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Offline BEATBOXERZ

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 01:40:49 PM »
True.  As I've said, in some people's mind, the drummer is the drummer, but the bassist, Organist, and keyboardist are "musicians".

If you take away the keyboardist, and still have the Organist, Bassist and Drummer, you can still kill a service.

If you take away the Organist and still have the Keyboardist, Bassist and Drummer, you can still kill a service.

If you take away the Bassist and still have the Organist, Keyboardist and Drummer, you can still kill a service.

But take away the drummer? 

Or take away a sick drummer and replace him with a novice?

The drums are the only "necessary" instrument.  A service wouldn't be the same without us.
Yes Sirr, Case closed.

MaestroDivine

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2006, 02:25:12 PM »
This may be VERY controversial to some people......

.....however.....

An online friend of mine told me the drummer is being paid 100 dollars a Sunday. He's being paid 500, but he's the organist/plays boards, and is the MoM.

....Cool.

The Pastor get's paid 3000 a Sunday. I'm so sorry, but is that really necessary? Imagine if he took a pay cut ... and had to [begin sarcasm]settle[/end sarcasm] for 2500 per week, the drummer the drummer could paid more than a MEASLEY 100 dollars!

I know what some of you are thinking,*cues Theological Seminary Graduate/T.D. Jakes-esque voice* "But that's the man of God!"

Great. Sweet. Perfection. However, I don't know what it's like up NORTH, but down south, if you don't have a good music department, you don't have a church. Heck, I know people who will be all into the service while the music is going, but will turn their ears OFF when the Pastor is teaching/preaching.

My point?

I'm not saying that the musicians are more important than the pastor, in theory .... but, if you want to keep it REALLY real....you can preach the angels out of heaven, but great musicians/choir tends to draw the crowds. Of course, you'll find it difficult gettin' people to admit that.

Before you say, 'Well my church ain't like that!", I'm not saying EVERY church is like this - however, I've been around, and I know what I've been seeing all my life.

To summarize: The weaker the music department, the smaller the congregation, from my experience. Lastly, the message SHOULD be most important, however many people don't treat it as such. People can tell you what the choir sang, but not what the Pastor taught.

Soooo, let's stop treating musicians like red-headed step children. As far as I'm concerned, musicians are being under-paid.

HustleMan

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2006, 02:36:37 PM »
This may be VERY controversial to some people......

.....however.....

An online friend of mine told me the drummer is being paid 100 dollars a Sunday. He's being paid 500, but he's the organist/plays boards, and is the MoM.

....Cool.

The Pastor get's paid 3000 a Sunday. I'm so sorry, but is that really necessary? Imagine if he took a pay cut ... and had to [begin sarcasm]settle[/end sarcasm] for 2500 per week, the drummer the drummer could paid more than a MEASLEY 100 dollars!

I know what some of you are thinking,*cues Theological Seminary Graduate/T.D. Jakes-esque voice* "But that's the man of God!"

Great. Sweet. Perfection. However, I don't know what it's like up NORTH, but down south, if you don't have a good music department, you don't have a church. Heck, I know people who will be all into the service while the music is going, but will turn their ears OFF when the Pastor is teaching/preaching.

My point?

I'm not saying that the musicians are more important than the pastor, in theory .... but, if you want to keep it REALLY real....you can preach the angels out of heaven, but great musicians/choir tends to draw the crowds. Of course, you'll find it difficult gettin' people to admit that.

Before you say, 'Well my church ain't like that!", I'm not saying EVERY church is like this - however, I've been around, and I know what I've been seeing all my life.

To summarize: The weaker the music department, the smaller the congregation, from my experience. Lastly, the message SHOULD be most important, however many people don't treat it as such. People can tell you what the choir sang, but not what the Pastor taught.

Soooo, let's stop treating musicians like red-headed step children. As far as I'm concerned, musicians are being under-paid.

Yes, the music department is extremely important.

There are people who pick a church as much for the music as for the Pastor.  It's true.  I've seen it.  Some people wanna come get their shout on, and the Preaching is just another portion of the service.

If the church can afford to give the Pastor a personal salary of $3,000 per week, I don't think the church is struggling.  He doesn't NEED to take a pay cut.  He should simply pay the drummer more.  Many churches (mine) don't even bring in $3,000 per week.  This is probably a fairly large church, with a very high cost of operation, and obviously a healthy income. 

They can afford to pay the drummer more without the Pastor taking a pay cut.  But drummers are widely disrespected.  And trust me, if the drummer asks for more, doesn't get it, and decides to leave......there will be another drummer out there ready to take that $100 per week.

Oh, and red-headed step-children?  I WILL be using that one!   :D

MaestroDivine

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2006, 02:50:55 PM »
.  But drummers are widely disrespected.  And trust me, if the drummer asks for more, doesn't get it, and decides to leave......there will be another drummer out there ready to take that $100 per week.

That's the sad thing about it.

I find it very interesting that the Pastor can be paid much more many than he/she need's per week, and yet the musicians are out of order if they ask for more. I also find if funny that, when Pastor is ready to tune up, and that organist don't come in on time, he get's the 'eye'. Nah, uh Mr. 3, 000 dollar per/week! If you can command that kind of salary, then you don't need my help!

Some of ya'll can sit here talking about "I play for the Lord", but you have to stand up for yourself, when you see you're being under-valued/taken advantage of. Church SHOULD all about God, but they're paying SALARIES in church now. People will take advantage of you, if you don't understand your worth and/or have the courage to speak up. Yes, they will do it in church too, believe it or not.

This became an issue when 'ministries' started to become more like 'businesses'. Heh, church is a long way from the one room building, and the old lady beating a tambourine, and someone playing a scrub-board, lol.

Offline BEATBOXERZ

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2006, 02:56:55 PM »
This may be VERY controversial to some people......

.....however.....

An online friend of mine told me the drummer is being paid 100 dollars a Sunday. He's being paid 500, but he's the organist/plays boards, and is the MoM.

....Cool.

The Pastor get's paid 3000 a Sunday. I'm so sorry, but is that really necessary? Imagine if he took a pay cut ... and had to [begin sarcasm]settle[/end sarcasm] for 2500 per week, the drummer the drummer could paid more than a MEASLEY 100 dollars!

I know what some of you are thinking,*cues Theological Seminary Graduate/T.D. Jakes-esque voice* "But that's the man of God!"

Great. Sweet. Perfection. However, I don't know what it's like up NORTH, but down south, if you don't have a good music department, you don't have a church. Heck, I know people who will be all into the service while the music is going, but will turn their ears OFF when the Pastor is teaching/preaching.

My point?

I'm not saying that the musicians are more important than the pastor, in theory .... but, if you want to keep it REALLY real....you can preach the angels out of heaven, but great musicians/choir tends to draw the crowds. Of course, you'll find it difficult gettin' people to admit that.

Before you say, 'Well my church ain't like that!", I'm not saying EVERY church is like this - however, I've been around, and I know what I've been seeing all my life.

To summarize: The weaker the music department, the smaller the congregation, from my experience. Lastly, the message SHOULD be most important, however many people don't treat it as such. People can tell you what the choir sang, but not what the Pastor taught.

Soooo, let's stop treating musicians like red-headed step children. As far as I'm concerned, musicians are being under-paid.
AMEN, This is alll so true. My chruch is a prime example of it. Not to say that it's right, but if you only Knew the history of my Pastor and all the stuff that as gone down you would clearly see the whole picture.

Offline drummer_boi23

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2006, 03:07:43 PM »
I GOT A HOMEY OF MINE THAT GETS PAID $400 HE PLAYS THE KEYS. THE CHURCH HAVE A NICE DRUMMER BUT THE ARE ONLY PAYING HIOME LIKE $75. NOW TELL ME IF THAT ISN'T A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

it depends if the drummers like a 13 year old kid hes doesnt need 400$ a service but if ur comparing that to a male/female that does it as a profession then i think thats reasonable.

but if thats not the case and in the same situation you would look at them both as equal i would talk to the board to reach a agreement and if that doesnt work i would find a new gig. its only fair that musicians are treated equally
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HustleMan

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2006, 03:13:51 PM »
That's the sad thing about it.

I find it very interesting that the Pastor can be paid much more many than he/she need's per week, and yet the musicians are out of order if they ask for more. I also find if funny that, when Pastor is ready to tune up, and that organist don't come in on time, he get's the 'eye'. Nah, uh Mr. 3, 000 dollar per/week! If you can command that kind of salary, then you don't need my help!

Some of ya'll can sit here talking about "I play for the Lord", but you have to stand up for yourself, when you see you're being under-valued/taken advantage of. Church SHOULD all about God, but they're paying SALARIES in church now. People will take advantage of you, if you don't understand your worth and/or have the courage to speak up. Yes, they will do it in church too, believe it or not.

This became an issue when 'ministries' started to become more like 'businesses'. Heh, church is a long way from the one room building, and the old lady beating a tambourine, and someone playing a scrub-board, lol.


Yo, I went to a church earlier this year and there was this lady playing a scrubbing board.  Me and my wife just looked at each other like  :D

I belong to a small ministry.  I know for a fact (as I used to volunteer for the church, and saw the income), that there isn't enough money coming in to pay me.  Also, I'm not attending this church to play the drums.  I've been in this ministry from the time I was 10, and didn't start play till a few years ago.  It's my home church.

HOWEVER,

If the ministry grows to the point where there is an abundance of finance, I WILL be making my request for a salary.  If it doesn't, then I will be glad to play for the Lord, because in all honesty, I don't play for money.  I play because I love to play and I see music as another form of worship.

I can go off on a tangent a page long and talk about how when I'm on the Organ, I can worship the Lord in a way that a voice simply can't.

Simply put, if you're in a fairly large ministry, you should be paid.  $100 per week for a large ministry is chump change.  Do you want to be the chump?  I didn't think so.

Offline sugabear

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2006, 03:40:17 PM »
Well, well, well... I was attending a megachurch down here in Tampa, FL (Without Walls International Church; Pastors Randy and Paula White). This church boasts membership of 28,000 people and they do not pay their musicians one red cent. The only person on the music staff that gets paid is the music director. Being a musician at the church requires you to be present at 3 services a Sunday, 1 service on Saturday, 1 service on Thursday, and choir rehearsal on Wednesday. That's part-time job hours right there, so where's the part-time paycheck?
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HustleMan

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2006, 03:52:44 PM »
Well, well, well... I was attending a megachurch down here in Tampa, FL (Without Walls International Church; Pastors Randy and Paula White). This church boasts membership of 28,000 people and they do not pay their musicians one red cent. The only person on the music staff that gets paid is the music director. Being a musician at the church requires you to be present at 3 services a Sunday, 1 service on Saturday, 1 service on Thursday, and choir rehearsal on Wednesday. That's part-time job hours right there, so where's the part-time paycheck?

 :o :o :o :o :o

Offline BEATBOXERZ

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2006, 03:57:25 PM »
Well, well, well... I was attending a megachurch down here in Tampa, FL (Without Walls International Church; Pastors Randy and Paula White). This church boasts membership of 28,000 people and they do not pay their musicians one red cent. The only person on the music staff that gets paid is the music director. Being a musician at the church requires you to be present at 3 services a Sunday, 1 service on Saturday, 1 service on Thursday, and choir rehearsal on Wednesday. That's part-time job hours right there, so where's the part-time paycheck?
You have gots to be kidding Bruh? WOW... That is most def. a part-time job. I see that lady on T.V. in Cali all the time... Well, if the musicians are willing to do it for free, then God Bless em'.... I use to get payed at my little chruch, but I don't no more. I scaled back my particapation in the music ministry because of personal and spiritual reason, not because of money. I gave up my check because of some serious dirt that went down.  :-X :-X :-X

MaestroDivine

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2006, 04:24:27 PM »
Well, well, well... I was attending a megachurch down here in Tampa, FL (Without Walls International Church; Pastors Randy and Paula White). This church boasts membership of 28,000 people and they do not pay their musicians one red cent. The only person on the music staff that gets paid is the music director. Being a musician at the church requires you to be present at 3 services a Sunday, 1 service on Saturday, 1 service on Thursday, and choir rehearsal on Wednesday. That's part-time job hours right there, so where's the part-time paycheck?

She had Donald Trump and some other mega-rich dude on TV this morning talking about how to aquire wealth. I bet she ain't hurting for nothin', and I'm willing to bet the congregation is the reason why.

I wonder what's their reason for not paying their musicians? I bet they can come up with some scripture to justify it, yet, for whatever reason, the same doesn't apply to them.

Twenty-eight thousand members? Pfft!

Give me a break.

Boy if this wasn't a Christian website, I'd let 'er rip.

Offline jax19

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2006, 07:22:04 PM »
yo i agree w/ alot thats been said, im a central new york state drummer and im telling u i gets no love, if i wasn't holyghost filled i wouldn't be playin da drums at all, i play every week and alot of times multiply times a week cuz my church has lots of events, and i don't get a dime.... also i drove to this church bout an hour away yesterday and played, drove my car and brought my own gear and didn't get a penny the pastor of that church just said god bless u brother and his wife gave me a little decorated bag with 2 sticks of gum 2 peppermints a pen and a track...lol.. thats crazy right... i could understand if i was a wack drummer but im in college full time, work 2 jobs, and a bunch of other things on my plate, and i still practice at least 3 times a week for hours at a time my pastor is mad cool but i feel i being used big time and it is very discouraging i must admit, im one of the best drummers in my area which has a lot of musicians and im not sayin this to brag, im just sayin what people tell me and everyone says how humble i am in general without even knowing my situation... my dilemma is, is it the enemy or God telling me to put my foot down about the whole matter? anyone with serious advice please holla atcha boy... god bless!
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Offline musiqisme26

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2006, 07:40:42 PM »
i dont think that it matter of which instrument is more important moreso than it is the responsibilities required of an organist. i would say 60%-70% are required when hire to teach choir/praise team parts. whens the last time you heard of a preacher travelling with just his drummer and no organist intentionally.

and lets clarify something i take no engagements without a good drummer and if one wont be provided i pay out of my pocket to bring one just ask cedric easton or nate parker 2 of columbus, ohio's better drummers.

but i also say if im playing during service(talk music, start of backing up the preacher) when the drummer is not why should i take same or lesser pay and this is based off the previous arguments as to why a drummer should be paid the same or better.

its football season the cowboys-giants game is coming on so ill leave this with yall QB's are usually the highest paid football player on thier team but they wouldnt be stars with thier lesser paid offensive line protecting them.

Offline BEATBOXERZ

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2006, 07:53:48 PM »
i dont think that it matter of which instrument is more important moreso than it is the responsibilities required of an organist. i would say 60%-70% are required when hire to teach choir/praise team parts. whens the last time you heard of a preacher travelling with just his drummer and no organist intentionally.

and lets clarify something i take no engagements without a good drummer and if one wont be provided i pay out of my pocket to bring one just ask cedric easton or nate parker 2 of columbus, ohio's better drummers.

but i also say if im playing during service(talk music, start of backing up the preacher) when the drummer is not why should i take same or lesser pay and this is based off the previous arguments as to why a drummer should be paid the same or better.

its football season the cowboys-giants game is coming on so ill leave this with yall QB's are usually the highest paid football player on thier team but they wouldnt be stars with thier lesser paid offensive line protecting them.
Dude you missed the whole point of this thread. The organist should be payed more than all the musicians. But as far as the keyboardist and I'll throw the bass player in there to since you showed up in here, NO!!! Y'all shouldn't get paid more than the drummer. The music ministry doesn't need bass player or a keyboardist over a drummer. The organist can handle your part with his feet. You just a luxury as I said before. Go watch the game, cause I am.

Boy that was a nice play Eli and Plax made...

Offline musiqisme26

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2006, 10:23:25 PM »
Dude you missed the whole point of this thread. The organist should be payed more than all the musicians. But as far as the keyboardist and I'll throw the bass player in there to since you showed up in here, NO!!! Y'all shouldn't get paid more than the drummer. The music ministry doesn't need bass player or a keyboardist over a drummer. The organist can handle your part with his feet. You just a luxury as I said before. Go watch the game, cause I am.

Boy that was a nice play Eli and Plax made...

its cool but you misread my post but its ok. i referred to organist as the primary not keys or bass (and if you check my profile I am an organist thats changing over to bass) however a drummer over a keyboardist is cutting it kinda close point #1 still in this day and age not all churches have an organ which mean keys run the service, #2 in this era of church keys playing has become more of a prominent role and can handle bass with his left also he sequence a drum track.

your luxury statement i find hilarious cuz there probaly not maybe 1 or 2 organist or drummer in any church that wouldnt want to play with a solid bass player but its still funny considering im a organist

Offline BEATBOXERZ

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2006, 10:44:12 PM »
its cool but you misread my post but its ok. i referred to organist as the primary not keys or bass (and if you check my profile I am an organist thats changing over to bass) however a drummer over a keyboardist is cutting it kinda close point #1 still in this day and age not all churches have an organ which mean keys run the service, #2 in this era of church keys playing has become more of a prominent role and can handle bass with his left also he sequence a drum track.

your luxury statement i find hilarious cuz there probaly not maybe 1 or 2 organist or drummer in any church that wouldnt want to play with a solid bass player but its still funny considering im a organist
Trust me dude, I LOVE Great bass players and would welcome them anyday of the week into my life. Bass players are a drummers best friend. But you are exspendable if there is a organist. Bottom line. If you read my proflie I play keys and have been since I was 18 yrs old. And if the keyboardist is the lead instrument then yes I agree with you, but if there is a organist he can go away too and we will still keep it moving. And sequencing a drum track is so dum, because like said before, most keyboardist in the chruch can't even do that right. They know one or two patches out of 1000, piano and strings. And yes you bass players are a luxury to me like it or not. Would love to have you though. ;)

Offline fretai03

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2006, 11:07:20 PM »
That's strange cause where I live a church considers a drummer is "a road less travelled" if you catch my drift.
In fact so is an organist.

What hold's down a lot of services here is keys & a gat (at the most a bass can be added as well) and if the church had to pick out of a drummer or a bass guitarist they'd pick neither & just find a second keys person just because they'd want to make sure there is always someone on the keys. ::)

Offline BEATBOXERZ

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2006, 11:15:52 PM »
That's strange cause where I live a church considers a drummer is "a road less travelled" if you catch my drift.
In fact so is an organist.

What hold's down a lot of services here is keys & a gat (at the most a bass can be added as well) and if the church had to pick out of a drummer or a bass guitarist they'd pick neither & just find a second keys person just because they'd want to make sure there is always someone on the keys. ::)
Man in the African American Chruch the organist and the drummer are the one who hold down the service. If there is no organist and the keyboard player is the lead musician then he/she is consider the highest paid. No problem with that. Rhythm is everything in the Black Chruch. If you take the drummer out of the black chruch you will have a problem.

Offline baggettcindy

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2006, 12:29:19 AM »
I think many people think it requires more skill to play the organ/keyboard than the drums.  I think it would be harder to replace an organist than a drummer.  If I had a choice between a drummer and no organist/keyboard player and keyboard player/organist and no drummer...give me the organ/keyboard.  They are both important....just that in many churches you have quite a few guys/gals playing the drums, but not so much keyboard/organ.

HustleMan

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Re: How much should a drummer get paid if ?
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2006, 11:26:42 AM »
Man in the African American Chruch the organist and the drummer are the one who hold down the service. If there is no organist and the keyboard player is the lead musician then he/she is consider the highest paid. No problem with that. Rhythm is everything in the Black Chruch. If you take the drummer out of the black chruch you will have a problem.

Amen.  Drummers are NECESSARY.  As I said before.  Organists aren't NECESSARY if you have a keys player, and a keys player isn't NECESSARY if you have an Organist.  and a Bass Player isn't NECESSARY if you have a really good Organist (who can run the baseline in his left hand or with his foot.

Who's going to make up for not having a drummer?!?!

I don't care WHAT kind of drum sequence you have.  There's no substitute for a live drummer.  You can signal the drummer and have different cues and signs to do different things at different times.  No substitute.
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