Musicians Getting paid on sundays

[divinemusician]

The figures are "$450.00" and "$25.00"...just to put it in perspective...lol

To me either why it don't matter. I guess  I come from a backwood... (not really) church... about 200 members if that... I dont play for a mega church or over a 500 members or whatever so I guess I don't understand this.... but whether it is 450.00 or 45.00 to me it still don't matter... he don't knwo the whole story! And if he does.... still what does it matter she still going to get paid.

Like I said I am not a good musician nor do I play for a big church... but I do know that I am a faithful musician, and I make every rehearsal, pracitice, etc whatever I am there and I dont look for nothing in return BUT THAT IS MY WALK AND I DON'T EXPECT ANYBODY TO BE LIKE ME. I play where the main musicians our organist is nver at church but he gets a check, the guitar player doesn't come to rehearsal NEVER!! but he gets a check the drummer is the only one really faithful and even then he do't come to church durning the week but he gets a check... But I could care less thats not my concern.... anywho... I guess being a musician is not all do so I don't too much care about it...

I will go on record and say... I am sorry for my two cents but not what I said... I just dont' understand ya'll situation, I really don't...

I think what you said here in bold, is the issue...It goes both ways...

Some churches have the funds to pay their musicians, but if the musician doesn't ask, the church just won't give or will give sparingly...even if the musician has gone above and beyond.

I can't speak for other musicians, but I have played for many churches without payment.  The issue was not about just playing on Sunday morning without payment...after a while, it got to a point, where we had numerous rehearsals where I had to teach songs (preparation time to teach during week), Special Events, Special Services, etc.,.  At some point it does starts to hit your pocket when this happens; and for a church not to recognize that they should compensate fairly for services rendered and expenses incurred when they have the means to do so...is  IMHO.

And to this... I see where you are coming from however whether a church has it or not... I have never seen the rightious forsaken or his seek begging bread. I think the close we walk with God, he will continue to lead and guide us and when we need he will provide!! Bottom line whether the church has it or not. God will lead you on what to say, when to say it, etc. Just my two cents....

Then again, I guess I just don't get it...

[cas10a]

To me either why it don't matter.

I will go on record and say... I am sorry for my two cents but not what I said... I just dont' understand ya'll situation, I really don't...

And to this... I see where you are coming from however whether a church has it or not... I have never seen the rightious forsaken or his seek begging bread. I think the close we walk with God, he will continue to lead and guide us and when we need he will provide!! Bottom line whether the church has it or not. God will lead you on what to say, when to say it, etc. Just my two cents....

Then again, I guess I just don't get it...

I also can see where you are coming from...

but I think you do get it, because you stated it already, "that it goes both ways"...musicians should be dedicated to pleasing and honoring/glorifying God first and Excellence in all they do (ie., studying the word, on-time, faithful, etc.,).  The church should also be just as fair to those whom give freely of themselves to assist in the ministry.

Whether you have never seen the righteous forsaken or not is not even the issue...You made a statement that when we need, God will provide...if the church has the means to do so, why shouldn't they be the helping hand of God and provide when it is clearly fair that they do so.

...and Your right!...It's not so much of a question about the actual dollar amount...the question is...Is the church being fair?  and in this scenario, if this is truly the case, IMHO...the answer would be no, they are not acting fairly...BTJMO. 

[divinemusician]

ok, I see what you saying. The church doesn't be fair in some cases... y is that. A lack of respect for the music dept. I don't think that is it all the time (in some cases maybe), I think some churchs are not educated on the music dept. or feel if the musicians get paid whats next the choir members, lol. I don't think they full understand what the MM does or the musicians... If this is the case is it up to us musicians to educate the church. 

I just don't want musicians to be stuck on somebody else walk (what they get paid),

But I totally get what you are sayin and to answer the quesion, No church don't be fair all the time.

I got a question though, as a musician how do you know the church money issues unless they tell you. Does your church have business meetings and lets the members know about the funds. Or do you (not you but a general question, lol) just assume because you see the offering table every Sunday or base it on what everybody else gets paid?

Just a general question...

[KeyofB]

I thank yall for your comments I am not hurt or sad by the comments all I am saying is we do play for the glory and honor of god please don't get me wrong at all please....We love music to the fullest and if you got a organ player that plays thier and she get paid over 450.00 dollars if she's there or not and I just don't think that's fair for us we are there just like the she is and we are at every practice I mean everything

Now come on what is the justification for that. Know I could see if they weren't paying anyone but that's not kosher. I have been in situtations like that before but I found that I left not because of money but because of shear lack of disrespect to me as the musician that is always there. It was like they were saying she is better than you. I think I get it now it's not the fact that they want you to be there it's that their making a difference between you and the other musicians.

[bishop2]

I got a question though, as a musician how do you know the church money issues unless they tell you. Does your church have business meetings and lets the members know about the funds. Or do you (not you but a general question, lol) just assume because you see the offering table every Sunday or base it on what everybody else gets paid?

Just a general question...

If you know of other people on salary and you are not.
If you have a zillion offerings and no changes around the building or things like that
If you see more envelopes put in pockets than put in the plate...

Nah just joking, but for real tho you can tell.  In many of the cases that I've seen its not that the church cant afford the musician, it's priorities are not on the music dept... They will do a lot of things in the church and will pay people to do things, but ask to get the organ fixed or serviced and you get looked at like they been chewin on glass... Priorities mess up...

[divinemusician]

If you know of other people on salary and you are not.
If you have a zillion offerings and no changes around the building or things like that
If you see more envelopes put in pockets than put in the plate...

Nah just joking, but for real tho you can tell.  In many of the cases that I've seen its not that the church cant afford the musician, it's priorities are not on the music dept... They will do a lot of things in the church and will pay people to do things, but ask to get the organ fixed or serviced and you get looked at like they been chewin on glass... Priorities mess up...

I get what you are saying but as a person who works closely with our head deacon (my grandfather lol) I see a lot first hand where the money goes that the church gets. NOW I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MY CHURCH, AND MINE ONLY.... They have well I should say we have a lot of funds going to things that continue to make the church run. Now again we are not a church with the 1million dollar Sunday offering... haha But we do get a little something something... After taking care of church business to keep the church running, paying the pastor, fixin I should say upgrading thing in the church, making sure the out reach ministry, etc all the other ministries to help the people of God come to get to know God lol we don't have a lot of money.

and again I ask how do you know the church funds because (at my church) my father is the Assocaite Pastor and he owns his own business. now here is wehre I am getting at. Some things that the church have my father gets or does (and he is not on a church salary) I don't say this to brag about or make it seem like my father is all of that. But if i didn't knwo this I would think the church was banking. I say that to say this. you cant always look at the outside of a situation and think you got it figured out with out knowing facts...

Again... I totally agree with you guys at the same time like my friend Cas10a says its both sides... I see it from a musician side and I see it from my church side... lol AGAIN I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THOSE MEGA CHURCHS ALL I CAN DO IS TALK ABOUT MY CHRUCH AND WHY THINGS ARE THE WAY THEY ARE...

Another question again because I come from a small church that some of you guys probably would laugh at...(well we not that small)

what do you think should be the priorites of the church. Money wise... what od you think should be "in line" after all the "bills" are paid.

let me say this... I do believe a musician does a lot for the church and by no means am I saying we should all play for FREE and don't worry about it... I guess it depends on your situation... my comments are coming from a situation where you have been at your home church, this is your home church. now if you are a musician that is not playing for your home church and you and that church know what time it is... then thats whats up...

I guess I just want clarity and I am trying to open my mind out and learn more than what I know....lol

[kodacolor]

I get what you are saying but as a person who works closely with our head deacon (my grandfather lol) I see a lot first hand where the money goes that the church gets. NOW I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MY CHURCH, AND MINE ONLY.... They have well I should say we have a lot of funds going to things that continue to make the church run. Now again we are not a church with the 1million dollar Sunday offering... haha But we do get a little something something... After taking care of church business to keep the church running, paying the pastor, fixin I should say upgrading thing in the church, making sure the out reach ministry, etc all the other ministries to help the people of God come to get to know God lol we don't have a lot of money.

and again I ask how do you know the church funds because (at my church) my father is the Assocaite Pastor and he owns his own business. now here is wehre I am getting at. Some things that the church have my father gets or does (and he is not on a church salary) I don't say this to brag about or make it seem like my father is all of that. But if i didn't knwo this I would think the church was banking. I say that to say this. you cant always look at the outside of a situation and think you got it figured out with out knowing facts...

Again... I totally agree with you guys at the same time like my friend Cas10a says its both sides... I see it from a musician side and I see it from my church side... lol AGAIN I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THOSE MEGA CHURCHS ALL I CAN DO IS TALK ABOUT MY CHRUCH AND WHY THINGS ARE THE WAY THEY ARE...

Another question again because I come from a small church that some of you guys probably would laugh at...(well we not that small)

what do you think should be the priorites of the church. Money wise... what od you think should be "in line" after all the "bills" are paid.

let me say this... I do believe a musician does a lot for the church and by no means am I saying we should all play for FREE and don't worry about it... I guess it depends on your situation... my comments are coming from a situation where you have been at your home church, this is your home church. now if you are a musician that is not playing for your home church and you and that church know what time it is... then thats whats up...

I guess I just want clarity and I am trying to open my mind out and learn more than what I know....lol

Personally I believe it depends on the situtation and the person.  Let's say Person A has been going to their church for a while, is faithful to God, his/her church home, and the ministry, etc then he/she asks to be paid.  If we had the funds I doubt our pastor would have a problem paying this person.

Person B barely/never comes to practice and never calls to say they're not coming, we're constantly trying to find replacements for this dude/chick because he/she likes to skip out on the Sundays he/she has to play, etc.  Then this person wants to be paid?  I'm guessing my pastor would have a hard time saying yes to that because this person isn't even a good stewart over the little they had prior to asking for the money.

If you are sought out by a church and you want to be paid I don't see a problem with that as long as you put God first always.  However, I do see a problem with people coming in out of the clear blue sky instating new world orders in a ministry just because they don't like it.  If the ministry needs help they'll ask.

[musallio]

I get what you are saying but as a person who works closely with our head deacon (my grandfather lol) I see a lot first hand where the money goes that the church gets. NOW I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MY CHURCH, AND MINE ONLY.... They have well I should say we have a lot of funds going to things that continue to make the church run. Now again we are not a church with the 1million dollar Sunday offering... haha But we do get a little something something... After taking care of church business to keep the church running, paying the pastor, fixin I should say upgrading thing in the church, making sure the out reach ministry, etc all the other ministries to help the people of God come to get to know God lol we don't have a lot of money.

and again I ask how do you know the church funds because (at my church) my father is the Assocaite Pastor and he owns his own business. now here is wehre I am getting at. Some things that the church have my father gets or does (and he is not on a church salary) I don't say this to brag about or make it seem like my father is all of that. But if i didn't knwo this I would think the church was banking. I say that to say this. you cant always look at the outside of a situation and think you got it figured out with out knowing facts...

Again... I totally agree with you guys at the same time like my friend Cas10a says its both sides... I see it from a musician side and I see it from my church side... lol AGAIN I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THOSE MEGA CHURCHS ALL I CAN DO IS TALK ABOUT MY CHRUCH AND WHY THINGS ARE THE WAY THEY ARE...

Another question again because I come from a small church that some of you guys probably would laugh at...(well we not that small)

what do you think should be the priorites of the church. Money wise... what od you think should be "in line" after all the "bills" are paid.

let me say this... I do believe a musician does a lot for the church and by no means am I saying we should all play for FREE and don't worry about it... I guess it depends on your situation... my comments are coming from a situation where you have been at your home church, this is your home church. now if you are a musician that is not playing for your home church and you and that church know what time it is... then thats whats up...

I guess I just want clarity and I am trying to open my mind out and learn more than what I know....lol

Not to sound arrogant or anything, but I have a heart of a servant/ for God's work.
Whenever I see some1 working hard to get some ministry going, I always try to see if there's a way I can boost the effort.
That's to say that I always try to be close/ to study closely the lives of the leadership & get a clearer understanding of both the history & current affairs of a church.
In that way, I can tell which things are prioritized & which are not.

I can only speak about my church as well.
It seemed like wrong things were prioritized: ie, trying to hire a player instead of using those who were inside & could already play. Another problem was not servicing the system in time!
So time after time I had the musicians coming to me begging me to have the system serviced..(eventually the system was taken for servicing).

Playing for my home church, I will never look for compensation..I'd rather have that $ go to offerings. But for other events (funerals & weddings), I would state that I expect some compensation because I am giving my time & talent & should not allow it to be abused.

The best type of compensation I can get when playing for my church is to see that the ministry is not overlooked & not attended to when it needs to be attended to (eg, servicing instruments etc).

If playing for another church, it would depend on the arrangement really.. ministry comes 1st for me..But if I see potential signs of abuse (since people do generally abuse those who offer themselves), I would attach some monetary value to my services to avoid my ultimate purpose of serving faithfully being disturbed by other unforseen happenings.

1 can't really tell how a church is doing financially until you are involved...What I have learnt from the few churches I've come to study closely is that it's normally an ultra dedicated few who have given their all to the church & ppl from afar can get things wrong by trying to hypothetize how the $$ should be allocated.

My policy: Don't hypothetize until you have engaged in transparent dialogue with those charged with governing the finances & the leadership.

[divinemusician]

I can only speak about my church as well.
It seemed like wrong things were prioritized: ie, trying to hire a player instead of using those who were inside & could already play. Another problem was not servicing the system in time!
So time after time I had the musicians coming to me begging me to have the system serviced..(eventually the system was taken for servicing).

Playing for my home church, I will never look for compensation..I'd rather have that $ go to offerings. But for other events (funerals & weddings), I would state that I expect some compensation because I am giving my time & talent & should not allow it to be abused.

The best type of compensation I can get when playing for my church is to see that the ministry is not overlooked & not attended to when it needs to be attended to (eg, servicing instruments etc).

If playing for another church, it would depend on the arrangement really.. ministry comes 1st for me..But if I see potential signs of abuse (since people do generally abuse those who offer themselves), I would attach some monetary value to my services to avoid my ultimate purpose of serving faithfully being disturbed by other unforseen happenings.

1 can't really tell how a church is doing financially until you are involved...What I have learnt from the few churches I've come to study closely is that it's normally an ultra dedicated few who have given their all to the church & ppl from afar can get things wrong by trying to hypothetize how the $$ should be allocated.

My policy: Don't hypothetize until you have engaged in transparent dialogue with those charged with governing the finances & the leadership.

B.I.N.G.O!!! This is how I feel... Totally... I guess where I am from is different then you all... as Musallio said... this is my mental state of mind.

By no means am I saying you all are wrong but this is what I was trying to say, just what he said... lol.

Personally I believe it depends on the situtation and the person.  Let's say Person A has been going to their church for a while, is faithful to God, his/her church home, and the ministry, etc then he/she asks to be paid.  If we had the funds I doubt our pastor would have a problem paying this person.

Person B barely/never comes to practice and never calls to say they're not coming, we're constantly trying to find replacements for this dude/chick because he/she likes to skip out on the Sundays he/she has to play, etc.  Then this person wants to be paid?  I'm guessing my pastor would have a hard time saying yes to that because this person isn't even a good stewart over the little they had prior to asking for the money.

If you are sought out by a church and you want to be paid I don't see a problem with that as long as you put God first always.  However, I do see a problem with people coming in out of the clear blue sky instating new world orders in a ministry just because they don't like it.  If the ministry needs help they'll ask.

I can't totally agree. Unfortunately... there are a lot of Person B's (that don't sound good, lol) on the pay roll. I think that a lot of churches have gotten burned by Person B!! And some may feel well if we start paying Person A will they becoem like person B.. I have seen this happen first hand. So I guess its like you said... it depends on the person, the situation, the church, the pastors mind, how the funds are, etc etc bluh bluh bluh... lol...

this will forever be an on going thread... lol

[musallio]

B.I.N.G.O!!! This is how I feel... Totally... I guess where I am from is different then you all... as Musallio said... this is my mental state of mind.

Was just trying to back up a sis coz I see there are many parallels btwn us....of course I agree with +95% of what others are saying here as well...sound advice for both churches & players.

[cas10a]

By no means am I saying you all are wrong but this is what I was trying to say, just what he said... lol.

this will forever be an on going thread... lol

I think we understand where you are coming from and know that you were not saying we are all just wrong, well at least I did Sis...lol

Views differ based on experiences.  Being military, I'm not looking to become a member of a church, because I constantly move to different locations, but I do offer help where I can, usually smaller churches...because often times that's where help is needed.  I don't ask for payment, because I am not only doing it to glorify the God I serve, but to help in any way possible.  But on the flip side of this, I also understand the time, work, effort, and expenses on the musicians part that is involved when a church starts to grow; and it can become overwhelming for musicians that are doing/giving everything they can towards God and the vision/goals of the pastor/church, without any compensation.

We agree on most my friend...