Who leads?

[dakaptain]

Praise the LORD my fellow bassists.  In a band setting, who leads?  The bass guitar or the drums?  I have been playing about two years and recently during a church service I was told to follow the drummer and I did so in the spirit of cooperation.  I have always understood the piano to be the lead and everything else falls inline.  I also understand that a bass player and drummer must lock.  My problem is that to follow the drummer I end up having to change the way the song goes.  The drummer isn't a busy cat, but the songs that we do, I don't need to take away from the song structure unless it is rehearsed and the piano, organ, or keyboard pick up the missing gap.

Anyone have words of wisdom?

[jeremyr]

welcome to lGM!!!

My words of advice....no one leads.  You guys work together as 1.  You're part harmony and part rhtym so you need to be just as aware of waht the drummer is doing as he is aware of what you're doing.

[Torch7]

Welcome to LGM...

Like Jeremyr said....
 
You should get with the Drummer and perhaps, setup a special time for working with one another (use a metronome, to keep both players tight).

The Drummer should keep the time of the song, while the Bass player moves the song along.  Getting on one accord, will take both
of yalls, playing to another level.  I sit with our drummer sometimes, and have him show me how to do certain things on the set.  It
gives me a new respect for what he does.  We try to watch one another as much as possible, its kind of difficult, because we are situated
away from one another.  And I also watch, the keyboard player. (I'm developing peripheral, like "Magic Johnson"  ) 
 

[jeremyr]

Welcome to LGM...

Like Jeremyr said....
 
You should get with the Drummer and perhaps, setup a special time for working with one another (use a metronome, to keep both players tight).

The Drummer should keep the time of the song, while the Bass player moves the song along.  Getting on one accord, will take both
of yalls, playing to another level.  I sit with our drummer sometimes, and have him show me how to do certain things on the set.  It
gives me a new respect for what he does.  We try to watch one another as much as possible, its kind of difficult, because we are situated
away from one another.  And I also watch, the keyboard player. (I'm developing peripheral, like "Magic Johnson"  ) 
 

Sitting down with the drummer is a GREAT idea....especailly if you have the keyboard part recorded!!!!! 

[gambit23435]

welcome to lGM!!!

My words of advice....no one leads.  You guys work together as 1.  You're part harmony and part rhtym so you need to be just as aware of waht the drummer is doing as he is aware of what you're doing.

Welcome to LGM...

I agree with jeremyr. One of the first thing I learned was to lock with the drummer. You both need to be on the same page. IMHO Some one on one practice time should resolve this problem. 

[Cherri]

Greetings! 1 BAND... 1 SOUND...

[ddwilkins]

+1 on what everyone else has said.  You and the drummer are the rhythm section.  You and him should lock with each other and privide the heartbeat or pulse. 

[B3Wannabe]

Yea. If the drummer and bassist are doing two different things, it'll sound off.

Usually, at least in a lot of the music I listen to, if the bassist do a run, the drummer does a fill and vice versa. If the bassist is in a groove, the drummer is in his pocket.

Also, in a fast song, if there are voices, the vocals move the song along and the music is usually pretty simple. In a slow song, it's the opposite.

[Andrzej]

Doesn't matter if your drummer is busy or not you still have to keep in check with him/her at all times.  Keep yourself tight with the kick drum to maintain a good punchy groove and you are instantaniously a tight rhythm section...it's not rocket science, but it does take discipline from both parties.  I have played with drummers that constantly changed their beat patterns and that can get very frustrating itself.  Most of the time I follow the drummer to construct the groove and create spaces for myself, so if the plan changes without me knowing about it throws me off by a bar or two.

Don't think that a pocket drummer will play you down either.  In a lot of case it can open up your playing a lot more.  Sometimes, the drummer will follow you and react to what you are doing, which means you have to be sensible and mature enough to ride the groove.

At the end of the day you both have a responsibility for each other when you play and keep your ears open.  Striking a balance is probably the most important thing you will have to adjust to and build upon when playing in a full live band in any circumstance.

[browntree]

You know the funny thing... this exact issue is destroying our music deparment.  Many people think the piano is the lead or primary instrument.  That of course makes every other instrument secondary.  If you haven't figured it out, I'm taking your post one step further.  So folk are like... 'the piano is the lead...everyone should follow the piano'.  This spirit of domination and control (which isn't needed... because it really depends on the song which instrument takes a lead if that's what you want to call it)  spreads like a plague.  Who's in the lead?? Who's in control??  As the bassist at my church, nobody listens to my opinion on music or even how the base should sound (imagine that...) How do I think it all started?  I think it started with this very traditional idea that the piano is also the lead instrument --->so the pianist should be in the lead --->so everyone else is secondary (including their needs and opinions).  All this serves to do is create dissention.    Jeremyr is so right... no one leads.  It's not even a matter of leading.  We are a complicated machine... working in syncronization...some of the parts are larger, some smaller.  But...neither part greater than the other on any level.  I know some may think I took  this post to a HNL, but Satan starts small and simple...which is very, very  deceptive. 

[Mysteryman]

Who leads usually depend on the song where Im at but it is more fun when everybody is doing there part and playing off of each other. Im learning more and more that its easier to play when the drummer stays in the pocket what ever groove they play. When you get out a little and play with pocket drummers it does get frustrating when you play with drummers all over the place.

[fatbaby78]

Everyone has there on individual part that becomes one, but the drums usually makes the distinction of where the song is heading(intro,vamp,bridge etc) Someone must give format so depending who that is thats where leadership come from.It could be anyone in the band/ praise and worship leaders

[jeremyr]

Everyone has there on individual part that becomes one, but the drums usually makes the distinction of where the song is heading(intro,vamp,bridge etc) Someone must give format so depending who that is thats where leadership come from.It could be anyone in the band/ praise and worship leaders

i'm going to disagree about the drums saying where the song is going for one main reason.  in western music we follow progressions, and progressions and the bass note.  Now if you want to look at who says where the song is going next or dictates the chords that are going to be played its the bass, but just because they say where the song is going next doesn't mean that they lead.

It's a hard concept to get over, but all of this "xxx leads" is a bunch of rubbish.  Just like browntree said it can be like a disease that will eat away at your music department.

[Torch7]

I believe that there should be a leader/director, or whatever you want to call them; for the musicians.  This is not to say, that the leader/director dictates.  But
there needs to be a certain accountability amongst the musicians, this person can be a drummer, keyboardist, bassist, guitarist, or play any other instrumentalist.

When there is a person in a position of authority, and all others involved have a heart to serve in the body, it can cut down on issues being addressed here.  I'm sorry for
what's happening browntree, perhaps you can go to the leader and speak about your concerns, perhaps they will hear, and even if they don't you can get the weight off.

[jeremyr]

I believe that there should be a leader/director, or whatever you want to call them; for the musicians.  This is not to say, that the leader/director dictates.  But
there needs to be a certain accountability amongst the musicians, this person can be a drummer, keyboardist, bassist, guitarist, or play any other instrumentalist.

When there is a person in a position of authority, and all others involved have a heart to serve in the body, it can cut down on issues being addressed here.  I'm sorry for
what's happening browntree, perhaps you can go to the leader and speak about your concerns, perhaps they will hear, and even if they don't you can get the weight off.

i think he's asking about an instrument opposed to a "band leader".  If you are speaking of a leader as in a person that's the head then it depends.  Sometimes people can check each other and get along just fine, you also have those that are just leader material and rise to the job.

However speaking of a leader "instrument" now you're getting into trouble.

[B3Wannabe]

In music, the bare minimum is usually piano and drums, but if you're doing something "a cappella", you can have just drums or nothing. Everything else is flavor. Bass, horns, strings, guitar...they're extra. If the bass is playing with piano, usually they work together, but if you're in a band that's formed around the pianist then, depending on how they play, you might just hold the root and never get to "shine", which is what I think this whole discussion is about. We all like to have room to be free, and if everyone is being "free" then it'll sound messy (at least to some people, "Free Jazz" comes to mind). In Jazz and Classical music, usually they play around with the instruments. Gospel isn't that complex, at least not yet. Gospel is "mainly" about the words.

[Torch7]

i think he's asking about an instrument opposed to a "band leader".  If you are speaking of a leader as in a person that's the head then it depends.  Sometimes people can check each other and get along just fine, you also have those that are just leader material and rise to the job.

However speaking of a leader "instrument" now you're getting into trouble.

I agree, that the original post was in that vein, however I thought the post morphed when the discussion switched with the phrase "no-one listens to my opinions".  That is why my response about a director/leader.  Someone who has the final say about opinions.

[jeremyr]

I agree, that the original post was in that vein, however I thought the post morphed when the discussion switched with the phrase "no-one listens to my opinions".  That is why my response about a director/leader.  Someone who has the final say about opinions.

ok i gotcha.

[fatbaby78]

I feel what you are saying also Jeremy. What I was saying about the drummer is usually theres something that he does that lets the other bad members know somethings bout to happen(thats if he's a good drummer). I guess the words would be the drummer sets up the turn a rounds, licks or whateva. But still not saying they are the only ones that can do it. This subject can have endless opinions. Dont think theres a right or wrong answer. WHOEVER QUALIFIES