to them in hopes of getting a portion of their blessing... Elijah / Elisha. Even in things of this world (careers) we have to be submitted to be imparted into to be promoted and exhaulted by those that have the power and favor to do so.

How many of us have Masterd even a portion of our craft? How many of us are truly submitted to a Master of our craft (and mean like in the martial arts movies and real life martial arts world and Bible stories do what is demanded out of respect kind of way)? How many have even thought about making that kind of comittment to anyone including your Pastor? Does your Pastor or any one in your life spark that kind of respect/reverence from you?... If not then you need to seriously start examining your environment because we all need someone like that in your lives and we all need to be covered. So seek your mentor (Master) that can grow you, prune you, cultivate you... When the student is ready the teacher appears.   

Nicely expressed!

[Krazy_afro_man]

Can a musician be deemed great if he's never been recorded on wax??? 

I think they can. Just because your not on an ablum or making it big time on platinum records  doesnt mean you are less of a musician than those that do. There are too many good musicians that we never heard of or will never hear about. I could write a book on this topic, but i wont...

[SabianKnight]

I think they can.....There are too many good musicians that we never heard of or will never hear about. I could write a book on this topic, but i wont...

Not picking on you but, we are not talking about being good. We are devling into the desire/committment/decision to be great (the best we are meant to be). The question is what does it take? because the examples and teachings seem to be absent in the hearts and minds of todays would be musicians. 

[cdrums116]

Sabe, I don't think the examples or teachings are absent. I think that what we as gospel musicians are missing is humbleness. It seems to me that we are so much more prideful, these days. And, everyone wants to play for the wrong reasons. I had a guy email me the other day, and ask what he needed to do, or how he needed to play to get endorsements. It was something like that. Like he was asking if I played just for money and endorsements. He went on to say he was playing in church, and trying to get endorsements. And this is the kind of stuff I run into all the time. People playing for the wrong reasons. That's just one example. I told him that if I never got one piece of equipment for free, I'd still be playing my heart out. One thing we gotta know is, all of us won't/can't leave the church and hit the road. Some of us are gonna be called to be straight up church musicians, ministers of musics, and etc.
When I started studying jazz, I was already somewhat of an accomplished gospel musician. I mean, people knew me, and considered me a proffessional. But the guy I was studying with, made me his roadie for the first 2-3 months. I spent those nights, carrying his drums, helping him setup and breakdown, etc...then we started shedding. Now, how many of us would be willing to become someones roadie?? We're all giging, working, doing our thing...and we kinda got this attitude like we're above certain things. But we gotta humble ourselves. This isn't directly connected to the topic. But do you guys feel what I'm saying. Those of us/you that want to be great, you gotta submit. Now myself personally, I don't know if I set out to be great. And that might not make since. But there might be someone that feels where I'M coming from...man, I play the way I do because I love what I do. There's nothing in this world that brings me the kind of joy like music. I mean there's life, love and family...and they're all wonderful, and make me happy. But nothing makes feel the way music does. Now some people say I'm great. Some say I'm average, and some say I'm overrated(lol, yall remember that topic). But, I never set out to be great. I've set goals and tried to set high standards. But I never set out to be great. I just worked hard to be the best I could be(not the best that others thought I could/should be, either). There's is so much information and music available, to those that want to be great. And for the ones that just wanna play cuz they love it....it's some out there for us too. Again, I know I'm rambling...so I'll end it here.
It's all for the love yall
Calvin

[SabianKnight]

Sabe, I don't think the examples or teachings are absent. I think that what we as gospel musicians are missing is humbleness. It seems to me that we are so much more prideful, these days. And, everyone wants to play for the wrong reasons. I had a guy email me the other day, and ask what he needed to do, or how he needed to play to get endorsements. It was something like that. Like he was asking if I played just for money and endorsements. He went on to say he was playing in church, and trying to get endorsements. And this is the kind of stuff I run into all the time. People playing for the wrong reasons. That's just one example. I told him that if I never got one piece of equipment for free, I'd still be playing my heart out. One thing we gotta know is, all of us won't/can't leave the church and hit the road. Some of us are gonna be called to be straight up church musicians, ministers of musics, and etc.
When I started studying jazz, I was already somewhat of an accomplished gospel musician. I mean, people knew me, and considered me a proffessional. But the guy I was studying with, made me his roadie for the first 2-3 months. I spent those nights, carrying his drums, helping him setup and breakdown, etc...then we started shedding. Now, how many of us would be willing to become someones roadie?? We're all giging, working, doing our thing...and we kinda got this attitude like we're above certain things. But we gotta humble ourselves. This isn't directly connected to the topic. But do you guys feel what I'm saying. Those of us/you that want to be great, you gotta submit. Now myself personally, I don't know if I set out to be great. And that might not make since. But there might be someone that feels where I'M coming from...man, I play the way I do because I love what I do. There's nothing in this world that brings me the kind of joy like music. I mean there's life, love and family...and they're all wonderful, and make me happy. But nothing makes feel the way music does. Now some people say I'm great. Some say I'm average, and some say I'm overrated(lol, yall remember that topic). But, I never set out to be great. I've set goals and tried to set high standards. But I never set out to be great. I just worked hard to be the best I could be(not the best that others thought I could/should be, either). There's is so much information and music available, to those that want to be great. And for the ones that just wanna play cuz they love it....it's some out there for us too. Again, I know I'm rambling...so I'll end it here.
It's all for the love yall
Calvin

I think that you are definitley on point. I feel the same way. And quite frankly I will roadie/tech for near anyone because I love being close to the drums and music that much. Steve Gadds roadie for the last James Taylor tour is a Berkley grad that has played some big gigs himself but he excepted the gig to tech for Gadd. Well another engagement came up during the tour and he had to fill-in two nnights for Gadd. Being the tech he had sat behind him every night and new the show. Submission and humility will position you for things like that.

I think that pridefulness is one of the reasons their is so little submission.

I feel another is the value system currently or should I say the lack there of because so many have taken up materialism instead.

[MaestroDivine]

Now some people say I'm great. Some say I'm average, and some say I'm overrated(lol, yall remember that topic).

Calvin,

For what it's worth, after reading that, I have MUCH respect for you as a person. Their has been much said about you on this site; and frankly, A LOT of it has been said by me. However, the fact that you've read those comments by myself, and others - and didn't feel the need to start a topic, flaming everyone who didn't appreciate your playing...that say's a lot about you. See, a lot of people talk about humility, but very few have it. Humility isn't humility, until it's tested. I don't know too many people who could take that level of criticism, and humble themselves enough, to allow people to have their opinion, without confronting them.

THAT, my friends, is character. Humility, like patience, is divine. That's why so few humans have it.

~OD

[Ontherise]

Adam is not playing your common funk licks, hes playing a lot of gospel licks and putting his spin on them. As I said; everyone has the opportunity to do this, but the mind set of most black people holds them back from bigger things (READ OTHER TOPICS FROM THE PAST KID!!!) It has nothing to do with comfort zones but mind set!!!!! Proof! To learn the licks that we are doing now most regular drummers cant do! Their in awe at the Gospel drummer! If we can pull off the licks we do THEN WHY cant most of us pull off a simple rock song or white contemporary ballad or even country with out sounding out of place.

Most of you cant even play reggae properly! Even Gerald Heyward hacked his way through the reggae song on the first S.O.P. CD! I love Gerald Heyward with all my heart, hes one of my favorate drummers BUT you will never hear him playing for Celene Dion or Avril Levine.

yo man u took da words rite out of my mouth.............it's sda but true

[freddyfusion]

Something that we tend to overlook is that a  large portion the proof is in the circle of influence you are in and that you command. Has you gift brought you before and under the tutaledge of truly great men? have you through your gift and God's grace been able to lift some one to the status of greatness?

We are supposed to reproduce after our own kind so then at the point the we reach greatness we should have marked a path that others could follow to their destiny. We should be able to impart the wisdom gained in our journey (process). We should be able to show favor, command favor on their behalf when they arrive.

Evidence of greatness is that you can speak for those that cannot speak for themselves and doors be opened for them. I am speaking of the Master/Apprentice relationship that doesn't seem to exist anymore. The greats don't have anyone to pass the mantle to. They anyone submitted to them in hopes of getting a portion of their blessing... Elijah / Elisha. Even in things of this world (careers) we have to be submitted to be imparted into to be promoted and exhaulted by those that have the power and favor to do so.

How many of us have Masterd even a portion of our craft? How many of us are truly submitted to a Master of our craft (and mean like in the martial arts movies and real life martial arts world and Bible stories do what is demanded out of respect kind of way)? How many have even thought about making that kind of comittment to anyone including your Pastor? Does your Pastor or any one in your life spark that kind of respect/reverence from you?... If not then you need to seriously start examining your environment because we all need someone like that in your lives and we all need to be covered. So seek your mentor (Master) that can grow you, prune you, cultivate you... When the student is ready the teacher appears.   

i have to agree
great point(s)

[baldeagle]

Greatness is deemed in legacy. What mark a person/musician leaves.

I'm probably repeating the same sentiment as many others. But. . . if I play at a church every Sunday, with all of my heart, giving praise and Glory to God. . . and 30 kids in the audience want to praise God through drums as a result of my dedication and sincerity, am I not great because I have not played with Fred Hammond or Israel Houghton?

[min_amw]

I think that you are definitley on point. I feel the same way. And quite frankly I will roadie/tech for near anyone because I love being close to the drums and music that much. Steve Gadds roadie for the last James Taylor tour is a Berkley grad that has played some big gigs himself but he excepted the gig to tech for Gadd. Well another engagement came up during the tour and he had to fill-in two nnights for Gadd. Being the tech he had sat behind him every night and new the show. Submission and humility will position you for things like that.

I think that pridefulness is one of the reasons their is so little submission.

I feel another is the value system currently or should I say the lack there of because so many have taken up materialism instead.

I feel both of you guys on that. I used to roadie and tech for other drummers because I wanted to be where the music was. I learned alot by doing that, I learned how to feel other musicians, how to work and communicate with other musicians, I even learned some etiquette (sp?) in recording situations. Not to say that you can't learn it on your own, but it helps to have cats show you in real time. But on the other hand, you've gotta want to be in that situation. It all comes back to YOU......how will you invest into yourself and others. In other words, how will you ever learn to lead if you don't know how to follow? Yell back!

[Ontherise]

Sabe, you speak of being a musician in a way, as if it's you calling from God. As if you took a solemn vow, to do this to the best of your ability. I can assure you, you sound like a "space cadet" to a lot of people on this board, 'cause to them, "It's not that serious..."

Trust me, I know. I've had the same said about me. The majority of people can't understand an intense devotion to anything, unfortunately. Some people just want to pick an instrument, and have fun. Not everyone is going to feel as intensely about this as you do. I'm really starting to accept that now. Their will be those who become marvelous, and their are those who are content with marveling at the accomplishments of others.

That latter, it would seem, is the majority.

MAN M.D., Sabe u guys r speakin somethin that is strong and powerful. I wish, no I pray there can be more musicians who share and have the same passion and love for there craft. A lot of musicians just pick up an instrument to play cause there friends are doin it or there parents wanted them to do it. The failure to success and greatness is complacency. Some of us have to ask do we have the desire to be great

[DESQ]

Man, some of you guys must live on this site 24/7.    By the time I get to weigh in on something, somebody has already said something that I would have stated and stolen my thunder.   Well they say, great minds think alike.  Anyways, trying to stay on the topic that Thomas brought up but I want to approach it in a different manner. 

I think that we have to reconsider what we consider great.  Are we looking for men to laud us and proclaim our greatness or for God ALMIGHTY to refer to us as great (Well done my good and faithful servant)  Not trying to be deep just want to express my passion both for God and music and if you truly understood the interplay between music and God's purpose and plan for our lives (and his people) you would understand why I'm going this way.   

A great musician to me is someone who recognizes that God has granted them the talent to play but has not rested on their God-given talent alone.  Upon this recognition, (that God has given you the talent) they understand that He wants you to perfect it to the best of you ability so that He can use it for His purpose which is beyond our ability--to open a person to be receptive to the Word so that it can affect a change in people's lives.  That's why we keep admonishing you to study music and understand the fundamentals so that God can take your knowledge and expound upon it tenfold.  See the parable of the talents in Matthew 19:14-28.  If you don't put your all into perfecting the talent that God has given you why should you expect him to open doors for you to play on various projects or the favor to obtain endorsements.  Actually, we should be studying our instrument to please God not man.  Colossians 3:23.

Secondly, a great musician is someone who has not only perfected their craft by understanding music theory, basic rudiments, reading music, playing in all keys or styles, etc, but more importantly seeks the anointing of God in their playing.  I have heard and been around a lot of talented musicians who have all this technical expertise and book knowledge, but the thing they lack is the anointing of God.  They are great musicians (talented that is) by man's standard but they are not anointed to break the yoke of the enemy and usher in the Spirit.  As musicians, that's what we must strive for.  To have the anointing of God come through our playing each time we sit down.  If you seek the anointing of God, he will bless you beyond your wildest imaginations.  Reference these scriptures:  2 Chronicles 15:1-2, Psalms 1: 2-3, Psalms 37:4, Matt 6:33, I Peter 1:4.  The Lord will authenticate your greatness by opening doors for you (if that is His will for you)

Additionally, like the sentiment Spanky stated in a previous post, "it's straight warfare when we begin to play"  Look at the Old Testament Scriptures when God sent the children of Israel to conquer---they used instruments to lead the warriors into battle (and sometimes all they used were instruments).  Our instruments are weapons against the Enemy himself and his demons.  Depression, suicide, lust, wrath, addictions should be confronted through our playing and flee so when the Word comes behind us it can enter the person's soul, convict them and bring them to the Lord.  That's the passion I'm talking about--to expand God's kingdom.  God wants to use us in miraculous and phenomenal ways and we're shortchanging the talent he has placed within us by being close-minded, stubborn and having a "whatever" attitude towards our instrument and Gospel music.  Gospel music is the only music that changes lives for the better and brings us to closer to Christ.  The Gospel embraces all cultures, its not a black thing, and American thing, its universal. It's from the limitless mind of God if your attuned to His mind.  We must be able to play anything b/c the Gospel is universal.  That's why we tell you to be study and to be versatile b/c during your P&W session the Lord might move on you to incorporate a rhythm to fight the spirit of depression that is dwelling within a person. 

Unfortunately, we have placed God in a box.  We have allowed executives with no musical background or knowledge (and sometimes with no relationship with Christ) tell us what Gospel music is ???   You know why the world is always copying b/c it takes the inspiration of God to be creative and innovative.  What spirit do you have????  God is so much larger than what we give Him credit for, so why should our music be the same 

OK I think I might have digressed a little bit .  It's time to take a deep breath and to step away from the keyboard.  I only want us to move beyond mediocrity and embrace the awesomeness of God in our playing.  Peace and God Bless!!

 

[SabianKnight]

A great musician to me is someone who recognizes that God has granted them the talent to play but has not rested on their God-given talent alone.  Upon this recognition, (that God has given you the talent) they understand that He wants you to perfect it to the best of you ability so that He can use it for His purpose which is beyond our ability--to open a person to be receptive to the Word so that it can affect a change in people's lives. 

Whoooooooooooooo!