The Tri-color Keyboard (My Latest Invention)

[outstretchedarm]

this is one of my "inventions"


 

can anyone see why having a keyboard in this color scheme would be very useful?

[sjonathan02]

this is one of my "inventions"


 

can anyone see why having a keyboard in this color scheme would be very useful?

I notice that your colors represent diminished chords.

[outstretchedarm]

that's a start.  keep thinking.  its almost like a puzzle...which is what music is in a way...

here's a hint, sj: think like a middle school teacher.  think pedagogically.

[sjonathan02]

here's a hint, sj: think like a middle school teacher.  think pedagogically.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.  I teach general music so unless my kids are really into music, I give the stuff they can handle....the basics. 

[outstretchedarm]

that's great.  could you use this to teach the basics more effectively?

starter hint #1
Q: How do you a form a major chord?

A: Hit a red key.  skip a green then hit two consequetive greens.  This works for C, Eb, Gb, and A major chords

or

Hit a green key, skip a yellow then hit two yellows.  works for Db, E, G, Bb

etc etc.  In other words, a major chord is always one key of one color and two of another

starter hint #2

Q: How can I find the I IV and V more easily?

A: the I IV V intervals will always be three different colors, in all 12 keys

can you see more uses, either to teach beginners, or to help beginner grasp more advanced concepts?

[sjonathan02]

that's great.  could you use this to teach the basics more effectively?

starter hint #1
Q: How do you a form a major chord?

A: Hit a red key.  skip a green then hit two consequetive greens.  This works for C, Eb, Gb, and A major chords

or

Hit a green key, skip a yellow then hit two yellows.  works for Db, E, G, Bb

etc etc.  In other words, a major chord is always one key of one color and two of another

starter hint #2

Q: How can I find the I IV and V more easily?

A: the I IV V intervals will always be three different colors, in all 12 keys

can you see more uses, either to teach beginners, or to help beginner grasp more advanced concepts?

How would you teach chord inversions?

How would this help the student to know the exact name of the chord he/she is playing? For example, with your system, you're saying that if I simply hit a green key, skip a yellow then hit two yellows, I'll be playing a major chord that works for either Db or E or G or Bb. How does a student know which major chord he/she is playing?

How are working minor chords? From what you're describing, you'd tell a student to hit a green; then the next available green key; then skip a yellow key, then play the next available yellow key for a Db minor chord (as an example) ?

How would describe extensions? Trying to differentiate between the Major and minor 7ths seemed challenging, for me.

Now, it could be just me but, because I have rudimentary understanding of the piano and building chords, it seems like a lot of work.

I'm interested to know how you came up with this.

[outstretchedarm]

hmmm....maybe its a lot of work because we're forcing our old understanding of music onto a completely different system.

try to pretend, for a second, that you had never heard of calling notes "C" "D" "Eb" etc (you know in france they call them do re mi, etc)

try to pretend that, in your mind, you hadn't learned to divide the keyboard, mentally, into white keys and black keys.

Regarding how I came up with this:

a couple of months ago, I was studying dim7 chords in depth (BTW, in this scheme, just hit all the keys of the same color and -- viola -- instant dim7) and I was fascinated on how they are, for practical reasons, only three dim7's.

I then drew three keyboards...one with the red dim7s (C-Eb-Gb-A), one with yellow dim7s (F-Ab-B-D), and one with the green dim7s (G-Bb-Db-E).  Then I put it away for a few months.

Lately I've been thinking..you know, probably the most logically way to divide a piano keyboard is into "groupings" of dim7 chords.  Much more logical then mentally grouping them into "white" keys and "black" keys, that is, naturals and accidentals, as our current B&W coloring system suggests.  The black and white thing is misleading because it is only accurate for the key of C; in every other key, naturals and accidentals have little to do with black and white.  why not develop a better system?

look at the math - dividing into B&W means getting  7 vs 5 keys.  How assymetrical!

but in this system, you neatly "slice" up the octave into 3 groups of 4.  3 x 4 = 12....how logical!

especially for gospel music, which relies so heavily on the tri-tone.  want to show a student a tritone?  just tell'em to hit two alternating keys of the same color.  viola!   want to demonstrate which tri-tone will go well between C and G.  well just form a tri-tone of the chord you are going to...in this case green, which will give you either G - Db or  Db - G.  Viola, you've just taught a student a gospel movement.

Its time for bed, but my instincts tell me that there at least 30 pedagogical applications for this scheme (not to mention how much easier it would make learning new keys), ranging from beginner to advanced.

maybe you can help me discover some.

[sjonathan02]

First, in order for this to even work, then you'd have to be the guy to teach it to a student who truly had NO idea about the keyboard whatsoever.


Second, you'd would now change the physical face of the traditional keyboard from B&W to a Red, Green & Yellow? Hmmmmm.........


Third, you never fully addressed my other specific questions. And, I have more. Are you doing away with the letter system altogether? How would you notate a song using your method. While you're trying to change the face of the piano, music books will still be using EGBDF & FACE etc, so what then?


Without explaining dim7's, how would you explain the color system?

want to show a student a tritone?  just tell'em to hit two alternating keys of the same color.  viola!   want to demonstrate which tri-tone will go well between C and G.  well just form a tri-tone of the chord you are going to...in this case green, which will give you either G - Db or  Db - G.  Viola, you've just taught a student a gospel movement.

Before I address the stuff in bold, let me address the fact that in your explanation, you're using the terms 'C' & 'G', so you won't be able to eliminate their use.

Now to the parts in bold. If you tell a student to hit two alternating keys of the same color between C & G, why wouldn't they hit Db and E; or D & F (they both fall into your explanation) ?


Again, I'm thinking just like a typical middle school student with NO musical training whatsoever (because that's who I teach). Now, your system might work for kids who have been exposed to the keyboard at a young age and have a desire to acquire the knowledge necessary to become a proficient keyboardist.

Anyway, sleep well.

[outstretchedarm]

Hmmm...let me try this again...we're not on the same wavelength yet,,,

a) I don't want to do away with the tradition lettering system.  Just imagine, for a second, there is another way of viewing the same "terrain."

Like you know those pull-down maps they have in classooms of the USA?  There is usually a big map showing the US split up by states. 



But down below, there are often other smaller maps, of the same usa, but viewed in terms of elevation, perhaps like this



or even population of a certain ethnicity



what is my point?   same terrain...three different ways of looking at it.  For certain things, the other two maps might provide a more useful "framework" for looking at the same country.

This is what I am trying to do with the keyboard, simply provide am alternate "lens" through which to view it.  Sometimes looking at something through a new lens can open your eyes to see things you otherwise wouldn't have.

Second, you'd would now change the physical face of the traditional keyboard from B&W to a Red, Green & Yellow? Hmmmmm.........

No, not change, just provide an alternative.  Imagine, in a music lab full of keyboards, having one keyboard around that has keys this color to use as a reference.  Or imagine a serios music theorist having an 61 key keyboard with one or two octaves in the color scheme, when viewing the keys via this framework might give insight.

Without explaining dim7's, how would you explain the color system?

You may not have to at first.  Just take it for granted, until a student learns more theory.  After all, how many people, on this forum lets say, can explain exactly why there are 7 white keys and 5 black keys?  The answer is pretty complicated.

Now to the parts in bold. If you tell a student to hit two alternating keys of the same color between C & G, why wouldn't they hit Db and E; or D & F (they both fall into your explanation) ?

No, Db and E would be two keys of the same color sequentially (sorry if I'm not making it more clear using "adult talk").  In simplest terms, like if I were explaiing it to a child, I'd say "hit a red, skip a red, hit a red.  There."

Now, your system might work for kids who have been exposed to the keyboard at a young age and have a desire to acquire the knowledge necessary to become a proficient keyboardist.

Maybe this tool might be best suited for begnners trying to become more advanced.  But suspect it might have beginner uses.

[sjonathan02]

Ok, I feel like there's a trend forming. You aren't answering ALL of my questions and queries. For example:


Are you doing away with the letter system altogether?

How would you notate a song using your method; while you're trying to change the face of the piano, music books will still be using EGBDF & FACE etc, so what then?


Again, because of the students that I teach, this system wouldn't work for them. For a more serious beginner, as I stated earler, it may; but there are still many adjustments that you'd need to make.


Answer ALL of my questions (questions that those better equipped in this field, I believe would ask you).


BTW, why would one need to know why there are 7 white and 5 black keys (and no, I don't the complicated answer to this question and I bet most don't) 

[outstretchedarm]

yeah I don't also all the questions because I think some of my answers answer more than one question.  But here goes:

Are you doing away with the letter system altogether?

No, just provide an alternative.  See my "maps" analogy.

How would you notate a song using your method; while you're trying to change the face of the piano, music books will still be using EGBDF & FACE etc, so what then?

The same way we always have.  Keep the old system.  use the new colors to "see" certain things more clearly, such as the fact that c7 chord contains a red, skip a green, then 3 greens in a row. (this makes it very easy to see that a C7 chord has a diminished chord in it, the E dim).  Its just a tool, bro.

why would one need to know why there are 7 white and 5 black keys (and no, I don't the complicated answer to this question and I bet most don't) 

That was my way of countering your question: "how would you explain the color system/whats the logic of it?"  my retort is "do we really ever explain the old cloring system, B&W, to young students?   Or do we just say 'hey, there's seven whites and five blacks -- deal with it."

[sjonathan02]

Or do we just say 'hey, there's seven whites and five blacks -- deal with it."

Oft time, we don't even tell them about the number of white keys.  We just show them the five Black keys and their group of 2s and 3s pattern. That's all a beginner needs to know. 


Now, here's something else I thought about. The use of your color scheme may assist those who are trying to play by ear, in that, they wouldn't necessarily need to know what Key  the song is in, they could use hear the major, minor and diminished chords in it. And, it could possibly help with modulation.

But, again I say, it's more for advanced beginners or higher.

[musiqisme26]

Im not sure if this was covered in dialogue with you and sjon but i do see with the 3 diminish chords that they are all made up of the each notes relative minor/major if im explaining that correctly. i know no theory but i do see the pattern

[outstretchedarm]

Okay let me blow this thread up a little bit

10 Ways to Use the Tri-Color Keyboard

Part 1 : Teaching Chords:

#1 Q: How do I form a major chord?

A: Hit a Red, then ignore the first green, then two greens in a row.

#2 Q: How do I form a 7th chord?

A: just add the next green

#3 Q: How do I form a diminished chord?

A: Just hit any three keys of the same color, like, red-red-red or green-green-green, etc

#4 Q: How do I form a dim7 chord?

A: Just add on the next key of the same color, as in red-red-red-red

#5 Q: How do I form a tri-tone?

A: Hit a key of a certain color, skip the next one of the color, hit the next one of the same color.  as in:

Red, skip a red, hit a red

Green, skip a green, hit a green

#6: Q: How do I form a minor chord

Just hit two keys of the same color, as in red, red...then hit the a key that is just to the right of your first color (ex..green) but skip a green first

as in red, red, skip a green, green

#7 Q: What about sus chords?

A: sus chords will always be composed of three notes of three different colors

Part II: Teaching Gospel Stylings

#8 Q: How do I know what tri-tone to hit when going from I to V?

Look at the color of the chord you are going to. (If you are going from C - G, then G is green).  Make a green tri-tone, and play it in between C and G, which gives you:

C-E-G
Db - G  (a green tri-tone)
G-B-D

#9 Q: How do I know tri-tone to to hit when going from I to IV?

Look at the color of the second note of the I if you are going from C - G, it will be E: which is green).  Make a different green tri-tone from the last example, and put in your progression

C-E-G
E-Bb (a green tri-tone)
F-A-C

#10 Q: So you're saying whether I want to go from I to IV, or from I to V, and I start with a red note, I use a green tri-tone to "get out?"

A: Exactly

#11 Q: Where are my "blue notes" (b3, b5, b7)

A: The first two blues notes, in any key will always be the same color as your tonic.  he last will be the "before color"

#12 Q: What do you mean by "next color"?

A: Think of the colors going in this order: Red-Yellow-Green, like a traffic light (a little bit in rick-paper-scissors).  If you

- start in a red note, the yellow will always be your fourth, and the green will always be your fifth
- start in a yellow note, the green will always be your fourth, and the redwill always be your fifth
- start in a green note, the red will always be your fourth, and the yellow will always be your fifth

Part III: Learning Scales and New Keys

#13 Q: wait, so your saying the I, IV, and V of the major scale, will always be a different color, no matter what key you are in?

A: Exactly!

#14 Q: how does this help me learn new keys?

A: Suppose you only knew how to play in the key of C.  This would make it easy to learn the Key of Eb a popular gospel key), because Eb uses the same exact color scheme as C.  In C, the I chord is formed red, green green.  It is formed the same way in Eb.  Green tri-tones get you from I to IV or I to V in the key of C.  So it is in Eb.  In other words, you can take alot of the "tricks" you know in C and apply them to Eb, because the colors are all the same.

#15 Q: Where do I get me one of these Tri-color keyboards?!?

A: They're not manufactured yet.  But you can make one by painting a keyboard you are not in love with with cryllic paint from the hobby store.  And remember to sent outstretchedarm a love offering.

[sjonathan02]

#7 Q: What about sus chords?

A: sus chords will always be composed of three notes of three different colors


I think this is an incomplete answer.


Part II: Teaching Gospel Stylings

#8 Q: How do I know what tri-tone to hit when going from I to V?

Look at the color of the chord you are going to. (If you are going from C - G, then G is green).  Make a green tri-tone, and play it in between C and G, which gives you:

C-E-G
Db - G  (a green tri-tone)
G-B-D


Why is this THE ONLY type of tri-tone I can make going from the I to the V ?

#9 Q: How do I know tri-tone to to hit when going from I to IV?

Look at the color of the second note of the I if you are going from C - G, it will be E: which is green).  Make a different green tri-tone from the last example, and put in your progression

C-E-G
E-Bb (a green tri-tone)
F-A-C

#10 Q: So you're saying whether I want to go from I to IV, or from I to V, and I start with a red note, I use a green tri-tone to "get out?"

A: Exactly


Same response as up top.


What if I start with another note color?

#11 Q: Where are my "blue notes" (b3, b5, b7)

A: The first two blues notes, in any key will always be the same color as your tonic.  he last will be the "before color"

#12 Q: What do you mean by "next color"?

A: Think of the colors going in this order: Red-Yellow-Green, like a traffic light (a little bit in rick-paper-scissors).  If you

- start in a red note, the yellow will always be your fourth, and the green will always be your fifth
- start in a yellow note, the green will always be your fourth, and the redwill always be your fifth
- start in a green note, the red will always be your fourth, and the yellow will always be your fifth

This is quite confusing, I think.

#14 Q: how does this help me learn new keys?

A: Suppose you only knew how to play in the key of C.  This would make it easy to learn the Key of Eb a popular gospel key), because Eb uses the same exact color scheme as C.  In C, the I chord is formed red, green green.  It is formed the same way in Eb.  Green tri-tones get you from I to IV or I to V in the key of C.  So it is in Eb.  In other words, you can take alot of the "tricks" you know in C and apply them to Eb, because the colors are all the same.

This is what I was eluding to in my last post. 

#15 Q: Where do I get me one of these Tri-color keyboards?!?

A: They're not manufactured yet.  But you can make one by painting a keyboard you are not in love with with cryllic paint from the hobby store.  And remember to sent outstretchedarm a love offering.


To quote David Alan Grier from the movie "Boomerang":  "When you make The Oprah Winfrey Show, I'm gonna be front row!! 

[T-Block]

Well, I'll be honest with ya outstretchedarm.  This sytem that u came up with is a very, very, very creative sytem.  I know it took u a lot of work to come up with this.  So, on the basis of pure mechanics of this keyboard, i give u props man.  I got one question though, will u still keep the same names for the keys?

The good thing is if you keep the same name for the keys, then it would be an alternative way to learn using more colors than the normal black & white keys.  So, esentially they'll be playing by colors.

The bad thing is people who learned using all these colors may get confused when they see a real keyboard cuz they will be used to all them colors.  Not too mention that when u start adding in progressions, u now have 3 different techniques to combine togerther when learning the keyboard:  letters, numbers, colors

All in all, this isn't a completely bad system, it just looks like it takes more work to learn than a normal keyboard.

[outstretchedarm]

#7 Q: What about sus chords?

A: sus chords will always be composed of three notes of three different colors


I think this is an incomplete answer.

Yes, it is by design.  There is more to forming a sus chord. But it is a mneumonic device for making sure that yu got it right is that the three notes will be different colors (be it sus2 or sus4)

#8 Q: How do I know what tri-tone to hit when going from I to V?

Look at the color of the chord you are going to. (If you are going from C - G, then G is green).  Make a green tri-tone, and play it in between C and G, which gives you:

C-E-G
Db - G  (a green tri-tone)
G-B-D


Why is this THE ONLY type of tri-tone I can make going from the I to the V ?

it is by no means the only.  But is is a foot in the door for a student.  But lets say the student is alert and asks, "what other tri-tone could I use to go from I to V"?  We could simply reply "well, you could use the other tri-tone that is the SAME color"  In going from C-G, you could use (G -Cb "green tri-tone") which is our first answer, or we could ook for another green tri-tone, which would be E-Bb.  (The theoretic reason why this works is that Db-G + E-Bb = G-Bb-Db-E = Gdim7, which is the classic chord in between C and G). 

see how this makes teaching tri-tone usage very easy?

#10 Q: So you're saying whether I want to go from I to IV, or from I to V, and I start with a red note, I use a green tri-tone to "get out?"

A: Exactly


Same response as up top.

Same answer   

A: Think of the colors going in this order: Red-Yellow-Green, like a traffic light (a little bit in rick-paper-scissors).  If you

- start in a red note, the yellow will always be your fourth, and the green will always be your fifth
- start in a yellow note, the green will always be your fourth, and the redwill always be your fifth
- start in a green note, the red will always be your fourth, and the yellow will always be your fifth

This is quite confusing, I think.

 

Now, here's something else I thought about. The use of your color scheme may assist those who are trying to play by ear, in that, they wouldn't necessarily need to know what Key  the song is in, they could use hear the major, minor and diminished chords in it. And, it could possibly help with modulation.
 

good idea

But, again I say, it's more for advanced beginners or higher.

fair enough

[Cherri]

Interesting...

[flojo4jc]

The bad thing is people who learned using all these colors may get confused when they see a real keyboard cuz they will be used to all them colors.  Not too mention that when u start adding in progressions, u now have 3 different techniques to combine togerther when learning the keyboard:  letters, numbers, colors

Ok, so I've been looking at this keyboard for a while.  And I think its really good for making connections that we wouldn't normally make with the conventional keyboard.  However, I think this system would be a lot harder to integrate into our traditional way of teaching piano because it changes our whole perception of the keyboard. 

Playing the keyboard requires three of our senses.  For those of us who arent' Stevie and Ray, we really depend on our sight to play.  I never really thought about it until you posted this (and I just may be processing what T-block and Sjon said in a different way) but just like the maps, your system changes our perception of the topography of the surface.  In other words, our brains will trick us into thinking that our fingers will place on the keyboard differently (which isn't the case).  So, switching from the color keyboard to the conventional keyboard would take a lot of processing and would eventually be counterproductive...

Like I said earlier, I do think that the system is good for learning about certain chord connections, intervals, etc.  But it would probably only work two-dimensionally in a theoretical setting.  On a side note, the colors you chose are very bold and may be part of the reason why it would be so hard to attempt to play.  It would be interesting to see how pastels, or duller colors would affect someone's approach to playing.

[KurzLand]

Vewy Vewy smart.