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Author Topic: Why do churches under pay organists?  (Read 15600 times)

Offline sugeheights

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2007, 09:35:45 PM »
Listen to this. What happens if the pastor gets sick and dont come to church? the church does just fine without him during the service. ANother person can preach. But let your ORGANIST call in sick for 3 weeks straight. And lets see how your church service will be for 3 WEEKS! I know this is right! Its NOT agregious! Its true. On sunday morning, the organist carries the service. The pastor doesnt. Half the time, the pastor dont come out to the pulpit until like 30-40 minutes INTO THE SERVICE! So if the organist isnt the most important person during worship service, then WHO IS? I know JESUS is but as far as the PAID employees are concerned, the organist IS!

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2007, 09:50:00 PM »
Listen to this. What happens if the pastor gets sick and dont come to church? the church does just fine without him during the service. ANother person can preach. But let your ORGANIST call in sick for 3 weeks straight. And lets see how your church service will be for 3 WEEKS! I know this is right! Its NOT agregious! Its true. On sunday morning, the organist carries the service. The pastor doesnt. Half the time, the pastor dont come out to the pulpit until like 30-40 minutes INTO THE SERVICE! So if the organist isnt the most important person during worship service, then WHO IS? I know JESUS is but as far as the PAID employees are concerned, the organist IS!


Depending on the church, an organist can be found, real quick. ;)

Furthermore, finding someone who can CORRECTLY exegete biblical text ain't as easy as YOU'RE trying to make it sound.  :-\


Your theory, is off......waaaaaaay off. I'll be prayin' for ya. :-\


BTW, if my church organist calls in sick 3 weeks straight, it's time to find another organist, anyway. ::)
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline youngmusician09

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2007, 10:54:20 PM »

THIS is the most egregious LIE I've ever read in my tenure on LGM. It's so fraught with untruth that it's scary. :-\

Hi-five all the way from Louisiana.

Offline drummerboy23

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2007, 11:43:23 PM »
Hello all, just wanted to put my 2 cents in.  I truly believe that in order to play skillfully and to stay  blessed with the ability to play the organ, or any instrument in the church you must stay in the will of GOD.  Yes I play the drums for my church, but that don't make the church go round.  We must remember GOD has given some people awesome gifts to play.  But are we really playing for Gods annointing or is we playing for the LOVE OF MONEY.  If you are looking for that big pay check and you are searching for money go and try to land a gig.  But in the house of GOD play to give god the glory.  Play until you feel the annointing.  Most musicians these days have lost the humbleness that a musician should carry or have.  Remember the reasons Satan was kicked out of heaven.  I challange all musicians that play in the house of God to search themselves and see is they really living the life that God will be pleased with. 

I would rather go to HEAVEN with my pockets empty and my soul saved
Than to go to HELL and burn with a pocket full of money ;) p

Offline sugeheights

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2007, 11:48:23 PM »
How many preachers do you think are CORRECTLY exegeting texts every sunday? Most of these black preachers have fake doctorate of divinity degrees and are CROOKED any ways! Sermons are 30-40 minutes. Singing is like 1hr 30 minutes of the church service. THE MUSIC ministry is the MOST important ministry on sunday! Yes it is always good to have a good word. But the CHOIR and the organist carry the service. NOT the pastor! I will be praying for you as well! I am going to be going to divinity school to earn a masters. Do you know that most preachers dont even know how to publicly speak well? They dont even know how to WRITE A SERMON! And on sunday, many of them are LONG winded and they LOSE people's interest! Now come on dont act like I aint right about this! If you had to choose one not to come to church on sunday, who would you pick? THe pastor or the organist? Well being that there are OTHER minister's on the roster, I would pick the pastor. A DEACON can preach a sermon if needed!

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2007, 08:13:23 AM »
How many preachers do you think are CORRECTLY exegeting texts every sunday? Most of these black preachers have fake doctorate of divinity degrees and are CROOKED any ways! Sermons are 30-40 minutes. Singing is like 1hr 30 minutes of the church service. THE MUSIC ministry is the MOST important ministry on sunday! Yes it is always good to have a good word. But the CHOIR and the organist carry the service. NOT the pastor! I will be praying for you as well! I am going to be going to divinity school to earn a masters. Do you know that most preachers dont even know how to publicly speak well? They dont even know how to WRITE A SERMON! And on sunday, many of them are LONG winded and they LOSE people's interest! Now come on dont act like I aint right about this! If you had to choose one not to come to church on sunday, who would you pick? THe pastor or the organist? Well being that there are OTHER minister's on the roster, I would pick the pastor. A DEACON can preach a sermon if needed!


Your logic is terribly flawed. I'll say it like this, anybody, and I mean ANYBODY can be replaced.

I don't care that there are fake preachers out there. There are fake organists out there, too. Playing a sequencer with organ sounds and transpose buttons; so don't try to go there.

What you're suggesting is very, very dangerous, my dear friend. People should come to church, solely, to hear the music? :o That's crazy; and explains a lot about the poor state of a lot of churches in this country. We've put emphasis on EVERYTHING else, BUT God.


A workman IS worthy of his hire; and there ARE churches that do ALL of their musicians (and other paid positions) dirty and THAT'S a sin and a shame. But, what you're saying goes waaaay beyond what we're discussing here.


The correct choice is choosing a church that preaches and teaches the WORD OF GOD!!! Period.


Be Blessed.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline Julie spivey

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2007, 08:17:56 AM »
Paul and Simon in the jailhouse...sang praises to God...AND THE WALLS CAME TUMBLING DOWN...uuhh.uhh
...nope....read it for the thousanth time...no organ,bass,guitar,drums...sure I know there were temple musicians..but when YOU get desperate enough for God...YOU will not need music..just the word and a Good Shephard TO guide..


 ps my personal income was around 17,000 the year I came to the Lord
no college...never asked for pay..just trusted in the Lord to PROVIDE...72,000 a year..@ the same job!!
And I guarantee you It was not me...All praise to Jesus

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2007, 08:44:26 AM »
Paul and Simon in the jailhouse...sang praises to God...AND THE WALLS CAME TUMBLING DOWN...uuhh.uhh
...nope....read it for the thousanth time...no organ,bass,guitar,drums...sure I know there were temple musicians..but when YOU get desperate enough for God...YOU will not need music..just the word and a Good Shephard TO guide..


 ps my personal income was around 17,000 the year I came to the Lord
no college...never asked for pay..just trusted in the Lord to PROVIDE...72,000 a year..@ the same job!!
And I guarantee you It was not me...All praise to Jesus

Just a quick correction, I think you meant to say, "Silas". Other than that, you gets a ^5. :D
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline THE WOLFMAN

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2007, 09:01:52 AM »
UHM, mebbe in YO chu'ch, pahtna.......

Offline Julie spivey

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2007, 11:49:50 AM »
Just a quick correction, I think you meant to say, "Silas". Other than that, you gets a ^5. :D



      :o ;D :D oops My bad...guess I,ll reread it for a thousand and one time LOL !!

Offline Big T.

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2007, 07:21:18 PM »
I play for two small churches. I earn $150 a week at both. Although we are performing a service to the Lord, the bible says "let the workman be worthy of his hire," that means that if you do a job, and do it well, you should reap the reward. How many of us musicians make sacrifices to work with a church, we sacrifice our time, money (with the price of gas these days). I feel that if we do our best with the talent that the Lord has blessed us with, the church should do it's best to compensate us. Let us not forget, many of us invest in our music ministries by paying for lessons, buying equipment to practice and perform with, and purchasing the latest cd's to stay abreast of what's hot in gospel music, that is what ;D the churches hire us for in the first place. right?
Go with God, cause He always goes with you.

Offline sugeheights

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2007, 01:00:44 AM »
Bout time somebody feeling me.

Offline Julie spivey

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2007, 07:11:57 AM »
I play for two small churches. I earn $150 a week at both. Although we are performing a service to the Lord, the bible says "let the workman be worthy of his hire," that means that if you do a job, and do it well, you should reap the reward. How many of us musicians make sacrifices to work with a church, we sacrifice our time, money (with the price of gas these days). I feel that if we do our best with the talent that the Lord has blessed us with, the church should do it's best to compensate us. Let us not forget, many of us invest in our music ministries by paying for lessons, buying equipment to practice and perform with, and purchasing the latest cd's to stay abreast of what's hot in gospel music, that is what ;D the churches hire us for in the first place. right?

Agree with virtually all you have said....question remains..whom is the Judge of the workman and how worthy is he?
If this is man than recieve your earthly reward...If this is God then your reward comes through him

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2007, 08:09:00 AM »
I play for two small churches. I earn $150 a week at both. Although we are performing a service to the Lord, the bible says "let the workman be worthy of his hire," that means that if you do a job, and do it well, you should reap the reward. How many of us musicians make sacrifices to work with a church, we sacrifice our time, money (with the price of gas these days). I feel that if we do our best with the talent that the Lord has blessed us with, the church should do it's best to compensate us. Let us not forget, many of us invest in our music ministries by paying for lessons, buying equipment to practice and perform with, and purchasing the latest cd's to stay abreast of what's hot in gospel music, that is what ;D the churches hire us for in the first place. right?

A few quick question(s):


Are you saying that the ONLY reason you take the lessons, buy the equipment, purchase the latest CDs AND practice is so that you can play for somebody's music ministry?

Do you ONLY do these things when you're hired by a church OR did you do these things BEFORE getting hired by a church?


What if you never got hired OR were fired, had to move, etc. What then? Would you NOT buy another CD or stop practicing until you got hired?

Lastly, are your motives SOLELY based on your being hired by a church? In other words, would you stop making an investment in YOU just because you're NOT playing for a church?


I'll let that marinate for a minute. ;) :)
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline shtiiiii

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2007, 05:55:33 PM »
All good answers, hummmm let see 80 percent of service,do you like to work and not get your fair share of your pay.  Dealing with many people in each choir.  A souce of income yet if I lost  my hands no insurance to replace that income.  Being a musican is ALOT OF STRESS!

Offline PianoWizard

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2007, 06:08:42 PM »
Welcome to the LGM family "shtiiiii".....Be Blessed.

PianoWiz...

Offline youngmusician09

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2007, 08:09:09 PM »
If the organist was more important than the preacher of the Word, what would the music be based on?  The annointing in a musician through his or her music only comes with their relationship and knowledge of God.  It's because they know what God is all about that they worship Him through their music ministry.  So you mean to tell me that you solely play in the house of worship as a source of income instead of a source of tapping in to the knowledge and presence of God? (Sorry if I went too deep out of the question. :-\)

Offline Metronome

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #77 on: September 09, 2007, 10:51:52 PM »
Put it like this.............unless you've been in a situation where you've been underpaid and mistreated........you are going to more than likely not agree and say that "oh, one should play for god alone".  Now dont get me wrong, thats a cool way to go and I'm not knockin anyone for it.  BUT, once you get people straight up lying then firing you/gettin another musician to cover themselves up, THATS where the problem is. I dont even think there is really a such thing as being underpaid because nobody makes you sign that contract. 
Keep It Funky

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #78 on: September 10, 2007, 06:27:28 AM »
Put it like this.............unless you've been in a situation where you've been underpaid and mistreated........you are going to more than likely not agree and say that "oh, one should play for god alone".  Now dont get me wrong, thats a cool way to go and I'm not knockin anyone for it.  BUT, once you get people straight up lying then firing you/gettin another musician to cover themselves up, THATS where the problem is. I dont even think there is really a such thing as being underpaid because nobody makes you sign that contract. 


My Dawg, THAT'S a whole 'notha thread, right there. :-\
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline Wolfram

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Re: Why do churches under pay organists?
« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2007, 09:17:31 AM »
A few quick question(s):


Are you saying that the ONLY reason you take the lessons, buy the equipment, purchase the latest CDs AND practice is so that you can play for somebody's music ministry?

Do you ONLY do these things when you're hired by a church OR did you do these things BEFORE getting hired by a church?


What if you never got hired OR were fired, had to move, etc. What then? Would you NOT buy another CD or stop practicing until you got hired?

Lastly, are your motives SOLELY based on your being hired by a church? In other words, would you stop making an investment in YOU just because you're NOT playing for a church?


I'll let that marinate for a minute. ;) :)

Let me turn this around so the mirror is on you.  Take YOUR job...  The one that puts food on your family's table.  Ask yourself those same questions in context to your job.  I can appreciate the fact that folks love to try and pin the badge of "It's your responsibility" onto all working musicians when it comes to playing for the Lord.  My question is that a plumber must have tools, as does an electrician, a welder, a carpenter, what is different about music?.  All jobs require tools of the trade.  Your arguement is flawed because you are trying to paint someone in the corner with a weak premise.

We practice, go to school, listen to music, and take lessons in order to be the BEST that we CAN be.  This is primarily so we can be hireable.  You would not hire a mechanic that had no training.  You would not hire a plumber that had no credentials or idea of what he was doing.  Likewise, a working musician is doing all this work for the end outcome...  To get hired...  Now whether or not you accept payment is up to you.   It is so easy to paint with broad strokes on the woes of asking for $$, but the reality of it is, the church musician is no different than any other member of the staff an should be treated as thus. 

I DISAGREE, however with the statement of musicians being more important the the preacher.  The MESSAGE is ALWAYS the most important thing.  You do not HAVE to have music in your services, but you must have a good pastor to keep the church on the path.

W
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