Topic: Exercise - Changing Modes using 2-5-1s (Read 5617 times)

Big_Al · « **on:** May 31, 2006, 11:55:57 AM »

LGMers, try these key changes using 2-5-1s. This is a GREAT exercise.
Let me know if you'd prefer notes instead of chords. As for basslines,
use the root bass with each chord.

Bbm7 Eb7 Bm7 E7 AM7

Am7 D7 Bbm7 Eb7 AbM7

Abm7 Db7 Am7 D7 GM7 Bbm7 Eb7 AbM7

Bm7 E7 AM7

-Alonzo Brown

jomo7 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2006, 02:15:01 PM »

Check out my post entiltled(Yo all my Godly Organist)

UCJA2008 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01, 2006, 02:28:27 AM »

prefer notes

CATRON · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01, 2006, 03:00:29 AM »

Quote from: UCJA2008 on June 01, 2006, 02:28:27 AM

prefer notes

WELL IM NOT EVAN GONNA LIE TO YOU BRO. I KNOW THE METHOD OF THIS WAY OF SPELLING CHORDS BUT I DON'T KNOW ALL OF THEM. lol

ALL IT IS, IS BASIC CHORDS WITH ADDED NOTES ON THE TOP.

FOR EXAMPLE AN F#M7.

ALL THAT IS, IS A REGULAR F# MAJOR CHORD WITH A ADDED 7th.

THE ADDED 7th MEANS THAT YOU ARE TO ADD THE 7th NOTE OF THE F# MAJOR SCALE TO THE TOP OF THE CHORD.

SO THAT CHORD IS A F#-Bb-C#-F.

I HOPE IM NOT CONFUSSING YOU MAN. IF YOU NEED ANY HELP MYSELF, BISHOPCOLE, AND KEY-WIZ COULD HELP YOU OUT WITH IT.

I'M NOT DOWNING ANYBODY ELSE ON FORUM, I JUST KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THOSE OTHER 2 PEOPLE THAT I MENTIONED HAVE NO PROBLEM HELPING YOU OUT WITH THIS.

HOLLA

Big_Al · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01, 2006, 01:24:36 PM »

Guys. Please you're killing me. Don't mix sharps with flats in chord reference. If you prefer Sharps, the above notation is F# A# C# F. On the other hand, flats would be Gb Bb Db F.

-Al

rjthakid · « **Reply #5 on:** June 01, 2006, 03:03:49 PM »

Quote from: Big_Al on June 01, 2006, 01:24:36 PM

Guys. Please you're killing me. Don't mix sharps with flats in chord reference. If you prefer Sharps, the above notation is F# A# C# F. On the other hand, flats would be Gb Bb Db F.

-Al

Yea, I hate that too. lol.

A problem with only listing chord names is that it doesn't tell you which inversion to use unless you specify. I've always found it helpful when someone lists the notes, AND the chord name next to it.

Now, if you said Ab13#5b9, I'd know what you're talking about (Notes: Ab-C-E-G/Db-F-A), but not everyone does.

You see, in that chord I listed, I put the b9 on top. With just Ab13#5b9, you don't know WHAT inversion to use.

codewarrior · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2006, 06:38:13 PM »

rjthakid, that's because using 2-5-1's to switch keys is a *concept*. It doesn't matter which inversion you do it in. Matter of fact you shouldn't use the same inversion every time anyway. If you learn how to think of things in terms of harmony instead of specific notes, then you can choose inversions by the melody you're hearing on the top and your playing will sound a lot more full and colorful (think David Jackson and Butch).

So don't worry so much about having someone tell you which inversion to use. Just listen and use your ear.

rjthakid · « **Reply #7 on:** June 05, 2006, 08:42:31 AM »

Quote from: codewarrior on June 03, 2006, 06:38:13 PM

rjthakid, that's because using 2-5-1's to switch keys is a *concept*. It doesn't matter which inversion you do it in. Matter of fact you shouldn't use the same inversion every time anyway. If you learn how to think of things in terms of harmony instead of specific notes, then you can choose inversions by the melody you're hearing on the top and your playing will sound a lot more full and colorful (think David Jackson and Butch).

So don't worry so much about having someone tell you which inversion to use. Just listen and use your ear.

First, let me correct myself. Ab13#5b9 isn't Ab-C-E-G/Db-F-A........That "G" is supposed to be Gb

Sorry about that.

I now understand what you mean, and in your case the specific inversion isn't required.

Now if you were giving the chords to a SONG, then you'd need to specify. But since this is theory and not a song, I see why you didn't spell it out.

SupremeSaltine · « **Reply #8 on:** June 05, 2006, 10:01:14 AM »

Quote from: rjthakid on June 01, 2006, 03:03:49 PM

Yea, I hate that too. lol.

A problem with only listing chord names is that it doesn't tell you which inversion to use unless you specify. I've always found it helpful when someone lists the notes, AND the chord name next to it.

Now, if you said Ab13#5b9, I'd know what you're talking about (Notes: Ab-C-E-G/Db-F-A), but not everyone does.

You see, in that chord I listed, I put the b9 on top. With just Ab13#5b9, you don't know WHAT inversion to use.

Are you saying that because the flat 9 is denoted last in the chord symbol that it means it is voiced on top? That's not right. Not that it couldn't be on top,

This chord would be kind of a mess. I think a better way to notate it would be Ab7 (b9 b13). The way you have it written it contains both the flat 6th and the natural 6th (the #5 and the 13) which is very dissonant. Also there is no 11th in a 13th chord. The notation of "13th" does not mean that the chord contains the 7th, 9th, 11th and 13th scale degrees. It only means there is a 7th and a 6th in the same chord. I would play this chord: Ab in the pedal, Gb/C in the LH, and E/A in the RH. It naturally resolves to Dbmaj13 voiced: Db in the pedal, F/Bb in the LH and Eb/Ab in the RH.

rjthakid · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2006, 01:14:56 PM »

Quote from: SupremeSaltine on June 05, 2006, 10:01:14 AM

Are you saying that because the flat 9 is denoted last in the chord symbol that it means it is voiced on top? That's not right. Not that it couldn't be on top,

This chord would be kind of a mess. I think a better way to notate it would be Ab7 (b9 b13). The way you have it written it contains both the flat 6th and the natural 6th (the #5 and the 13) which is very dissonant. Also there is no 11th in a 13th chord. The notation of "13th" does not mean that the chord contains the 7th, 9th, 11th and 13th scale degrees. It only means there is a 7th and a 6th in the same chord. I would play this chord: Ab in the pedal, Gb/C in the LH, and E/A in the RH. It naturally resolves to Dbmaj13 voiced: Db in the pedal, F/Bb in the LH and Eb/Ab in the RH.

This is a quote from

http://jlb-music.inkom.hr/59.html

Eleventh Chords
Eleventh chords are created by adding a perfect eleventh interval to an existing ninth chord. There are some exceptions.
If you have a major 9th chord or a dominant chord, and you add a perfect 11th, you will create a very dissonant chord. To decrease the dissonance raise the 11th by a half-step. You reflect this alteration in the chord name like so.

Thirteenth Chords
Thirteenth chords that are "complete" are built by adding a major thirteenth to an existing eleventh chord. You should note that extended chords won't always have ALL of the notes that it theoretically should have. In a thirteenth chord it is popular to leave out the eleventh. If the eleventh is in the chord and it is altered you must show that is.

(actually that chord had a typo in it ....I corrected it in a latter post. the G is actually supposed to be Gb)
The key word there is "complete" the 13th I listed was "complete" but it doesn't HAVE to be complete.

Also, you said that a 13th only means that there is a 7th and 6th, but that's actually 7/6 (7 add 6)

Yea, it's dissonant. It definitely can't be played on a keyboard. lol. I don't play keys. As a passing chord on an Organ, it'll give you a phat sound. I don't know why you don't like it though. Sounds good to me. I could be wrong.

Since this is the Organ Room:

Ab/C-E-Gb/Db-F-A

Something I learned: You NEVER look at a chord by itself and say it doesn't sound good. You'd have to hear it in the context of the music. There are some UGLY chords that, when played as passing chords add some real spice to music.

Looking at a chord by itself is like looking at a random quote in a book: sometimes it speaks for itself, but sometimes you have to know what came before it and what comes after it to truly understand it.

jomo7 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2006, 05:30:37 PM »

THIS ARE ALL GREAT POST BUT

FT/LH/RH IS THE CORRECT WAY TO POST IN THE ORGAN ROOM

codewarrior · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2006, 06:58:46 PM »

Why does there have to be a "correct" way to post. Let people post however they want, and if you can't understand the theory just check out a book or ask somebody. It's a really useful way of describing chords

jomo7 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2006, 06:07:53 PM »

Quote from: codewarrior on June 06, 2006, 06:58:46 PM

Why does there have to be a "correct" way to post. Let people post however they want, and if you can't understand the theory just check out a book or ask somebody. It's a really useful way of describing chords

well if you do some reseach on some of my past post you will see that i say post like FP/LH/RH
because if this site is supose to help ALL muiscan beganners as will as advanced then it would be easier and faster to learn if they were posted like this. But if chords or posted like AbM7(b5)_ (CGG) then people have to bother with looking in a dictionary Chord book, Old high school trig math book and biology book before being able to play even the first chord. And by the time you do decode the first chord you dont even fill like playing the song anymore. So it is ALOT better and easier to read if ORGANchords or posted like this FP/LH/RH it gets right to the point and everyone understands it

codewarrior · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:47:29 PM »

I read your past post

You definitely don't need a trig book to understand what a minor 7 chord is. This is simple basic harmony, and anyone that spends a couple days or weeks learning the basics and/or asking somebody that knows can understand this with no problem. This isn't Herbie Hancock-level stuff.

When somebody is posting a concept it's better to use actualy harmonic language like this instead of putting a bunch of individual notes, because you can only use it correctly if you understand the concept anyway instead of just trying to memorize specific chords. That is the point.

if you learn this stuff you progress much faster as a musician. If not, you basically slow yourself down. A lot of people I know have no idea just how much faster they'd learn if they took the time to get a few basic concepts about harmony.

And yeah, I think that's something every beginner should do. You shouldn't have to be advanced to know basic theory.

diverse379 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2006, 06:20:06 AM »

The fact of the matter is that there are different levels of musicians here

and jomo you have a pet peeve about reading chords you have said so on numerous occasions but for some of us having the symbol read is easier there are many people who post in the other form most in fact. If big al chooses to post in traditional notation then that is his right.

I hope you dont jump on me for saying this. but the fact is that many musicians on this site read or know a significant amount of theory and it is difficult for us to read the notes written out it is much easier for us to read the chord symbol.
When I see a symbol i instantly have 10 chords i can play some may have 100
so the symbol is liberating not confining and if you have to read couple of books to learn to read symbols then do it learn it and then you never have to read it again
because in truth one good book chapter can teach you how to read symbols and then you will never have to worry again

you will never be able to please everybody so dont expect people to always to be able to please you.

LGM does and has adopted a very useful methord for notating chords I personally like it and sometimes use it with my beginning students but before they have been with me for three months they are reading chord symbols. Chord symbols are standard in Jazz and in all song books. So it is something that every serious musician should learn.
But if You dont feel like you need to learn it dont learn it but then dont complain when people post with chord symbolse .

God forbid someone figures out how to type actual music notation on this site
Remember this site serves beginners advanced and intermediate readers theorists and ear players
so let the posters post how they choose and their post will serve the audience that can most appreciate them

I hope Jomo that you take what i have written in the way it was intended To be a blessing to you and all that read it
lets be careful about thinking one thing or another is correct or incorrect that is how we get ourselves twisted over nothing.

To Big Al thanks for you post I like it what and where did you get it from

Big_Al · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2006, 08:02:06 AM »

Thanks guys for your reply. Sorry for the confusion. Next time, I'll try to post my chords in Symbols and a format for beginners as well (fp/lh/rh with chord )

As for where I obtain this material, its a basic 2-5-1 excerise from one of my Jazz theory classes.

Please stay BLESSed.

-Al

jomo7 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:54:24 PM »

whoaaaaaaaaa when did you guys ever read that i dont know what this symobals mean, Just for the record i do know how to read alot not all but alot of this symobals that are posted. But i guess God has not bless certain people the gift of comprehending what people are saying sooo i 'll try and explain it once more for those people who really cant read and tend to skip over words when they read. IF THIS IS A SITE FOR ALL MUSICAN, BEGNNINGS, INTERMEDATE. AND ADVANCE THEN IT IS BEST TO POST WHERE EVERYBODY CAN BENIFIT. AND SINCE THIS IS THE ORGAN ROOM THEN IT IS BETTER TO POST ORGAN CHORDS LIKE HOW PEOPLE PLAY THE ORGAN WITH BASS NOTES LEFT HAND NOTES AND RIGHT HAND NOTES (FP/LH/RH) NOW IF I WAS AND ORGANIST WHICH I AM AND I WANT SOME ORGAN CHORDS TO A SONG OR A CERTAIN CHANGE THAT YOU DO ON THE ORGAN THAN I WOULD COME ON THIS SITE AND COME TO THE SO CALL ORGAN ROOM AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD PROBABLY FIND CHORD POSTED LIKE I WAS PLAYING THE PIANO OR KEYBOARD WHICH IF YOU ARE A REAL MUSICAN WOULD KNOW THAT ITS A BIG DIFFENCE IN THE THREE. WHO POSTED THE SICKEST CHORDS ON LGM? THE ANSWER WOULD BE KEY-WIZ IF YOU NOTICE WHEN HE POST EVERYBODY EVEN THE SUPER BEGNNERS WHO HAVE NOT LEARN HOW TO READ CHORD LIKE A9(C-G-F)BbAUG7 CAN PLAY IT.KEY-WIZ ALWAYS POST HIS ORGAN CHORDS FP/LH/RH THIS WHY I SURE EVERY DOES SOME THING THAT KEY-WIZ DOES BECASUE BROTHER NOWS HOW TO POST SO SICK CHORDS FOR EVERYBODY NOT JUST THOSE WHO JUST READ NOTATION. HE POST FOR EVERYONE THAT CAN UNDERSTAND THE ALPHBET[/move SO

rjthakid · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2006, 09:20:16 AM »

Quote from: jomo7 on June 14, 2006, 02:54:24 PM

whoaaaaaaaaa when did you guys ever read that i dont know what this symobals mean, Just for the record i do know how to read alot not all but alot of this symobals that are posted. But i guess God has not bless certain people the gift of comprehending what people are saying sooo i 'll try and explain it once more for those people who really cant read and tend to skip over words when they read. IF THIS IS A SITE FOR ALL MUSICAN, BEGNNINGS, INTERMEDATE. AND ADVANCE THEN IT IS BEST TO POST WHERE EVERYBODY CAN BENIFIT. AND SINCE THIS IS THE ORGAN ROOM THEN IT IS BETTER TO POST ORGAN CHORDS LIKE HOW PEOPLE PLAY THE ORGAN WITH BASS NOTES LEFT HAND NOTES AND RIGHT HAND NOTES (FP/LH/RH) NOW IF I WAS AND ORGANIST WHICH I AM AND I WANT SOME ORGAN CHORDS TO A SONG OR A CERTAIN CHANGE THAT YOU DO ON THE ORGAN THAN I WOULD COME ON THIS SITE AND COME TO THE SO CALL ORGAN ROOM AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD PROBABLY FIND CHORD POSTED LIKE I WAS PLAYING THE PIANO OR KEYBOARD WHICH IF YOU ARE A REAL MUSICAN WOULD KNOW THAT ITS A BIG DIFFENCE IN THE THREE. WHO POSTED THE SICKEST CHORDS ON LGM? THE ANSWER WOULD BE KEY-WIZ IF YOU NOTICE WHEN HE POST EVERYBODY EVEN THE SUPER BEGNNERS WHO HAVE NOT LEARN HOW TO READ CHORD LIKE A9(C-G-F)BbAUG7 CAN PLAY IT.KEY-WIZ ALWAYS POST HIS ORGAN CHORDS FP/LH/RH THIS WHY I SURE EVERY DOES SOME THING THAT KEY-WIZ DOES BECASUE BROTHER NOWS HOW TO POST SO SICK CHORDS FOR EVERYBODY NOT JUST THOSE WHO JUST READ NOTATION. HE POST FOR EVERYONE THAT CAN UNDERSTAND THE ALPHBET[/move SO

But Jomo7, you have to understand why he used chord names in THIS post. Because this is mainly theory. So voicings are irrelevant in this case. Now if it was a song, then you could say: "he should've typed it out so we can see the voicings he used", but this is different. It's not about sick chords and stuff. Even if he typed it out for the beginners, it wouldn't help them unless they understood what they were doing anyway.

So I agree that chords should be typed out for SONGS, but theory is different.

diverse379 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2006, 12:59:20 PM »

codewarrior · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2006, 10:41:56 AM »

jomo7 in my opinion beginners shouldn't be trying to learn sick chords anyway. They should just learn the basics, and then *build* from there. Cause really the sickest musicians are people that know the basics well and they just *create* sick chords and changes and runs on the spot instead of memorizing a bunch of them and trying to throw them in.

You keep saying people didn't read what you said, but now you didn't read what I said. So I will repeat:

minor and major seventh chords are *beginner* level theory. That's not advanced stuff. This is not Chick Corea level theory. This is stuff EVERY musician should know, whether they started 2 months ago or 20 years ago. If you don't learn this stuff it slows down your whole development as a musician.

It's not about specific notes. There's not just one way to play a 2-5-1. But when you know the *concept* you can create as many of them as you like and they can be as sick or as simple as you wanna be. Like rj said, just putting the notes up is not gonna help somebody who doesn't know how to use the concept anyway.

Author Topic: Exercise - Changing Modes using 2-5-1s (Read 5617 times)

UCJA2008

CATRON

rjthakid

rjthakid

rjthakid

rjthakid