Is Gospel now R&B??

[Andrzej]

This post is not really to do with bass...more to do with the Gospel music itself.

I had an interesting conversation with a music lover at my Church a few days ago.  He was reminiscing over the days that we used to play a lot more Gospel/Funk songs a few years back and how our Church has moved onto more contemporary praise & worship.

His opinion was that a lot of Gospel music that he listens to at home has become very R&B influenced and that the term ‘Gospel’ is no longer accurate.  Now, when I asked him what he defines as Gospel and his reply was “like what you see in the Blues Brothers movie when James Brown takes the part of the preacher!”.  I couldn’t help but laugh!  I then gave him my view that Gospel is not necessarily one style of music, but a melting pot of several styles that has been picked up over the past 50yrs or so such as Funk, Soul, Jazz and Motown.  I believe modern R&B has been forged from the influence of Gospel styles, but I still regard that flavour as Gospel, just like Rock’n’Roll in the 50’s was taken from 12-bar Blues…underneath it’s still 12-bar Blues, but in a new form.  It’s the way music travels and progresses and Gospel music has been around for a long time.  It will take new shapes and forms to lead it into a new generation of music.  It all comes back to where it originated.

He still wasn’t too convinced.  He said that he visits a Church in London when he goes to see his family and he said that the music there is like going to a Destiny Child concert.  He said that he feels like entertainment more than praise & worship and he finds it hard to be a part of it as the musicians and singers are so dominant.  One thing he said really stuck in my memory…he said, “It is like watching a very well tuned performance instead of being there to participate”.  It begs the question whether the band and singers are leading the praise & worship or controlling it.  Even though my Church plays more contemporary styles these days from when I was playing full-time, I can sometimes see the same attributes he was referring to.

It was a compelling dilemma that he raised.  As a non-musician I take his and other peoples views and opinions more seriously than a musician.  Most of the congregation that goes to Church every meeting are non-musicians and pick up on things that we may not.  They are there to receive, but also to give and being able to strike a balance is important.

What are your views?

[jeremyr]

I think your friend is dead on. 

[B3Wannabe]

Indeed.

A lot of times the Music Department forgets that it's there to lead the congregation, instead of giving a show. The most important thing in leading is not LEAVING your people behind. If the Music Department goes off into its own thing and the congregation is barely participating, or not getting the FULL effect of what you're suppose to be ministering, then you have to turn around and go get them. The time you can go off into your own world is when you're alone, not when you're leading. Many times people say "we're doing this for God, not for the people", but that's only partially true. John 21 talks about this. The disciples were out doing their own thing. The price of being a leader is that you can't do your own thing. You have to consider the people.

[djgroovin]

I remember when I was a kid at a GOGIC church.  Praise and Worship was the earlier part of service when everyone would sing, cry, holla, run around the church.  It was not until I got older that I understood that it was a personal connection with GOD to thank him for his grace and mercy.

I used to love it when the choir would march in with their robes and steps.  If the MASS or Youth Choir was singing that Sunday I did my best to stay awake.  As a kid I looked forward to that part of church.  To me it was entertainment.

Now that I'm older, as a musician in the church I realize that when it's time for the choir to sing it has a different purpose then Praise and Worship.  It is more of a testimony in song.  You are telling people what GOD has done and what he can do.  Be it R&B style, Latin, Rock, Funk, Jazz...whateva...as long as it has GOD in it, I'm with it.

[Mysteryman]

I believe what you are saying. Eventhough gospel artist dont want to admitt it its becoming more of entertainment than ministry though the ministry tag is put to everything. I think there are many factors invovled in deciphering gospel music. I personally feel the musician must be conscious of the church environment and culture of the church. The spirit of the pastor is over the church so the music must fit his ministry. Also the music should fit the culture of the people in that church because it makes them feel more a part of the church. I know many musicians want to change the music standards set in a certain church to fit the fad of the moment but that does not always work. Im in a somewhat new/old school Apostolic church. The other musicians always trying to imitate the new school but thats not the atmosphere my pastor has setup. I play at a Cogic church and a song that may have the church rocking there will not have much of an effect at my church.

I responed to a post in the keyboard room. When I listen to certain gospel artists it sounds like broadway. If music is used in movies to create a certain mood this same spirit will end up in the churches. If your pastor wants entertainment then I guess thats what he gets. lol I believe all these things have their perspective places. Concert music at a concert, worship music at a worship service.

[DWBass]

I think it's always been 'R&B'! I also agree it seems to have become more of a 'performance' as opposed to the old style of the entire church singing hymns 'together'! I feel what your friend is saying. I have to say though that I do like the new urban gospel sound as opposed to listening to traditional hymns some of which were written centuries ago! 

[BassAddict]

I personally do put gospel in a box like it has been said gospel music is a melting pot for all genres of music. The reason for that is "Gospel" isnt a sound it is a message so if I put the message of Christ over a Beyonce' beat is it not gospel? (a la' James Fortune) of course it is eventhough some ppl may argue that fact but it is true. Our job as musicians isnt to be a show, it is to open the door so that Christ can be glorified, so again (I personally) believe that gospel can be R&B, Hip Hop, Rock, Jazz, Latin, Contemporary, Techno, Classical, Country, or whatever else is out there AS LONG AS IT GLORIFIES GOD.

[funkStrat_97]

Contemporary black gospel has always been influenced by other contemporary styles of black music (funk, r&b, hip-hop).  As with contemporary Chrstian music (CCM), the genre is defined soley by its lyrical content rathern the the format.  So weather it is blues, jazz, r&b, or rock really doesn't matter.  It's all about the message of the music.  Now your friend does make some good points.  Worship leaders, musicians, and singers need to be lead by the Holy Spirit to attain the right balance of song selections.  Music is a very complex artform that has elements of entertainment as well as ministry deeply interwoven together.  With regards to musical style, I think that many people will agrere that tradional black gospel, older choir music, and even early contemporary gospel had a unique feel.  They may have been influenced by other styles like the blues, but there was something unique about them.

[LovetaBass]

It is my humble opinion that Gospel is Gospel whether is rapped, sung with a contemporary, R&B, pop, reggae or whatever twist, the Gospel of Jesus Christ will still be the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It has the power to save no matter who or where the listener may be. Gospel music changed as Shirley Caesar left and Andre' Crouch came in, and then changed as he left and Kirk Franklin came in, and it changed again as folks like the Cross Movement came on the scene. Music is evolutionary and the gospel is revolutionary, they must be combined to reach the lost. The Gospel is the same but the ministers are different. Just like there was a difference between the Apostles who wrote the synoptic gospels but the message at its core was still the same ( in other words Mark didn't write like Matthew, Luke or John), so it is in this Gospel music arena. Although some people go overboard in my opinion (but that's just my opinion) i think we have to realize that there are people in positions that God may not have ordained them to be in. Maybe the P & W team in London may have been called to go on tour, while there may be some folks touring London who God may have called to be leading P & W.  This my opinion, and only that.   

[Keys410]

I also believe Gospel music is a melting pot of all Genre's mixed to Glorify Christ. Honestly, most of the R&B singers started in the church so thats where they really developed the style and groove(Just my opinion). Me personally I am new to the keys but my style tends to lean towards R&B and Neo soul movements more than traditional Gospel or " Church Music". I feel what you are saying about it becoming more a show or performance. Thats what makes it more like R&B because now you have a beat but no anointing behind it. I feel some P&W leaders do take it as "Its my time to shine" and more flesh then spirit is involved.

[funkStrat_97]

BTW, the current issue of Jet has an article about gospel titled "Old School Or New School Gospel Music Is Everlasting".  I'll be reading that on the train ride home from work today.

[thomas1168]

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVERYONE BECAUSE EVERYONES HAS EXCELLENT POINTS
BUT REALLY THINK ABOUT IT REALLY THINK ABOUT IT
IT IS NOT THE STYLE OF MUSIC YOU ARE USING TO PRAISE GOD WITH
THAT IS YOUR CHOICE AS A MUSICIAN AND THE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT ARE IN YOUR CHURCH THINK ABOUT IF YOU STARTED OF PRIASE AND WORSHIP AT A
CONSEVERATIVE ALL WHITE CHURCH( NO RACIAL INTENTED JUST AN EXAMPLE AND I AM WHITE ANYWAYS SO TOOBAD) YOU START PLAYING SOME OF THE FUNKIEST FRED HAMMOND SONGS THEY COULD NOT RELATE IT WOULD NOT BE PRAISE AND WORSHIP IT WOULD BE A BAND PLAYING MUSIC AND VIS VERSA
AT MY CHURCH IF I STARTED TO PLAY SOME UPBEAT CHRISTIAN ROCK YES IT IS STILL PRAISE BUT MY FELLOW CHURCH MEMBERS WOULD NOT RELATE TO IT
SO AS MUSICIANS OR CHURCH FOLK WE CAN NOT LABEL GOSPEL BECAUSE IT IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE ( TASTE)

NOW FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO GOSPEL MUSIC
YOU GUY ALREADY KNOW
SOME CAME ALONG AND SAID WOW WITH A LITTLE MARKETING AND SOME POLISH WE CAN MAKE ALOT OF MONEY OF THIS STUFF
AND WHILE EVERYONE IS THINKING WE ARE DOING THIS FOR GOD WE WILL GET PAYED

I REMEMBER WHEN YOU DID NOT HAVE TO PLAY WITH MAJOR RECORDING ARTISTS TO PLAY A A BIG CHURCH
NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY CHURCH WANTS THE BEST MUSICIANS BUT PLEASE CORRECT ME

IT HAS GONE WAY TOO FAR
HALF OF THE GOSPEL GROUPS ARE MADE UP FROM SECULAR BANDS THAT ARE OUT OF THE NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT JUST USING GOSPEL AS A CAREER MOVE
THAT WHAT IS MAKING THE PERFORMANCE VIEWS COME OUT
BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE CAN TELL IF IT IS FROM THE HEART OR FOR MONEY  OR PERSONAL GLORY

[jeremyr]

I REMEMBER WHEN YOU DID NOT HAVE TO PLAY WITH MAJOR RECORDING ARTISTS TO PLAY A A BIG CHURCH
NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY CHURCH WANTS THE BEST MUSICIANS BUT PLEASE CORRECT ME

IT HAS GONE WAY TOO FAR
HALF OF THE GOSPEL GROUPS ARE MADE UP FROM SECULAR BANDS THAT ARE OUT OF THE NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT JUST USING GOSPEL AS A CAREER MOVE
THAT WHAT IS MAKING THE PERFORMANCE VIEWS COME OUT
BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE CAN TELL IF IT IS FROM THE HEART OR FOR MONEY  OR PERSONAL GLORY

A-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!

I made a post about these very type of musicians on my myspace page.

[thomas1168]

BUT A FRIEND FROM DALLAS JUST CALLED ME
AND I HAVE TO STAY REAL
THERE ARE PEOLPLE THAT HAVE PLAYED IN CHURCH SINCE THEY WERE CHILDREN AND HAVE TAKEN UT TO A NATIONAL LEVEL FOR GODS GLORY AND HIS GLORY ONLY HARD THING TO DO BUT THEY HAVE (WITH EGOS VANITY ECT) BUT THERE ARE ARTIST OUT THERE THAT HAVE

AND MY BOY BROUGHT UP A VERY GOOD POINT ARE WE JELOUS THAT WE ARE NOT THE ONES IN THE SPOT LIGHT PRAISING GOD BECAUSE GOD IS ABLE TO RECIEVE PRAISE FROM THE BEST MUSICIAN AND THE WORST
SOME TIMES I AM IT DOES BOTHER ME THAT YOU HAVE TO BE A SUPERSTAR ALMOST TO HAVE YOUR PRAISE MUSIC EXCEPTED
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ALL ARE TO BLAME

[jeremyr]

AND MY BOY BROUGHT UP A VERY GOOD POINT ARE WE JELOUS THAT WE ARE NOT THE ONES IN THE SPOT LIGHT PRAISING GOD BECAUSE GOD IS ABLE TO RECIEVE PRAISE FROM THE BEST MUSICIAN AND THE WORST
SOME TIMES I AM IT DOES BOTHER ME THAT YOU HAVE TO BE A SUPERSTAR ALMOST TO HAVE YOUR PRAISE MUSIC EXCEPTED
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ALL ARE TO BLAME

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be just as happy praising the Lord in my 150 member chruch as I would in a 200,000 venue.  To me praise is praise.  Like Shekinah Glory Ministry said "Praise is what I do".

[thomas1168]

MY BOY GETS PAID 63,000 A YEAR TO PLAY DRUMS
TRAVELS WITH THE CHURCH AND ALL EXPENSIS PAID

MY SOUL JUST AS HAPPY I 100 PERCENT AGREE WITH YOU J

BUT MY FLESH MAN

THATS WHAT IM TALKING BOUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO JUST PLAY FOR A LIVING

[jeremyr]

IT WOULD BE NICE TO JUST PLAY FOR A LIVING

you aint neva lied!!!!

[laj528]

Quick question....

Did Gospel music come from secular music or did secular music come from Gospel?

A large % of secular  artist came out of the church. I reiterate out of the church. I believe that God has his ministers who please him and the enemy has those that please him.

I take the position that Gospel is not a genre but a form of worship towards God and inspiration to Gods people.
So is Gospel R&B? Nope it cant be R&B is music to move the flesh and Gospel is music to move God.

Keep in mind that those that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

IMHO 

Peace

[thomas1168]

NO GOSPEL IS NOT R&B

IT IS JAZZ FUNK ROCK COUNTRY CLASSICAL BLUES AND R&B MIXED TOGETHER

AND WHY SHOULD NOT GOSPEL BE MAINSTREM LIKE R&B YOU MEAN TO TELL ME GOD WOULD NOT WANT PRAISE MUSIC ON THE MAIN LINE

THE ONLY REASON THAT IT GETS STICKY LIKE I SAID BEFORE IS THAT THE RECORD COMPANIES TAKE AWAY THE TRUE PURPOSE FOR A PROFIT AND CHANGE THE WHOLE REASON BEHIND THE MUSIC

AND NOW YOUR THE JUDGE / CONDEMER SO ALL ARTIST THAT CAME OUT OF THE CHURCH / CAME OUT OF THE CHURCH
OR ALL ARTIST THAT PERFORM NON GOSPEL MUSIC WORK FOR THE ENEMY
THAT A PRETTY BROAD STATMENT AND JUDGEFULL STATEMENT

SO FEEL FREE TO CONDEM A WHOLE LOT A PEOPLE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT

AND ILL LEAVE THE GOD ARGUMENT ALONE

MUSIC ALL MUSIC LET ME REPEAT THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EVIL MUSIC
I HAVE LISTEN TO LOVE SONGS THAT MOVED ME TO BE A BETTER HUSBAND LOVE MY WIFE MORE
MUST OF BEEN ONE OF THOSE ENEMY SERVING ARTISTS

[musiqisme26]

Gospel Music the genre is Missing Choirs now all we have is groups