Intermediate to Professionals

[dfwkeys]

Okay, i still consider myself as a beginner but i always wanted to know how do professional guitarist learn music, do they just hear a song and know what chords to play, or do they usually get a songbook or guitar tab, or do what we do on here, just ask what chords for a song?

[gtrdave]

I've been blessed with a pretty good set of ears and what I guess could be called an inherent musical intuition so I can pretty much play anything within a few seconds if I hear it first.
The thing to remember is that I was a beginner, too, 28 years ago. I struggled to make a barre chord and didn't understand why learning scales was important and listened to musical pieces over and over and over in order to try and figure them out...pieces that now seem very simple to me but back then caused me to sweat and curse.
So I've had a lot of practice and performance time over the years to help nurture and develop my listening skills to where they are today.

I will add this: back 3 decades ago and beyond, we didn't have the internet, we didn't have tabs like we have today, we didn't have the many outlets and forms of media for music that exist today. At best, I had a record player, maybe some tapes and the radio...and proper sheet music or real fake books but I'd have been hard pressed to find any rock and roll songs written in sheet music form and fake books were for jazz/standards.
So my ears and listening skills were pretty much all I had. I didn't see a tab paper until I got an issue of "Guitar for the Practicing Musician" and they tabbed out some metal tune or something but by this time I'd already been playing for several years and could figure out stuff by ear. Plus, tab has always left me sort of cold because while it does show you what notes to play (when it's correct, lol), it does not show you HOW the player plays it. It's devoid of emotion, feel and technique and these are things that either come from listening to others and/or from spending time experimenting on your own.

Your ability to listen and a sense of rhythm are the best natural gifts you have and, knowing what I know now, I'd advise investing as much in them as possible.

[dfwkeys]

Thanks gtrdave! I have a couple of books that help to develop the ear (ear training) but i havn't read them yet, i will start to focus on that now.

[jlynnb1]

usually all i have to do hear song once and i'm straight.

[dfwkeys]

usually all i have to do hear song once and i'm straight.

How long does it take you to develop an ear like that?

[gtrdave]

How long does it take you to develop an ear like that?

I'll answer for me: I've been doing it since I picked up the guitar...actually, before that I used to listen to music and hum the melody or lead guitar and I'd tap out the drums with my fingers.
I used to get notes sent home with my report cards all the way back to first grade where the teacher would comment that I would constantly hum and tap on the desk in class.

[jlynnb1]

here's the thing man, we try and make music more difficult than it is. music, in a defined key, can only do so much, and most of it's patterns. once you can instantly recognize the quality of a chord (major, minor, augmented, diminished) the second you hear it, and once you know how to harmonize the major scale, you'll be able to listen and just play along as you hear the song, no problems.

now i know with some black gospel music things can get pretty out there with the changes some guys use...but even then it's almost always patterns, and once you know the pattern you'll recognize it instently the next time you hear it, and it'll be second nature.

[dfwkeys]

Thanks for everything!

[gtrdave]

now i know with some black gospel music things can get pretty out there with the changes some guys use...but even then it's almost always patterns, and once you know the pattern you'll recognize it instently the next time you hear it, and it'll be second nature.

Yup, Gospel and some jazz music is what helped me grow BIG TIME as a listener because both forms of music use a lot of compound chords (chords that have an upper triad but a movable root/tonic).
Simple forms of compound chords would be D/F# or G/B...these are actually inversions or inversion-based compound chords as the bass note is found in the triad. Example: G/B is a G chord with a B note in the bass. B is the major third of G. Instead playing a G chord you play a G chord with a B note as the lowest note.
Non-inversion compound chords like D/E would be a D chord with an E note in the bass and it's these kinds that are popular in Gospel, especially compound chords with modifiers like Dmaj7/E or Dm7b5/Ab.
When trying to pick these kinds of chords out I'll listen first for either the bass line alone or the upper chords alone and once I've got it, I'll get the other part and assemble it.
I learned this from riding around in a car with Jerry Peters once on our way to a gig, trying to figure out a tune we wanted to play that night but had never heard before. Jerry can pick complex chords out just by hearing them and witnessing him do that in-person inspired me to learn how. 

[uriahsmusic]

..IN MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER....

People usueally just start playing and expected me to fill in the gaps....one situation I was in I had to read everything.....but only one......it also depends on what you are doing....wedding bands use fake books and charts....studio sessions mostly want creativity....performing bands want someone who will do their part......a great ear is essential!  I personally like to play things that they ont expect....most often sticking to "ear candy"...those cool things that are in many of my posts!...that makes peoples head turn when they hear those riffs peaking in and out.

If they just want chords I try to never play what is being played all ready!...I'll add extentions or play a relative of the chord....etc

[JayP5150]

I never really learn EXACTLY what is on the record, unless the song really calls for it--like if it is a signature part that has to be duplicated, then I will. Otherwise, I play what I feel fits the song.

Even when I was playing in that blues-rock outfit years back, the unproclaimed "band leader" would let me learn the main riffs or structure, then shut off the CD (or 8-track--yeah, we had an 8-track in the garage; that's like mojo in a bottle lol). We'd get to a solo part and he'd look at me and go "8 bars in E, with a wah, GO!"

And so that has carried over to everything I do.  If it fits, and you can tell what it is, I'm good.

But I am finally to the point that I can listen to something (as long as it's not uber-complicated) and pretty much have it mapped out in my head. I had been playing for at least 5 or 6 years before I could even begin to do this, and then it was just picking out changes and certain licks.

It's really something that will just hit you gradually.  You won't really notice it until hindsight.

[Donta M Jones]

  To me, being a pro is being able to play with anyone and know when to make changes , keep the timing right, playing and reading the vocalist or keyboardist, and being confident.

[jlynnb1]

  To me, being a pro is being able to play with anyone and know when to make changes , keep the timing right, playing and reading the vocalist or keyboardist, and being confident.

i'd just call that being a competent guitar player bro....

[JayP5150]

Hmm... maybe I misunderstood the original question... I, for the record, do not consider myself to be a professional.

When does that occur? Well, that would be official the day that I could stop going to work, and either play or write songs, or record for others for a living.

I honestly don't even know if I'm all that competent of a player.  I'm pretty unilateral...

But I'm working on it lol.

[mt_spiffy]

I am used to two ways:

1.  They give you a CD of the material a week or so ahead of time, you are expected to learn all the guitar parts on the CD note for note, and add your own parts where there are none

2.  You show up for rehearsal, the MD will tell you what he wants, and you are expected to play THAT note for note.  Where he has no guitar parts in mind, you add your own thing.

[ES7Mike]

When I learn a song, I usually learn everything by ear but I am taking guitar classes now so I can learn how to read guitar music even though I know how to read music. I just found a guitar book with hymns so that should be helpful to me.

[Abe]

I generally run into 2 situations:
1. The choir director would give me a cassette days before rehearsal and the cassette plays off pitch (not 440).
2. You show up for rehearsal and someone start playing the song on the piano and you are to pick up your part.

A. Keep a manuscript book and a pencil w/good eraser in your gig bag at all times. I use "The Musicians Manuscript", 12 stave, 64 pages, $3.95. It also contains some cool musical reference material in the front and back covers.
B. Write the chord changes down and any special playing comments under the stave lines.
C. Be prepared for a key change just in case someone shouts "it's too high...".

and the list goes on...

Be flexible, leave the attitude at home, know your instrument/equipment, educate yourself musically (i.e. scales, inversions, compound chords), expect the unexpected and always be...