Which Scale Position Am I to play in?

[dieogo]

Hey fellow Axe holders! This has been troubling me and hopefully someone can bring clarity to it. I've been playing and still learning the Pentatonic Scale. There are five scale positions on the fret board. My question is, Can either postion be played anywere on the fret board or does it  only sound right in the position it was designated to? If I'm playing around the 12th fret can I use the position 1 scale or do I play in the position 5 scale or does it matter?

[gtrdave]

You can play any position you need to to play whatever it is that you wish to play.
While it might be more convenient to play a certain position over another due to the location of the chords you might be playing before or after the lick or whatever, they're all up for grabs at any given moment and sometimes sliding around from position to position adds emotion...and then sometimes it adds clutter.

This topic brings up two important points to me:
1) More important than learning the scale pattern in different positions is learning the scale sound according to it's interval structure. Thinking in patterns, while a good way to begin familiarizing one's self with scales, is limiting in the long run UNLESS you become so familiar with every pattern of every scales that they stop looking like "patterns". Also, the open, 1st and 2nd positions can be limiting because some of the patterns just don't work due to the nut and open strings.
Thinking in intervals removes this limitation, imho.

2) Also more important than scales and patterns is the ability to actually turn all these notes into understandable and maybe even interesting communication between yourself and the listener.
At the end of the day a scale is not a solo. A scale is just notes in a given order. A solo is expressing yourself by saying something interesting with your instrument, hopefully in the context of the song you're playing in (if applicable). A good way to learn this is to listen to other musicians and the way they communicate with their instrument.
It's like learning the alphabet and learning words...eventually we have to learn how to put those words into a certain order and then speak them so that others can understand what it is that we're saying, using verbal punctuation and dynamics in our voice to emphasize and give life to our speech.
Try to do the same with your instrument using the notes and chords and time.

[jlynnb1]

if i understand your question, you would usually use the first position of the pentatonic scale when starting on the root note of the key you are playing in, and by first position i mean this patter, in the key of A minor:

---5---8---
---5---8---
---5---7---
---5---7---
---5---7---
---5---8---

the other positions would coorespond to where you were playing on the neck in relation to your root note, so if you were playing around the 8th fret, (the C major relative to A minor), you'd probably base around this shape:

---8---10---
---8---10---
---7---9---
---7---10---
---7---10---
---8---10---

and if you take all the shapes up to the octave:

---5---8---  ---8---10---  ---10---12---  ---12---15---  ---15---17---
---5---8---  ---8---10---  ---10---13---  ---13---15---  ---15---17---
---5---7---  ---7---9---    ---9---12---   ---12---14---  ---14---17---
---5---7---  ---7---10---  ---10---12---  ---12---14---  ---14---17---
---5---7---  ---7---10---  ---10---12---  ---12---15---  ---15---17--- (then to position 1 at the 17th fret for the
---5---8---  ---8---10---  ---10---12---  ---12---15---  ---15---17---    octave)

like dave said, these are just notes, just pieces of the puzzle. and it's just the same 5 notes over and over, so it's not rocket science. but it IS VERY important to master the fretboard, to be able to play no matter where you are on the neck, and to learn to seamlessly connect the notes you are playing up and down the fretboard, in very position. there's nothing worse than seeing someone who gets lost everytime they venture outside the 1st position pentatonic box.

[Rown]

You can play any position you need to to play whatever it is that you wish to play.
While it might be more convenient to play a certain position over another due to the location of the chords you might be playing before or after the lick or whatever, they're all up for grabs at any given moment and sometimes sliding around from position to position adds emotion...and then sometimes it adds clutter.

This topic brings up two important points to me:
1) More important than learning the scale pattern in different positions is learning the scale sound according to it's interval structure. Thinking in patterns, while a good way to begin familiarizing one's self with scales, is limiting in the long run UNLESS you become so familiar with every pattern of every scales that they stop looking like "patterns". Also, the open, 1st and 2nd positions can be limiting because some of the patterns just don't work due to the nut and open strings.
Thinking in intervals removes this limitation, imho.

2) Also more important than scales and patterns is the ability to actually turn all these notes into understandable and maybe even interesting communication between yourself and the listener.
At the end of the day a scale is not a solo. A scale is just notes in a given order. A solo is expressing yourself by saying something interesting with your instrument, hopefully in the context of the song you're playing in (if applicable). A good way to learn this is to listen to other musicians and the way they communicate with their instrument.
It's like learning the alphabet and learning words...eventually we have to learn how to put those words into a certain order and then speak them so that others can understand what it is that we're saying, using verbal punctuation and dynamics in our voice to emphasize and give life to our speech.
Try to do the same with your instrument using the notes and chords and time.

YEA;One problem i have,is how to use scales or embellishments,between chords.You know,if you are playing a B chord,then you want to go to another chord,what to do in between.Just to spice it up some what.

[jlynnb1]

YEA;One problem i have,is how to use scales or embellishments,between chords.You know,if you are playing a B chord,then you want to go to another chord,what to do in between.Just to spice it up some what.

you then focus more on the chord-tones of the chord you are playing over, or the passing notes/tension notes to those chord-tones.

[Gibby]

you then focus more on the chord-tones of the chord you are playing over, or the passing notes/tension notes to those chord-tones.

you could use common tones too right?

[jlynnb1]

you could use common tones too right?

yeah, i'm just saying if you are playing a song in E major, over the A chord(the IV chord), you'd emphasize the the tones that are diatonic to that chord (A, C#, E.....which are the 4th, 6th and Root, respectively) any note in the major scale WORKS over the IV chord...., but I'm just saying it may make more sense to your eras to work off those chord tones when playing over that chord.

I once read someone say that you should be able to hear whatever chord is being solo'd over without having to ACTUALLY hear it. I don't think that strongly about it, but it's not a bad rule to keep in mind.

[Gibby]

yeah, i'm just saying if you are playing a song in E major, over the A chord(the IV chord), you'd emphasize the the tones that are diatonic to that chord (A, C#, E.....which are the 4th, 6th and Root, respectively) any note in the major scale WORKS over the IV chord...., but I'm just saying it may make more sense to your eras to work off those chord tones when playing over that chord.

I once read someone say that you should be able to hear whatever chord is being solo'd over without having to ACTUALLY hear it. I don't think that strongly about it, but it's not a bad rule to keep in mind.

Thanx for the info!

[Rown]

you then focus more on the chord-tones of the chord you are playing over, or the passing notes/tension notes to those chord-tones.

THANKS;BROTHER jlynnb 1