Should a divorced or single man be the head pastor of a church?

[TheVeteran]

I find this to be very true, especially if the church they were coming from was practicing shepherding or other forms of control.

[T-Block]

I find this to be very true, especially if the church they were coming from was practicing shepherding or other forms of control.

HUH?????

[HammerRock]

HUH?????

Well it sure ain't Jesus hurting people in churches. A lot of hurts I see come from those people who were going to churches, where, in the name of God, it was about having power over people (controlling them). Shepherding is a false doctrine. It's about the control and manipulation of people. A lot of churches are still based on it. They're really Christian cults.

http://www.eskimo.com/~scoleman/index.html I found this link useful in describing Shepherding....

I've spoken with quite a few people on this subject. Shepherding is more demonic than Christian in many ways. Sometimes it takes years for people to get healed from this garbage.

I'm not saying that these people are not Christians, I'm saying they're deceived and are living in a religeous lie that prevents and inhibits real spiritual growth.

[Furious Styles]

This is very true hammer. People fail to realize that after we preach to people all of this motivational gospel they still have to seek God for themselves. Corporate worship has it's pro's but I'm afraid the con's have began to outweight the pros. People aren't being challenged spiritually. It's one thing to appeal to the norm of what people want to hear. It's totally different thing when we try and equip people with the weaponry they really need.

Can you imagine a Staff sargeant training his troops six weeks? He/She goes through all of the fine points of the rifle and how to be a good solider. When its time for battle imagine the soilders coming back to the staff sargeant requesting to be taken out of the battle. Imagine some of them not being confident enough in their training to fight in the battle. Now imagine that this Staff Sargeant didn't do all that he should to prepare his troops. My point is that is most fellowships people aren't being taught anything past the basic training stage. Matter of fact many of them aren't even given the basics.

I know there are some dynamic leades out there however the mass majority of them are plugged into a matrix of error, control, and deception themselves. This is a dangerous time in the BOC. Jesus said that the very elect would be close to being decieved. These words aren't strange. It's in our bibles we read. WE must let the spirit give us revelation in these areas..

[sjonathan02]

This is very true hammer. People fail to realize that after we preach to people all of this motivational gospel they still have to seek God for themselves. Corporate worship has it's pro's but I'm afraid the con's have began to outweight the pros. People aren't being challenged spiritually. It's one thing to appeal to the norm of what people want to hear. It's totally different thing when we try and equip people with the weaponry they really need.

Can you imagine a Staff sargeant training his troops six weeks? He/She goes through all of the fine points of the rifle and how to be a good solider. When its time for battle imagine the soilders coming back to the staff sargeant requesting to be taken out of the battle. Imagine some of them not being confident enough in their training to fight in the battle. Now imagine that this Staff Sargeant didn't do all that he should to prepare his troops. My point is that is most fellowships people aren't being taught anything past the basic training stage. Matter of fact many of them aren't even given the basics.

I know there are some dynamic leades out there however the mass majority of them are plugged into a matrix of error, control, and deception themselves. This is a dangerous time in the BOC. Jesus said that the very elect would be close to being decieved. These words aren't strange. It's in our bibles we read. WE must let the spirit give us revelation in these areas..

Just when I thought we were making progress.  Uh boy, man!!

Hey FS, I don't remember seeing you in my worship encounter this past Sunday. Or, the Sunday before that, or the Sunday before that, etc


You just can't make that kind of generalization, because YOU haven't been to every church. You can only speak to the churches you have been too, and, as you openly admitted earlier, YOU'VE been burned, bruh! And, for that, I'm sorry. 

[Wayne Webb]

Well it sure ain't Jesus hurting people in churches. A lot of hurts I see come from those people who were going to churches, where, in the name of God, it was about having power over people (controlling them). Shepherding is a false doctrine. It's about the control and manipulation of people. A lot of churches are still based on it. They're really Christian cults.

http://www.eskimo.com/~scoleman/index.html I found this link useful in describing Shepherding....

I've spoken with quite a few people on this subject. Shepherding is more demonic than Christian in many ways. Sometimes it takes years for people to get healed from this garbage.

I'm not saying that these people are not Christians, I'm saying they're deceived and are living in a religeous lie that prevents and inhibits real spiritual growth.

HammerRock,
How do you know their doctrine is false?

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/doctrine

[TheVeteran]

No longer am I dealing with the surface issues......

I do not believe MOST Pastors are Money-Grabbing, manipulative, controlling individuals who are only out for themselves.  I believe those individuals are in the MINORITY, NOT the majority.

Reading the Posts of HammerRock and Furious Styles you would not be inclined to think so.  Reading their posts one would be inclined to think that Pastors are wolves in sheeps clothing. 

DON'T LET THEM CONTROL YOU!  THEY HAVE CELEBRITY SPIRITS!  THEY WANT TO SHEPHERD YOU!  THEY WANT YOUR MONEY!

Nonsense. 

They are quick to list scriptures that speak of the BAD Pastors in the book of Jeremiah....

Jeremiah 23:1
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Yet dismiss any mention of being under a Pastor in the New Testament.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

I have yet to hear from them WHY you should IGNORE this scripture...Except for the fact that they have a tendency to say "Oh, those are the words of PAUL, not GOD!!!"

Well, NONE of the Bible was written by God.  Shall we throw it ALL away?  That's another thread...

Again: You cannot accept what you want to accept and reject the rest.   If you are a new Christian, please don't believe that Pastors are all terrible people.  In other words, please disregard what.......

Um, just don't believe that Pastors are terrible people

[sjonathan02]

No longer am I dealing with the surface issues......

I do not believe MOST Pastors are Money-Grabbing, manipulative, controlling individuals who are only out for themselves.  I believe those individuals are in the MINORITY, NOT the majority.

Reading the Posts of HammerRock and Furious Styles you would not be inclined to think so.  Reading their posts one would be inclined to think that Pastors are wolves in sheeps clothing. 

DON'T LET THEM CONTROL YOU!  THEY HAVE CELEBRITY SPIRITS!  THEY WANT TO SHEPHERD YOU!  THEY WANT YOUR MONEY!

Nonsense. 

They are quick to list scriptures that speak of the BAD Pastors in the book of Jeremiah....

Jeremiah 23:1
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Yet dismiss any mention of being under a Pastor in the New Testament.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

I have yet to hear from them WHY you should IGNORE this scripture...Except for the fact that they have a tendency to say "Oh, those are the words of PAUL, not GOD!!!"

Well, NONE of the Bible was written by God.  Shall we throw it ALL away?  That's another thread...

Again: You cannot accept what you want to accept and reject the rest.   If you are a new Christian, please don't believe that Pastors are all terrible people.  In other words, please disregard what.......

Um, just don't believe that Pastors are terrible people

Again, I read the whole thing. 


PWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! 

[TheVeteran]

Again, I read the whole thing. 


PWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! 

 

[sjonathan02]

HammerRock,
How do you know their doctrine is false?

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/doctrine

Didn't you know that HammerRock's a prophet? 

[nessalynn77]

Didn't you know that HammerRock's a prophet? 

Yeah, it says so in his epistle to the Elgiems.

[TheVeteran]

Yeah, it says so in his epistle to the Elgiems.

Oh Lawd.  Now we're QUOTING HammerRock's Epistle?  Isn't that the 7th sign?

[HammerRock]

HammerRock,
How do you know their doctrine is false?

Wayne, have you read the information provided by that link I included? The main point is that when people are deceived they don't know it. I didn't know it at the time. Over a 10 year healing process the Lord revealed these a lot of these truths to me... and then I came across this website and Bamn... all of the sudden, there it was, a summary of what I beleive the Lord had already been showing me concerning this topic.... It was a confirmation to me.

... and then other brothers and sisters who I had been in that situation with, who are not in church right now (some for years), I shared this information with. It also rang true with them. Yes, they're not as healed as I am right now, but they were still in it for quite a while after I left. They will get healed in time and maybe the info I shared will help them.

Why did I leave? I left because I couldn't choke down what they were feeding me anymore. I was walking around confused a lot of the times. I couldn't make decisions in my life anymore without consulting "leadership". I couldn't even sit in service anymore, and I thought it was because something was wrong with me... I came to realize that the still small voice that I allowed to be silenced in me wouldn't stay silent anymore (the Holy Spirit). God pushed me out of there and then the healing started.

My daughter was about two when I left those churches. She's 15 now and knows the Lord. Most importantly she can now hear His voice, not just mine or my pastor's.

[Wayne Webb]

Wayne, have you read the information provided by that link I included? The main point is that when people are deceived they don't know it. I didn't know it at the time. Over a 10 year healing process the Lord revealed these a lot of these truths to me... and then I came across this website and Bamn... all of the sudden, there it was, a summary of what I beleive the Lord had already been showing me concerning this topic.... It was a confirmation to me.

... and then other brothers and sisters who I had been in that situation with, who are not in church right now (some for years), I shared this information with. It also rang true with them. Yes, they're not as healed as I am right now, but they were still in it for quite a while after I left. They will get healed in time and maybe the info I shared will help them.

Why did I leave? I left because I couldn't choke down what they were feeding me anymore. I was walking around confused a lot of the times. I couldn't make decisions in my life anymore without consulting "leadership". I couldn't even sit in service anymore, and I thought it was because something was wrong with me... I came to realize that the still small voice that I allowed to be silenced in me wouldn't stay silent anymore (the Holy Spirit). God pushed me out of there and then the healing started.

My daughter was about two when I left those churches. She's 15 now and knows the Lord. Most importantly she can now hear His voice, not just mine or my pastor's.

Hammer.....
You have a pastor?
You might aughta look up that word "pastor".

[TheVeteran]

Hammer.....
You have a pastor?
You might aughta look up that word "pastor".

I see where you're going.  I brought that up to, but It was dismissed.   

[HammerRock]

Hammer.....
You have a pastor?
You might aughta look up that word "pastor".

pastor / elder / bishop ... same thing... someone who Lord's over you? no, that's not the definition of a shepherd or pastor. That's the Lord's job. their job, if they are not a hireling, is to help to point you to Christ... not BE GOD FOR YOU.

[TheVeteran]

pastor / elder / bishop ... same thing... someone who Lord's over you? no, that's not the definition of a shepherd or pastor. That's the Lord's job. their job, if they are not a hireling, is to help to point you to Christ... not BE GOD FOR YOU.

You gave us YOUR definition of their job description.  You didn't tell us what "Pastor" actually means.   

[HammerRock]

You gave us YOUR definition of their job description.  You didn't tell us what "Pastor" actually means.   

Can you tell us the difference between a hireling and pastor? And why the difference is important?

[Furious Styles]

I have good in experiences in church and I have had bad. My beliefs aren't formed because of bitterness from those encounters. I am better for the disappointment that I had in church. I can see both sides of the coin. When I speak about the church I'm talking about the BOC. Paul coined this phrase to show us how we are to function as believers. That doesn't always happen but his analogy fits the idealogy that I believe in. It is naive to say that compromising things aren't going on in our fellowships.

That goes for the pulpit to the street. I said this very thing in another post yesterday. Most times my post are taken as if I'm upset or that I hate church. I still attend church!!! I am fortunate to have recognized that within my own temple I have so much work to be done. That's what Jesus came to do. He came to make us all sancturaries. He wants to dwell in us. Imagine Living sacrifices that shine the light in dark places. Since I've been in tuned to this way of thinking, I have noticed that there very few sermons that highlight the importance of the indwelling of the holy spirit. I'm not talking about tarrying or speaking in tongues to prove you have the holy ghost(man made theology) I'm talking about being able to walk and talk with God because he dwells on the inside of you. Imagine temples coming to a place to worship. We still glorify buildings as holy when our bodies have replaced buildings!

I've noticed as Isaiah did that I am a man of uncleaned lips. This self discovery has caused me to understand that this idealogy is absent in most fellowhships. Does the power of God still flow in these ministries? Sure they do. Are they experiencing or hearing what's in my spirit? I don't know. I can't answer that. I can speak to what I see and what God allows me to discern. It would be one thing if I only wanted to find fault with others before I acknowledged my own. That's something that I have never been given credit for since joining LGM. I desire the deeper things of God. I have not found a fellowship that will help me grow in that. I know that to be true.

Self examination can only be accomplished when PREACHERS decide to be transparent and when parishoners are sincerely hungry for the truth. Everyone isn't on that wave length. I have met more people in passing who feel me than I have in "church". My thoughts are consistent with Jesus' thoughts. He was not of the regular establishment of the church organization. It's something to a radical mindset. I'm growing to understand it daily. I have been more convicted in personal meditation than I have ever been in my life!!! Why can't the household of faith grow to this type of maturity? This has nothing to do with whether I hate pastors.(I don't its your diagnosis) It has more to do with me being in search of the deeper depths of God for me. I can admit that some of that may be on me however I know I'm not the only culprit here. Pray that God intervenes if you believe I'm just that far gone.

[TheVeteran]

Can you tell us the difference between a hireling and pastor? And why the difference is important?

You're dancing around the question.     

He asked you to look up the definition of Pastor.....Instead of answering, you asking another question!!!

Forget it.