Giving my time

[BassMan2000]

I started playing at some Churches for free, but large churches I still charge.
Why is it when you play for free, people just don't appreciate it.

I tell them up front that I can play only one service, that I help alot of small churches
when they have programs and that I feel that is my calling.

People of GOD will treat you like dirt when they can not have their way. I help one church out for their 8:00 morning service and they wanted me to return for their evening service which I advised I had another church to attend.  By the time I got home I had the worst voice mail.

I was called unfaithful and other things. When I charge money I expect people to expect more from me, but when it's free you should be happy with the blessing you receive. It really put me in a BAD mood, it's hard to play when you have anger in you

[BimmerFan99]

I don't let any guilt trips get in my way.  I've learned to be very straightforward about money when it comes to playing for other churches.  You've done that, and they've decided to get upset that you have other priorities.  They'll probably say you're choosing the other church for the money or that you're just trying to get as much money from churches as possible.

We musicians have to support ourselves, too, and playing for a church takes up time that we could otherwise spend working another job.

Don't let them get you down.  You've been professional, even if you're playing for free, and they should appreciate that.

[Quebass86]

Man, I feel you. It is even worse though when it is your own church that expects so much out of you and doesn't pay you. We have certain musicians that are paid and certain ones that are "volunteers". I did a thread on this some time ago about paid vs non-paid musicians. What is really funny is that all of the non-paid musicians at my church have to use their "own equipment". The bass players, guitar players, congo player. Everyone else shows up and the brand new keyboard is already there, the B3 is ready to go and the $5000 drum set is all nice and shiny....We have to get new strings, setups, cleanings, etc...anyway I didn't mean to get into all of that. I play because I have a passion for playing for God and as long as he gives me strength and the ability I am going to do it paid or not. That is a bad feeling though when people do not appreciate you or take you for granted..

[dhagler]

Been there, done that.  I volunteered at my home church for a year and watched my church hire a keyboardist and a drummer; my MOM kept telling me, "We're not hiring a bass player right now" while at the same time posting a flyer specifically asking for one.  Water under the bridge, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.  So bad in fact that I am very careful about my son playing drums there without some clearly defined parameters.  I am blessed and fortunate enough that money is not really an issue, but Que is right that setup, strings, repairs, etc., cost money, not to mention gas back and forth to the church.  And you should certainly value your time spent in rehearsals, home practice, performance, and travel.

I do believe, however, that God will bless you when you do things to His glory.  When we help out a church who doesn't have a musician, or fill in for one who is absent, we are using our God-given talent to help others.  And He will bless us for it.  Don't let that caller get you down, Bassman.  Someone was blessed by what you gave.

[floaded27]

personally, im ok with my setup. yeah, sometimes you dont feel appreciated, but it depends on who u lookin for appreciation from, because some people wont appreciate you whether ur gettin paid or not.

but Que, think of it this way, u got your own gear, so you can do whatever u want with it. i bet if the keyboard player wanted to use that spankin new keyboard to play at some other church or a personal gig, i bet he can forget it. I bought all my gear (basses, amps, everything) with my own money, so if i wanna do somethin with my gear (upgrade, sell it, let someone borrow it *like i'd ever do that*, take it to another place to play, etc) i dont have to ask anybody's permission. Also, if you want something the church has to buy it and thats probably gonna be someone that knows absolutely nothin about basses, or they may give you a budget. But when you want something else, u'll have a tough time. You got a 4 string and want the church to upgrade u to a 5'ver? U gotta explain away. Wanna move to a better amp? Explain why. Wanna mod (new pre-amp or pups)? Forget it! Its not even your bass. Wanna take it when you travel. Ur outta your mind. And just imagine if u got there and a brand spankin new bass was sittin there waiting for you.... and it felt like crap in your hands?

What i do is money that i get for playing, im gonna dedicated it to my bass stuff. I was given something for the choir anniversary back in september, and something for playing in the concert last week (which i didnt know i was getting until they gave it to me), and that combined is going to my Aguilar pre-amp for my Schecter.

[carlmack7183]

You are right, things can get pretty ugly when people want more and more out of you. I really don't let that bother me b/c I play bass for myself and God. That's it. He gives me the strength to go out and work to get my equipment, support my family, and be in good health; therefore as long as I am giving thanks to the Lord i honestly could care less is people get upset b/c I have to leave for other obligations. It sounds sort of mean, but in south Louisiana there are very few bass players, so those of us who play are stretched to the max. Pray on it bro, and just put it in his hands

[gambit23435]

You are right, things can get pretty ugly when people want more and more out of you. I really don't let that bother me b/c I play bass for myself and God. That's it. He gives me the strength to go out and work to get my equipment, support my family, and be in good health; therefore as long as I am giving thanks to the Lord i honestly could care less is people get upset b/c I have to leave for other obligations. It sounds sort of mean, but in south Louisiana there are very few bass players, so those of us who play are stretched to the max. Pray on it bro, and just put it in his hands

+1
If you are playing for God, what man says and feel is of no consequence. They should be there to worship God not the music.

[LowBass]

I started back playing bass after a 30+ years away from music period. Because of money and the message my mother was getting from God to relay to me. Weird as a kid you sometimes don't get it but as we grow older,wiser and muture.
Then comes that light bulb moment. I started playing ,singing and fill in on drum sometimes at 6 years olds.
Short story,at around 15 or so,a man contacted my mother about me playing on a few songs for money.
But,the music was not Gospel,my mother said NO. Her son will only play Gospel. In the 70's, 600 buck per song about 2 minutes long was good money.
My heart dropped when she said no to him.That was the last time,I've played any instrument,until about 2 years ago.
My mother passed away and the kids she help find music at East Trigg got the message but I did'nt.
Later that ,the Lord came to me and said play for me again and showed me my Church Home.

I went on his directions and found the church,they only had a drummer.But the Lord was working over-time.
He guided me to the right store to find my bass and amps Cheap.I got a fender amp 100 rumble series and a 4 string bass also a fender squire for 250 buck.
I said I'm getting blessed and have not done anything yet.

I started to play for my Church for free,I picked all of our songs got the words for Free.
About a year passed,we got a organ player never heard him play or anything.He dates the Pastor daughter.

They offer and pays him,but not me. He fumbles on simple song,like pass me not,glory glory then he don't change chords and give excuses to not pratice.
But get all of the praise and thanks. I still go and play but my heart just not in it like it once was.
My wife on me to leave and I can do better. But I stay because God told me to.
I know the devil is working some underhand tactics here. But he won't win this time.
So I feel you

[Quebass86]

personally, im ok with my setup. yeah, sometimes you dont feel appreciated, but it depends on who u lookin for appreciation from, because some people wont appreciate you whether ur gettin paid or not.

but Que, think of it this way, u got your own gear, so you can do whatever u want with it. i bet if the keyboard player wanted to use that spankin new keyboard to play at some other church or a personal gig, i bet he can forget it. I bought all my gear (basses, amps, everything) with my own money, so if i wanna do somethin with my gear (upgrade, sell it, let someone borrow it *like i'd ever do that*, take it to another place to play, etc) i dont have to ask anybody's permission. Also, if you want something the church has to buy it and thats probably gonna be someone that knows absolutely nothin about basses, or they may give you a budget. But when you want something else, u'll have a tough time. You got a 4 string and want the church to upgrade u to a 5'ver? U gotta explain away. Wanna move to a better amp? Explain why. Wanna mod (new pre-amp or pups)? Forget it! Its not even your bass. Wanna take it when you travel. Ur outta your mind. And just imagine if u got there and a brand spankin new bass was sittin there waiting for you.... and it felt like crap in your hands?

What i do is money that i get for playing, im gonna dedicated it to my bass stuff. I was given something for the choir anniversary back in september, and something for playing in the concert last week (which i didnt know i was getting until they gave it to me), and that combined is going to my Aguilar pre-amp for my Schecter.

Oh trust me, I am past that. What hurt was just that they never said why some musicians were paid and some were not. I never asked for anything but it does hurt when my church (4000 members) pays other musicians when they come and fill in for somebody. Also, when I go and play at some churches who's membership is 200 and they hand me an envelope everytime for $100 just for playing or helping out my friend who is the MOM at his dad's church. They need a new church and many other things because the one they are in is very old but then your home church wants you at everything but won't even say here is $75 to get you a set up done. Actually I enjoy being a volunteer because that is what I do, "volunteer". The other part that gets me is that if the paid musicians don't have to play for some reason they don't come to church. I am a tithing member active in many other ministries besides music, but it has allowed me to be free to play with my other group on some sundays when we play a the House of Blues Gospel Brunch and the Lord had definately blessed the group to make a few dollars which will allow us to travel next year out of state for a few events. As it was stated earlier, I do it because I love playing for God and His Glory. Appreciation as they say sometimes means more when it is at least the thought...

[jeremyr]

They offer and pays him,but not me. [/b] He fumbles on simple song,like pass me not,glory glory then he don't change chords and give excuses to not pratice.
But get all of the praise and thanks. I still go and play but my heart just not in it like it once was.
My wife on me to leave and I can do better. But I stay because God told me to.
I know the devil is working some underhand tactics here. But he won't win this time.
So I feel you

I know exactly how you feel man.  Exactly how you feel.!!

[Quebass86]

I started back playing bass after a 30+ years away from music period. Because of money and the message my mother was getting from God to relay to me. Weird as a kid you sometimes don't get it but as we grow older,wiser and muture.
Then comes that light bulb moment. I started playing ,singing and fill in on drum sometimes at 6 years olds.
Short story,at around 15 or so,a man contacted my mother about me playing on a few songs for money.
But,the music was not Gospel,my mother said NO. Her son will only play Gospel. In the 70's, 600 buck per song about 2 minutes long was good money.
My heart dropped when she said no to him.That was the last time,I've played any instrument,until about 2 years ago.
My mother passed away and the kids she help find music at East Trigg got the message but I did'nt.
Later that ,the Lord came to me and said play for me again and showed me my Church Home.

I went on his directions and found the church,they only had a drummer.But the Lord was working over-time.
He guided me to the right store to find my bass and amps Cheap.I got a fender amp 100 rumble series and a 4 string bass also a fender squire for 250 buck.
I said I'm getting blessed and have not done anything yet.

I started to play for my Church for free,I picked all of our songs got the words for Free.
About a year passed,we got a organ player never heard him play or anything.He dates the Pastor daughter.

They offer and pays him,but not me. He fumbles on simple song,like pass me not,glory glory then he don't change chords and give excuses to not pratice.
But get all of the praise and thanks. I still go and play but my heart just not in it like it once was.
My wife on me to leave and I can do better. But I stay because God told me to.
I know the devil is working some underhand tactics here. But he won't win this time.
So I feel you

Man, I hear ya....I know we all have different situations we are in with our churches but the wonderful thing is that if GOD is pleased with our playing and praise that is all that matters. That is why I continue to ask questions on this forum for guidance and instructions because there is so much knowledge to be recieved from all of you and believe me I soak it "all" up. Every month someone tells me that I am getting better and better especially the musicians I play with. It is funny, they used to tell me at the beginning of practices how a bassline goes for a particular song, now we just play unless I ask them. Sometimes I will even correct them on a song because I have studied it so much. I began to hear the little accents and things in songs that they would just brush over. Everyday I am more and more encouraged. BassMan2000, stay the course, God is pleased with your sacrifice and giving of yourself. Our reward is not of man but of God. I know how you feel because we are human and like to be appreciated. God has blessed you with a gift, so continue to use it for His Glory.

[jmain]

I hear you guys.  I've struggled a bit over folks coming in for musicals getting paid, and the piano and organist getting paid while I don't.  It used to make me a little twitchy, but I always tried to just let it go.  I'm not saying folks shouldn't get paid, please understand that.  We all have our own way of doing this. 

I agree with what's been said about having more freedom if I'm responsible for my own gear.  I would probably have this stuff either way, but I know the Lord has blessed me with a full-time job and an outlet to praise Him.  I think that's the way He's worked it for me - at least for now.

We're moving and will be looking for a new church home.  Last time, we looked for a place to worship and fellowship, then the music fell into place.  We'll do that again this time.  And if they happen to pay the players, then I'll have to decide then what the Lord wants me to do.  If He wants to bless me with some extra cash, then I could use it to pay some bills. 

[malthumb]

There's a couple ways to look at this.  At any church I've ever played, vocalists do not get paid.  Period.  Hired musicians do, but vocalists have to volunteer their time.

For the record, the way I approach things, I do not charge my own church to play.  On the other hand, I play the services I choose to play and don't play the services I don't normally attend, except on special ocassions.  In the past, I played for churches I did not belong to for free.  When they started taking advantage of my time I sat down and set up arrangements with them.  In one case it was "y'all buy my strings", in another case I worked out the fee arrangements up front, then usually put it back in the collection plate.  All was fine until one time I didn't put it in the collection plate.  You would've thought I had pinched the first lady  .

I've been asked to play the 11:00 service at another church in 2008 (I attend and play at my church's 8:30 service).  We have pre-negotiated terms.  I run the music ministry for our 8:30 service and have hired a keyboard player.  His church is the church asking me to play at 11:00 and he's part of the music ministry leadership, so now we've pretty much hired each other on the same terms.

The most irritating thing that has happened to me lately was that our Property Management team rented the church out for a promoter to bring in an artist she represents.  The Property Management director mentioned to her that we had a contemporary worship choir in the 8:30 service, so I spoke with the lady and told her I'd ask the group if they wanted to open for the vocalist.  As it turned out, several of my members, including my keyboard player, were going to be out of town over the Thanksgiving holiday.  She says she did not get the voice mail I left her explaining that.  Okay, I'm fine with that.  But even after that she CHOSE not to take no for an answer.  At the end of the day she made a remark to me about "doing bad business".  'Scuse me!?!?!........You would be paying the opening act HOW MUCH?  Nothing?.......And I agreed to provide a group when?.......Oh, you ASSUMED?  So, at what point were WE doing business?

Peace,

James

[Quebass86]

personally, im ok with my setup. yeah, sometimes you dont feel appreciated, but it depends on who u lookin for appreciation from, because some people wont appreciate you whether ur gettin paid or not.

but Que, think of it this way, u got your own gear, so you can do whatever u want with it. i bet if the keyboard player wanted to use that spankin new keyboard to play at some other church or a personal gig, i bet he can forget it. I bought all my gear (basses, amps, everything) with my own money, so if i wanna do somethin with my gear (upgrade, sell it, let someone borrow it *like i'd ever do that*, take it to another place to play, etc) i dont have to ask anybody's permission. Also, if you want something the church has to buy it and thats probably gonna be someone that knows absolutely nothin about basses, or they may give you a budget. But when you want something else, u'll have a tough time. You got a 4 string and want the church to upgrade u to a 5'ver? U gotta explain away. Wanna move to a better amp? Explain why. Wanna mod (new pre-amp or pups)? Forget it! Its not even your bass. Wanna take it when you travel. Ur outta your mind. And just imagine if u got there and a brand spankin new bass was sittin there waiting for you.... and it felt like crap in your hands?

What i do is money that i get for playing, im gonna dedicated it to my bass stuff. I was given something for the choir anniversary back in september, and something for playing in the concert last week (which i didnt know i was getting until they gave it to me), and that combined is going to my Aguilar pre-amp for my Schecter.

I feel ya, again my thing is that is just nice to be appreciated every now and then. I definately don't need that money because the Lord has blessed me and my spouse with good financial careers and we definately try to be good stuarts with what he has blessed us with. These small churches make you feel so welcomed and appreciated and go out of their way. They actually got affended when I did not want to take the money. I love playing with them...they told me that if I would not take it I would blocking "their" blessings. So I kindly took it and then gave it back to them for their building fund for a new church. For me though, I bought all of my equipment to play for chuch. When I first started playing bass it was just for fun and to play some old Larry Graham and Louis Johnson songs at home. At that time I had a 4 string and B15 grate amp which was all I needed for home. Then I was asked to play at church and things changed.....There was no way I could play Brighter Day with a 4 string correctly so I went and bought my Ibanez SR series and more equipment because the church didn't have a bass amp and putting a mic up against the B15 crate practice amp just wasn't cutting it.....I don't play outside of church/gospel settings...and the other groups I play with are a result of playing at church so for me I would still be plucking my ESP 4 string....but out of it I have been truly blessed in so many ways and one of them has been to be directed to this website to be introduced to the LGM family.....So I am truly blessed!!!

[BimmerFan99]

Man, I feel you. It is even worse though when it is your own church that expects so much out of you and doesn't pay you. We have certain musicians that are paid and certain ones that are "volunteers". I did a thread on this some time ago about paid vs non-paid musicians. What is really funny is that all of the non-paid musicians at my church have to use their "own equipment". The bass players, guitar players, congo player. Everyone else shows up and the brand new keyboard is already there, the B3 is ready to go and the $5000 drum set is all nice and shiny....We have to get new strings, setups, cleanings, etc...anyway I didn't mean to get into all of that. I play because I have a passion for playing for God and as long as he gives me strength and the ability I am going to do it paid or not. That is a bad feeling though when people do not appreciate you or take you for granted..

+2  My current church pays a pair of musicians that have been with the church for years.  Three years ago, some friends and I formed a band that has been playing there.  We've never been paid for playing at this church, and, though we don't play every week they love it when we play.  But, when we ask for some funds to get new equipment and maintain our own equipment, they start actin' funny.

Example: I asked the music director for money to buy a new drum set, and she said, "Well, our drummer only plays once a month when you ask him to come anyway."  I told her that if we had new equipment so our drummer didn't have to haul his cymbals and stands down here, then maybe it'd be easier for me to ask him to come down more often!  In addition, he should be compensated for gas because his drive is at least 30 minutes one way!!

We've never asked for pay, but our home church is the MOST demanding and where we spend most of our energy.  I get money into my pocket from other churches and they're much less demanding.  I keep trying to tell the powers that be that what they invest into the music is what they're going to get out of it.  So far, they have not invested much of anything and then wonder why we don't play every week.

[Main5playah]

In all that has been shared one thing has been left out, and that thing is the realization that everyone that is in the "Church" does not necessarily have the "Church" or "Christ" in them. I have experienced all that has been shared in this thread on both sides of the fence the paid side and the free side. I have resolved going forward to utilize the talent "God" has bestowed upon me without pay for now on. I prefer this because I own all my gear and the last thing I want is to have "Church Folk" telling me what I can and can't do on Sunday morning or any other day I minister. I have a boss at work all doing the week, on Sunday the only Boss I want to answer to is God. I have been disrespected by church folk (Not Christians) and made to feel so bad I almost stopped my ministry, but by the grace of God I kept on and he led me to a place of worship where I was able to minister freely and was appreciated. Even though the ultimate purpose is to praise our savior its nice to know that your contribution is appreciated and acknowledged.

[Quebass86]

In all that has been shared one thing has been left out, and that thing is the realization that everyone that is in the "Church" does not necessarily have the "Church" or "Christ" in them. I have experienced all that has been shared in this thread on both sides of the fence the paid side and the free side. I have resolved going forward to utilize the talent "God" has bestowed upon me without pay for now on. I prefer this because I own all my gear and the last thing I want is to have "Church Folk" telling me what I can and can't do on Sunday morning or any other day I minister. I have a boss at work all doing the week, on Sunday the only Boss I want to answer to is God. I have been disrespected by church folk (Not Christians) and made to feel so bad I almost stopped my ministry, but by the grace of God I kept on and he led me to a place of worship where I was able to minister freely and was appreciated. Even though the ultimate purpose is to praise our savior its nice to know that your contribution is appreciated and acknowledged.

Amen!

[Ken Felder]

When i started playing all i wanted to do is learn every thing that i could on the bass. but i also had to learn the buisness side to.
many times people will aske me to play and offer me money. i do have a starting price that i give every body. i  play for my home church for free'
and at times i feel that they expect mor from me than the churches that  pay me. some churches don't appreciate there muscian until some other chuch shows intrest. thats when they want to speak to ypu and ask you what can they do for you. and you think to your self it took all of this for you to relize how important  i am to the band. its not about the money at all. but people dont relize how much it cost to play  bass guitar. our stings are the most expensive. in some cases some of us had to get a van or suv so we can carry ou equitment around. 

[momuzik]

It's not just a guitar thing. I'm a keyboardist who doesn't get paid. I lug my keyboard back and forth twice a week. The church bought drums and a bass (w/ no bass player), but it's all good. What I do - I do for the glory of God.

Just keep playing, God can reward you better than the church.

[Torch7]

It's interesting hearing all of you guys experiences.  None of the musicians at my Church get paid.  The Sr. Pastor is also my spiritual father, and I picked up the bass when the previous bass player left, and took the churches equipment with him.  I knew my Father loved the Bass, and would play if he could, so I stepped in.  I purchased my own equipment and the 9.  I guess I never even thought about being paid because its not an issue, due to me being connected to my Father. 

I agree with Main5 about the Church folks vs. The Christians, and financial issues are not only relegated to the musicians, I know of many preachers who have preached 5 day revivals and not been paid, and they don't have an issue with it, because they know their reward is in Heaven.

Wanna hear a wild story, We have a Preacher who is in covenant with our Church in Africa, who was kidnapped and made to preach.  He was only allowed out of his confined quarters, to Preach, and then thrown back into a tiny room, with rats, and hardly any food.  God finally allowed this man of God to escape, but he talks openly about since that experience the capacity that God uses him in has increased.

So I guess if you put things in perspective, not getting paid is not all that bad, huh?