Help with a substitution

[karendj]

Not sure how to say this. In the song "Bless the Lord, Oh My Soul" I am trying to figure out how to theorize or explain how this substitution was made.
I - CEG -Bless the Lord
5 - BDG -Oh My Soul
I - CEG - And all
I - GCE -that
II - ADF -is
I- CEG -with in
OR
??-Bb diminished 6 (root position) - with in

First why does this substitution work? Bb is not in the key of C. And what scale degree would that be??? I play this every Sunday morning as the opening and I am trying to understand what I am doing.

Lastly, below why does this chord work at the end of the song? I don't know if it's a substitution or what, it just works.

III- AbBE -Bless
??? -AbBDE -His
VI-EAC -Ho
V -FGBD -ly
I -EGC -name

[karendj]

Searching to find answers to my own questions...... I found this quoted on another thread. Alterations are notes that are not originally from the scale that you can add to your chords.. I can assume that the Bb diminished six is not a substitution, but an alteration???

Alterations are notes that are not originally from the scale that you can add to your chords.. these are the #4 equal to (#11), b5, b9, #9, b13 equal to (#5).  These notes add color.. in other words if the 3 and 7 are the basic flavor then these alteration notes are the salt, pepper, Mrs. Dash, garlic.. they definitely spice things up. Take Note: so when you heard that chords that just sounds CRAZY.. suspect that an alteration or two or three are in the mix somewhere.. Don't believe me!! Well try this.. play the Db major scale (that is major harmony) now.. play the DbAbDb (1-5-1) in your left hand then play a G (b5) in the right hand.. DO YOU HEAR THAT?.. or try to play a E (b9).. DO YOU HEAR THAT? it sounded off or as they say disonant.. it just don't seem to go together but trust me that is how you get that interesting flavor and sound!

[4hisglory]

Not sure how to say this. In the song "Bless the Lord, Oh My Soul" I am trying to figure out how to theorize or explain how this substitution was made.
I - CEG -Bless the Lord
5 - BDG -Oh My Soul
I - CEG - And all
I - GCE -that
II - ADF -is
I- CEG -with in
OR
??-Bb diminished 6 (root position) - with in

That Bb Diminished 7th  is actually a C7b9 (circle of 5ths at work).....the next chord is a F so its like making a V - I progression in the key of F

Here is how I might do it


Degree - LH / RH - Lyrics
I - CG / CDEG -Bless the Lord
ii - DFA / CEG -Oh My Soul
I - CG / CDEG - And all
I - C  / GCE -that
ii - D / ACDF -is
iii - E / BDEG - with
V - C / Bb Db E G - in * Here I kind though about i in the key of F
I - F / A C F -me

There's a lot of ways to think about it and flip it.  I hope I was clear.

[karendj]

THanks 4HISGLORY, but I am totally lost!

Maybe I named my chord incorrectly, That C/ BbDbEG is what I've been playing. I thought it was a Bb diminished 6 in root position?

[4hisglory]

You shouldn't look at your chords as left hand and right hand, look at your hands at a "unit", they work together to form "one" sound

C/ BbDbEG = C7b9 (C(seven) flat (nine)

If you still aren't clear, let me know.


*note.  There isn't such thing as a Bb Diminished 6th.  Its a diminished 7th

[karendj]

That makes sense. THANKS!!!

[karendj]

*note.  There isn't such thing as a Bb Diminished 6th.  Its a diminished 7th

?/?I am going to have to tell my teacher that, cause he wrote it on my music.

[4hisglory]

The seventh is actually "double flatted" so sometimes people will say sixths which is WRONG but technically its the same.   So if you say diminished sixth around...like a Jazz Musician, they may look at you funny.

[karendj]

Thanks! I totally get your explanation for why that chord works now.

[4hisglory]

Once you learn this chord, you can use it a lot actually.


Degree - LH / RH - Lyrics
I - CG / CDEG -Bless the Lord
vi - A E / Bb Db E - (Passing Chord)
ii - DFA / CEG -Oh My Soul
V = G D / Ab B D F - (Passing Chord)
I - CG / CDEG - And all
I - C  / GCE -that
ii - D / ACDF -is
iii - E / BDEG - with
V - C / Bb Db E G - in *Change thinking to the key of F
I - F / A C F -me

[T-Block]

The seventh is actually "double flatted" so sometimes people will say sixths which is WRONG but technically its the same.   So if you say diminished sixth around...like a Jazz Musician, they may look at you funny.

Just to add onto what 4hisglory wrote, when people use the term dim6, you should read that as a diminished chord with an added 6th. So:

Bbdim6 = Bbdim + 6 = Bb-Db-Fb + G = Bb-Db-Fb-G (or any other spellings)


Thoretically, that's fine, but the best way to write it would be Bbdim7. That's read as the Bb diminished chord with an added diminished 7th:

Bbdim7 = Bbdim + dim7 = Bb-Db-Fb + Abb = Bb-Db-Fb-Abb (or any other spellings)

[karendj]

Thanks, Guys I think i understand. A Gdiminished6 as written in my music, is
GBbDbE = Gdim (GBbDb) + 6 (E)
AKA
GBbDbE = Gdim (GBbDb) + dim 7 (flattened F)

So in company of musical giants I should say,  Gdiminished Chord with a diminished 7 or a Gdiminished7.

Also, special thanks for helping me understand that my left and right hands work together to form chords. I was clueless about what was really going on in the left hand. Now I really understand the 9ths and 11ths and 13ths. I started playing 2 notes in the left just in the last 3 days and I've been playing only 1 for the last 3 years. THANKS! I've been blessed beyond measure!!!

[T-Block]

Thanks, Guys I think i understand. A Gdiminished6 as written in my music, is
GBbDbE = Gdim (GBbDb) + 6 (E)
AKA
GBbDbE = Gdim (GBbDb) + dim 7 (flattened F)

So in company of musical giants I should say,  Gdiminished Chord with a diminished 7 or a Gdiminished7.

Where you have the "GBbDbE = Gdim (GBbDb) + dim 7 (flattened F)", just remember that the dim 7 in this chord is not a flattened F, it's a double flattened F#.

In the company of musical giants, just call it a Gdim7.

[4hisglory]

Also, special thanks for helping me understand that my left and right hands work together to form chords.

Realizing that your hands are a unit was one of my first big steps because it opens you up to playing the same chords in different ways.

Example:
A beginner will typically play a a C7 (C Dominant 7) like this

LH / RH
C / C E G Bb

But if you spread the chords out, you will start to get a fuller sound

C Bb / E G Bb
or
C G / E Bb

From there you can start to alter your chords

C E Bb / Db Gb Bb -C7#9b5

And on and on and on.