Right or wrong???

[djgroovin]

Any musician looks for these opportunities.  It's a no brainer to me.  He will probably regret it if he does not take it.  Sounds like an open door to walk through.  That's how GOD operates.  We pray for these opportunities then we question them when they come.

[thomas1168]

PLEASE READ MY POSTS IN THE UNGRATEFULL POST

[thomas1168]

Hello, I had just posted on the subject UNGRATEFULL my personal experiences and what had work for me PLEASE READ to understand where i am coming from.

Question Does you cousin want to be a professional Bass Player

Some of the replies kill me. I can see playing for free ( TITHING YOUR TIME) if you are financially well off. BUT If this is a professional career for your cousin he should be payed to his abilities.
I would like to see anyone go to work tomorrow and say  Ya know I was thinking I do not need a pay check any more I want to give my time for free in the name of God. God did not create us to be so dumb, and they will quote scipture too.BUT SCRIPTURE ALSO SAYS We are to work HARD ( IN ANY FIELD) to the best of our abilities and PROSPER. But we MUST tith back to him off of our increase. And it goes back to what I said if you do not need to get payed wonderfull tith your time to your church it is a blessing. 
 
T

[laj528]

TPCPastor ----- From Pastor to Pastor Praise the Lord!

Yes, I agree it is a God thing!

Ministry or Occupation? .... That is the question that must be answered…..
Unfortunately giving to God is a fleeting stance…. Money and occupational opportunity have replaced dedication. My fellow musicians I know we all have a desire to achieve but please…please remember that God does the elevating not man.

Prov 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

[Steelpulz]

(From a previous post)
In a way, it is unscriptual NOT to pay musicians. "Biblically musicians (Levites) were recognized and paid for their services: And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the ...congregation. Numbers 18:21 [See also 2 Chronicles 31:2-10, Nehemiah 12:47 and Nehemiah 13.]
Quoted from The African-American Churh Musician's Compensation and Salary Handbookby R.W. Perry II. This is just a staring point in assessing whether musicians should get paid. There are also references in the New Testament, such as I Timothy 5:17-18, which clearly indicate that people in service to the church such as musicians should get paid. even though it looks like "people" are paying the musicians, isn't it really God doing it through his people.?

The Levites were priests, musicians(1 Chronicles 25:1-6) and singers (1Chronicles 6:31). Furthermore, God sanctified the entire tribe of Levi to Himself, and did not permit them to own land (Numbers 3, Deuteronomy 18:1-8, Joshua 13:14 & 13:33) so that it was difficult for them to support themselves. He provided for them through the tithes and offerings at the temples, (Leviticus 2:10 & 7:6, Numbers 18-21, 2 Chronicles 31:2-10, particularly verse 4, Nehemiah 12:47 & 13, particularly verses 5 and 10), just as he provided for the porters and the other priests.

Just as some of the Levites priestly functions are now carried out by Pastors, so are the singing and music ministries being carried out by today’s choirs and musicians. Consequently, it is unscriptural for a church to fail to pay its musicians. Of course anyone may decline payment if they choose to do so.

However, no one should ever be cowed into playing for free by those who say “The Lord will bless you real good you just keep on playing for him (for free)" while they pass the plate. True, the Lord will and does continue to bless. However, he also expects that seed will be planted into our ministries, because that is what we are doing, ministering, and he expects us to be good stewards.

Don't get me wrong, I frequently play for free or for a reduced fee....but I prefer to be the one to make the choice of whether I will play for free or not. I spend too much time in preparation, buying equipment and supplies, practicing, meditating and praying to be taken advantage of.

Anyway. that’s my 2 cents.

[laj528]

Ah yes the Levites …. The Levites…. Those that dedicated all to the ministry of God…… Kind of like Paul who made tents that is while he was not preaching … teaching…. or in prison….. (smile)

Again I feel what folk are saying. However,  I never read that a Levite quit his CALLED work to go to another for greater pay! Again we must be honest with ourselves is this a profession or is this a work for the Lord.

Let me reiterate I am not against a ministry supporting the ministry but I take issue with church hopping strictly due to money or promotion of man. Again this is a God issue. If a minister has an ear to hear God over the noise of fortune and fame then he or she will wont have to question if they should move or not. The love of God well that is everything …the love of money…I will let you all finish that one.

Just a thought………..

Your Servant in Christ

[thomas1168]

re laj528
But I did have to quit to feed my children not to go to another church but to free up time to take another job
I played with the church for over 2 years for free and still tithed thousands of dollars do very well with my business
But when my financial situation changed  I got spoken too about why I was not tithing that it was a requirement to tith
and why i was missing practice

[carlmack7183]

This is MY opinion:

The kid just turned 18, just graduated from high school, and playing bass is his job! He's going to college, so hey if the prosperity gospel church will make it easier for him to study and get paid to play for service and rehersal too, then I think he should go. Bottom line, this kid spent alot of money on his basses( Warwick FNA Jazzman V and MTD Kingston K5) and amps (all Ampeg), so if you want him to bring his gear, burn his gas, set up, pack it all up afterwards, and go to rehersal then he should be paid for his services. I play, and Im paid, so does that make me any less of a Christian b/c I accpet money for my services?? Musicians have a lot of influence on church services too, so I think its okay to pay them. After all he has done it for free for 10 years, his dues are paid.

By the way he decided to go ahead and play for Greater St. Stephen Full Gospel  pastored by the Bishop Paul S. Morton so hopefully we will hear him on a recording pretty soon.  Thanks everyone for the input

[TPCPastor]

laj528 ....PRAISE HIM!!!!

This brother asked the right question

Ministry or Occupation? .... That is the question that must be answered…..

[carlmack7183]

So you guys feel that if you are paid then it's an occupation, but if you do it for free then its ministry??? That makes no sense.

[LO_RIDER]

(From a previous post)
In a way, it is unscriptual NOT to pay musicians. "Biblically musicians (Levites) were recognized and paid for their services: And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the ...congregation. Numbers 18:21 [See also 2 Chronicles 31:2-10, Nehemiah 12:47 and Nehemiah 13.]
Quoted from The African-American Churh Musician's Compensation and Salary Handbookby R.W. Perry II. This is just a staring point in assessing whether musicians should get paid. There are also references in the New Testament, such as I Timothy 5:17-18, which clearly indicate that people in service to the church such as musicians should get paid. even though it looks like "people" are paying the musicians, isn't it really God doing it through his people.?

The Levites were priests, musicians(1 Chronicles 25:1-6) and singers (1Chronicles 6:31). Furthermore, God sanctified the entire tribe of Levi to Himself, and did not permit them to own land (Numbers 3, Deuteronomy 18:1-8, Joshua 13:14 & 13:33) so that it was difficult for them to support themselves. He provided for them through the tithes and offerings at the temples, (Leviticus 2:10 & 7:6, Numbers 18-21, 2 Chronicles 31:2-10, particularly verse 4, Nehemiah 12:47 & 13, particularly verses 5 and 10), just as he provided for the porters and the other priests.

Just as some of the Levites priestly functions are now carried out by Pastors, so are the singing and music ministries being carried out by today’s choirs and musicians. Consequently, it is unscriptural for a church to fail to pay its musicians. Of course anyone may decline payment if they choose to do so.

However, no one should ever be cowed into playing for free by those who say “The Lord will bless you real good you just keep on playing for him (for free)" while they pass the plate. True, the Lord will and does continue to bless. However, he also expects that seed will be planted into our ministries, because that is what we are doing, ministering, and he expects us to be good stewards.

Don't get me wrong, I frequently play for free or for a reduced fee....but I prefer to be the one to make the choice of whether I will play for free or not. I spend too much time in preparation, buying equipment and supplies, practicing, meditating and praying to be taken advantage of.

Anyway. that’s my 2 cents.

I have read the scriptures in the past just so I would know what I am talking about when I address church admin.  Thanks Steelpulz for bringing them to the table but I am convinced some church administration at least where I am from (Canada) DON"T read the whole bible.  I say this because when I have told them that paying the Modern day Levites would be scriptural they tell me "that's nonsense".  I have to rely on Galations 6:9 where it says  "And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."
It's my dream to be a staff musician at a growing bible based church ministry but until then I faint not.   

[laj528]

The intent is the question. What are you as an individual playing for God or money?
I am not saying or even insinuating that if you get paid it has to be your occupation and not a ministry!

The point is what drive you…MONEY….FAME….or GOD. If it is anything other than God you have sold out. Again this is a God thing….
If you have a spiritual ear then you will seek God for all of your decisions. Everything that looks good is not always good or even the will of GOD. 
As for my dear bass player who gave up to work a job. It is very difficult to speak to that.
I try never to 2nd guess another pastor especially with so little info. 

Ministers of bass please understand that just as I pastor without any monetary reward from the church and also have to work to provide for my family. I have refused many times to go to what looked like greener pastures with larger churches and much pay due to it not being what GOD wanted. I have learned that if I listen to Him I will never go wrong.  Again this is a God thing.  Pray about it.
Peace

[Steelpulz]

I agree laj528 that it is a God thing. Playing bass in the churches where I play has been a GREAT blessing for me. Hopefully, I have also blessed the ministries that I have been a part of.

However, that it is a God thing does not change the fact that many churches (deacons, trustees, pastors) do not fairly treat their musicians. Sometimes, as people of God, we are required to speak up. We are not required to be taken advantage of by these ministrires without the concomittant responsibility to inform them of the right, scriptural, fair and Godly way of doing things.

Although we must submit to church leadership, we are not required to blindly follow the directives of anyone if those directives don't line up with scripture. It is my responsibility for myself and my family to know if a directive or rule lines up.  If Paul said that even what he said should be measured against God's Word and Will, we should be able to measure ourselves and our leaders against Scripture.

That being said, I have found that there are some churches that will absolutely take advantage of a musician if they can. Although I am now being paid by the churches I play for...some pay little above nothing..I still often play for free. But, I am the one who decides when that happens. It is my gift to play for free on some occasions.

 

[musiqisme26]

So you guys feel that if you are paid then it's an occupation, but if you do it for free then its ministry??? That makes no sense.

especially since most preacher get paid for ministering at other churches and even thier own.

tell dude i said congrats and hope to hear him killing it over there with bishop morton

[harveyd]

As longs as he remembers Who blessed him with it (God).

[godsbassman2000]

Does it have to be right or wrong? He should not be made to feel guilty if he decides to leave, and hopefully he won't regret it if he stays.