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[B3Wannabe]

First, Db and Eb don't feel the same!

LOL

I don't understand that one. I can see Db and Gb, but Eb?....


I don't transpose now, but I'm with the dude that says leave the transposers alone. I have to work on my scales in all they keys. I have the black ones, C, F, and B down. D is OK, but it's lacking.

[T-Block]

First, Db and Eb don't feel the same!

LOL

I don't understand that one. I can see Db and Gb, but Eb?....

You miss the point man.  The point is i was so used to playing in Eb and so not used to playing in Db that my fingers automatically went to my familiar key cuz i didn't pay attention.  It can happen at any in any key i am not that good in.  You get it now?

[amandaag]

i hate playing in Eb and sometimes Ab. But i pretty much get all the white keys down. I also got C# and Bb down too.

[B3Wannabe]

You miss the point man.  The point is i was so used to playing in Eb and so not used to playing in Db that my fingers automatically went to my familiar key cuz i didn't pay attention.  It can happen at any in any key i am not that good in.  You get it now?

I was joking with you guys, but serious at the same time.

I know what you mean though. I just never had that problem. I would freeze instead of fumble, because I couldn't think of the next chord shape....I wonder which is worse.

[Pianist84]

Thanks for posting this! I never really had to depend on the transpose button anyway. The transpose button hinders you from learning other keys. We should all challenge ourselves to be fluently in all 12 keys.

[B3Wannabe]

I'm actually tired of this discussion. I don't understand why people would even get upset at someone else for using transpose. It's crazy to me. I've heard people say that you're not a musician, if you don't play in all the keys. Why is that important?

There are people that say you're not a musician, if you can't read music, know theory, or can play scales properly. It's all nonsense to me. The majority of Gospel musicians can't read music, therefore, the majority of Gospel musicians aren't really musicians. If you're going to down someone for using transpose, and you don't know how to read music, then you might as well be called musically-illiterate. If you can play in every key, but your scales are messy, then you're probably not a true musician. If you play the organ, and you STILL don't know what all the drawbars do, or the history behind the organ, then you're probably not a real organist. If you can play in all the keys, but you can't name every chord or progression that you play, then you're probably not a true musician. If you don't transpose, but you're on here asking for chords, THEN YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT A TRUE MUSICIAN!

Real musicians would learn how to do ALL of that.

What's ultimately important is that we give God our best and that we're true when we praise Him. I understand that transposing hinders you, but how many of us do OTHER things that hinder us spiritually.




I have my own amen.

[Runs_N_12_Keys]

Wow wow wow,

Thank you for you Feedback!  I really didn’t expect this Post to be so popular. Honestly; I Didn’t know what to expect but I am glad to see that the majority of you knows how much of a crutch the transpose button can really be,   I can say a lot more on the Subject but it has already been said and confirmed So Again, thanks For your Response and if anyone is interested in becoming apart of the L.A.T Movement Feel free to hit me up  PM or Email me Wholelottablack@yahoo.com  and you can also find me on the tyetribbetworldwide.com under “The Shed that Never Ends”   

Let’s learn as much as we possible can.  The Right Way!!!

L.A.T 4 Life


Thank you!

[minofmusic]

we had a concert saturday night, and the group that performed before us had a Roland Fantom on stage so we decided in order to make a smooth transition we would play the keyboards that wer already set up, my friend coco who played the session with us, sat on the keys(fantom she did a quick run in F but she said it didnt sound right. so she asked me to play F on my keyboard, so i did and it was truly transposed. no you might say all you gotta do is just fix it right. my friend coco has never transposed because she was taught on a grand piano, she didnt even know where the transpose button was on the fantom. As you can see we couldn't transition smoothly, so we had to call the musician who just played out of the crowd so that he could come back and adjust the transpose button. i felt kinda bad because i couldnt even find the transpose on the fantom. i guess i need to learn all the boards but we finally got it together and jammed for Jesus. just my two cents

[B3Wannabe]

we had a concert saturday night, and the group that performed before us had a Roland Fantom on stage so we decided in order to make a smooth transition we would play the keyboards that wer already set up, my friend coco who played the session with us, sat on the keys(fantom she did a quick run in F but she said it didnt sound right. so she asked me to play F on my keyboard, so i did and it was truly transposed. no you might say all you gotta do is just fix it right. my friend coco has never transposed because she was taught on a grand piano, she didnt even know where the transpose button was on the fantom. As you can see we couldn't transition smoothly, so we had to call the musician who just played out of the crowd so that he could come back and adjust the transpose button. i felt kinda bad because i couldnt even find the transpose on the fantom. i guess i need to learn all the boards but we finally got it together and jammed for Jesus. just my two cents

I have a reverse for that.

It shouldn't matter if the keyboard was transposed...IF a person knows all their keys fluently.

I've gotten on a keyboard behind someone who had transposed. If it's just a half step, I can't tell, and I'll play the song in the wrong key the whole time. If it's a whole-step, I'll try to fix it. If the pressure is on to start then I'll just un-transpose it mentally. I may not do as well, but hey...it's an exercise for me then! It'll only make me better, so I don't complain.

[chevonee]

It's not fair to diagnose the problem without giving a remedy or solution. Don't transpose but here is a way out of transposing...this is how you can learn how to play fluently in every key.....http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,42768.0.html

[Metronome]

On some real...........................transpos ing is WHACK!!! It is pointless to me..honestly.  Maybe because I learned how to play on an organ and an acoustic piano lol.  If a person is showing effot to learn their keys then thats cool, I mean not everybody progresses at the same pace.  But if you been playin for 10 years you should not only know 4 keys.  I'm not buying it at all. 

[ProMaestro]

Some people aren't able to use the "hand placement" and stuff when trying to play in another key.  But Ima give you all my take on this transposing.  I think nothing is wrong with it, honestly.  When I started out playing about (more than 15 years ago) I had to use that transpose button because I didn't know jack diddley squat about music.  It was then when my church traveled to another church or something, that I had to learn how to transpose really quick!  I didnt have a reliable keyboard so I used their pianos, some in good order and some not.  Let me tell you...down in the country churches in the back woods of the Carolinas, where the choir can sing bitonally and tritonally, you have to learn how to play in all keys.  If it wasn't for me taking piano lessons and just "churchin'" it, I wouldn't be able to play in all 12 major keys and all 36 different types of minors..and even in some of those ethnic and world keys.  But my point is, don't let a skill determine your playing ability.  First and foremost, all of us musicians should be playing for God and His glory.  Everybody has a different "skill" level in playing.  I do encourage folks to get out of transposing cause you never know when you are going to get to a church that doesn't have that option.  I see the transposing as a teaching tool.  It will help you at anytime.  If someone can only praise and show their God given gift in the key of C or Db, it doesn't matter.  I know God isn't sitting there knockin' the skill and ability of whom He has given.  But on the flip side..any of you all ever play behind a singer that's not in any key?  They are actually between the key.  I had one lady that sang in between F and E.  She was hard down in between those keys.  If I played in F, it sounded off.  If I played in E, it still sounded off.  LOL  How you gonna transpose that?

[B3Wannabe]

Some people aren't able to use the "hand placement" and stuff when trying to play in another key.  But Ima give you all my take on this transposing.  I think nothing is wrong with it, honestly.  When I started out playing about (more than 15 years ago) I had to use that transpose button because I didn't know jack diddley squat about music.  It was then when my church traveled to another church or something, that I had to learn how to transpose really quick!  I didnt have a reliable keyboard so I used their pianos, some in good order and some not.  Let me tell you...down in the country churches in the back woods of the Carolinas, where the choir can sing bitonally and tritonally, you have to learn how to play in all keys.  If it wasn't for me taking piano lessons and just "churchin'" it, I wouldn't be able to play in all 12 major keys and all 36 different types of minors..and even in some of those ethnic and world keys.  But my point is, don't let a skill determine your playing ability.  First and foremost, all of us musicians should be playing for God and His glory.  Everybody has a different "skill" level in playing.  I do encourage folks to get out of transposing cause you never know when you are going to get to a church that doesn't have that option.  I see the transposing as a teaching tool.  It will help you at anytime.  If someone can only praise and show their God given gift in the key of C or Db, it doesn't matter.  I know God isn't sitting there knockin' the skill and ability of whom He has given.  But on the flip side..any of you all ever play behind a singer that's not in any key?  They are actually between the key.  I had one lady that sang in between F and E.  She was hard down in between those keys.  If I played in F, it sounded off.  If I played in E, it still sounded off.  LOL  How you gonna transpose that?

That's when you hit the tuning knob!

LOL

[chevonee]

Some people aren't able to use the "hand placement" and stuff when trying to play in another key.  But Ima give you all my take on this transposing.  I think nothing is wrong with it, honestly.  When I started out playing about (more than 15 years ago) I had to use that transpose button because I didn't know jack diddley squat about music.  It was then when my church traveled to another church or something, that I had to learn how to transpose really quick!  I didnt have a reliable keyboard so I used their pianos, some in good order and some not.  Let me tell you...down in the country churches in the back woods of the Carolinas, where the choir can sing bitonally and tritonally, you have to learn how to play in all keys.  If it wasn't for me taking piano lessons and just "churchin'" it, I wouldn't be able to play in all 12 major keys and all 36 different types of minors..and even in some of those ethnic and world keys.  But my point is, don't let a skill determine your playing ability.  First and foremost, all of us musicians should be playing for God and His glory.  Everybody has a different "skill" level in playing.  I do encourage folks to get out of transposing cause you never know when you are going to get to a church that doesn't have that option.  I see the transposing as a teaching tool.  It will help you at anytime.  If someone can only praise and show their God given gift in the key of C or Db, it doesn't matter.  I know God isn't sitting there knockin' the skill and ability of whom He has given.  But on the flip side..any of you all ever play behind a singer that's not in any key?  They are actually between the key.  I had one lady that sang in between F and E.  She was hard down in between those keys.  If I played in F, it sounded off.  If I played in E, it still sounded off.  LOL  How you gonna transpose that?

I can agree with this part. To me as long as you are striving to get better then no one should knock you.....because atleast you are trying. I don't get it right all of the time, but you better believe that I am striving as hard as I can to be the best that I can be. I am very, very close to be able to play in all 12. I just got serious about playing last year, and look how far God has brought me. It can be done, but it takes different people a different amount of time to learn. That's what this site is all about LEARNING!
Again we should provide solutions to the problem and not just talk about the problem. What can young musicians do to learn how to play in every key? Some of them simply don't know what to do which is why I give this link so that they can go there and get help. We should stay in balance and get on to people about transposing but make sure that you show them what to do. http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,42768.0.html

[Runs_N_12_Keys]

What's up to all my LAT's and up and Coming LAT's

My Crew host Phone shed's every Wednesday at 10PM (EST)

If you are interested in participating heres the number:

(218) 862-1115

Conference ID:
25321#

See Hear you there!!

LAT 4 Life!!

[MrSparrow]

Yo RUNS... what up padna???

I don't log on that much in here but I think people are misunderstanding the L.A.T. movement.

Kats that just started out learning how to play don't quite understand the REALATIONSHIP the keys and chords have with each other... They are babes and babes can't eat steak, they have to drink milk.

You ever seen a 4 year old kid wearing diapers and sucking on a bottle? I'm not talking about a mentally or physically challenged kids I'm talking about kids who's parents are just LAZY and haven't taken the time to ween them off of the bottle and to potty train them...

To me and the LATs that's what cats that been playing for 2-20 years and can only play in C, F and G look like to us.

I mean, WHY CAN'T YOU LEARN A DIFFERENT KEY a week? Is it THAT hard or are you just LAZY???

I know about 3 cats that are just like that and the main thing about them all is they THINK THEY ARE JUST DAT DUDE!!!! just as arrogant as can be...

Maybe that's just a Florida thing...

This is why we're calling the VETERANS out. God called us to be SKILLFUL and to hone our skills as we render service to HIM. Cats that don't even bother to improve just irk me.

MrSparrow

[T-Block]

It all goes back to people wanting to play good now.  So, they sacrifice time and developing their skills in every key for pushing a button to sound like a pro in a month when a lot of people been at it for 10+ years w/out the transpose button.

[Wolfram]

I'm actually tired of this discussion. I don't understand why people would even get upset at someone else for using transpose. It's crazy to me. I've heard people say that you're not a musician, if you don't play in all the keys. Why is that important?

There are people that say you're not a musician, if you can't read music, know theory, or can play scales properly. It's all nonsense to me. The majority of Gospel musicians can't read music, therefore, the majority of Gospel musicians aren't really musicians. If you're going to down someone for using transpose, and you don't know how to read music, then you might as well be called musically-illiterate. If you can play in every key, but your scales are messy, then you're probably not a true musician. If you play the organ, and you STILL don't know what all the drawbars do, or the history behind the organ, then you're probably not a real organist. If you can play in all the keys, but you can't name every chord or progression that you play, then you're probably not a true musician. If you don't transpose, but you're on here asking for chords, THEN YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT A TRUE MUSICIAN!

Real musicians would learn how to do ALL of that.

What's ultimately important is that we give God our best and that we're true when we praise Him. I understand that transposing hinders you, but how many of us do OTHER things that hinder us spiritually.




I have my own amen.

Thank you and I will give you that AMEN...

I struggled getting throught the theory instruction in Gospel music because it was not presented in a standard practiced way.  Many of the ways people learn how to voice chords here are based on left|right configurations.  I bought a book that was suppose to be THE coolest book around for advanced Gospel voicings...  I couldn't read it....  WHY?  Because it was written for people that do not read standard musical notation.   There were lyrics with LH|RH notes and no rhythms or actual musical notations on the page....  This was very hard to decipher.   Figuring a tune out in one key was great....  Moving that to another when it is a completely foreign language was another.   

WHY do I bring this up...  For the same reason that all of you are harping on people for using that "cheater button".  If you want to walk down the path of what "Learning your craft" truly is, you will have to take the foot out of your mouth, place it firmly on the floor and hit the books.  For while we "cheaters" are still learning to get comfortable in the ways of voicings in all keys foreign to us, I challenge those of you that cannot not read music but can play by "rote" or by ear in 12 keys to actually learn to read music in those keys.

I play in twelve keys on sax.  I can play in twelve keys on jazz organ.  Gospel is WAY different.  It uses different muscles memory and sometimes I am not comfortable taking a tune from Db to B major on the fly in front of the congregation after only a short rehearsal.  Am I a decent player?  In my comfort zone, you betcha...  This is a new feel / style.  I won't interrupt the service so my ego can be stroked and I can say I butchered a hymn in all twelve keys.  I have a function to perform, worshipping to do, praise to give and that is my priority.  I cannot do that if I am guessing.

Some day, I hope that I can have the Gospel chops that some of you guys do, likewise I hope you take me up on the challenge and some day we can revisit this and you can say, "Hey, Wolf!  I can read and write standard musical notation"  Music is a constant growing experience.  If you believe you have reached the pinnacle of your craft, it is time to look once again at the mirror that humbles us all.

Wolf

[themidiroom]

I'm actually tired of this discussion. I don't understand why people would even get upset at someone else for using transpose. It's crazy to me. I've heard people say that you're not a musician, if you don't play in all the keys. Why is that important?

I had a guy tell me you're not a real musician unless it is your primary income.  I guess musicianship is in the ears of the beholder.

[keyz28]

i hope i dont start anything crazy.. but i TOTALLY DISAGREE... transposing has actually been a tool that has helped me learn all my keyz... abstractkeyz