preacher fights back

[LaylaMonroe]

I think that in the interest of the church, submitting the documents would be the easiest way.  Along with that, they can challenge the process and whether or not it is a fair request.  In other words, let the world know that you are on the up and up, AND that you oppose the way the investigation was handled.  I think it lends more credibility that way.

Although I, personally, wouldn't give in to that kind of bullying, you DO raise a very good point, and it probably does lend more credibility that way.

[Vangelist]

I think that in the interest of the church, submitting the documents would be the easiest way.  Along with that, they can challenge the process and whether or not it is a fair request.  In other words, let the world know that you are on the up and up, AND that you oppose the way the investigation was handled.  I think it lends more credibility that way.

I definitely agree with you Nessa. Maybe I missed something, but what's the difference between complying now or waiting for a subpeona to comply?

[jlc4703]

The difference in complying and waiting for a subpoena - due process. First off, it has not been established by law that a Senator or Congressman has ANY legal right to demand this documentation.

It is like if a police officer came to my home and wanted to search inside, with no warrant. I am a law-abiding citizen, I don't think there would be anything illegal found in my home. I would still refuse (depending on circumstance - if I was told that a neighbor saw someone breaking in to my home while I was out - it would be reasonable to have the police check it out), The law says - no warrant - I do not have to allow the search.  Now - the police do have the right to have an officer stay outside so that I cannot dispose of evidence, and they can radio in for a warrant.  If a judge or magistrate grants the warrant, legally I must permit the search.


In the position of any of these ministries, I would at the very least refuse the request until my own legal counsel gave advice on the legality of the request. I tend to believe that the IRS has the professionals, the previous experience, and the ability to detect fraud (at least on any fairly large scale), I would also anticipate that the IRS will, in fact, audit at least some of the ministries involved (if for no other reason than to avoid any appearance that they are not doing their job.) If you do not stand up for your rights, they are automatically given up - they may well get stomped on even if you do stand up.

I'm sorry, but being a Senator or Congressman does not automatically give one the experience and in depth knowledge of the US Tax code to audio someone's return - the code is so complex that even two IRS agents often disagree about what parts of it mean.

Of course, every one of these ministries may be absolutely totally in accord with all of the US law - and still not be handling things in the manner that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit approve. But that question is not likely to be answered until the day that every knee bows, and it most certainly is not within the authority of the US Congress.

[LaylaMonroe]

I think it's time for the benediction... 

JLC, no one could've said it better.  I totally agree.  And if I might add, the Senator has as much right or authority to demand this information as I do: NONE.

Very well said, JLC, very well said.

[lilmanofgod]

I'd like to comment on somethin dr. dollar said in an interview...i've been following this case since it started...if the information is submitted there is a CHANCE that it could be released to the public...which means partners TRUSTED information given to the church can be a free for all for the public...with a subpoena there will be guidelines as to what they can have AND the info will be kept PRIVATE and won't be shared with the public to a certain extent...which is why he is waiting on a subpoena. I can post his interview on Larry King if you want...just to clarify his position

[jdholliday]

I think that in the interest of the church, submitting the documents would be the easiest way.  Along with that, they can challenge the process and whether or not it is a fair request.  In other words, let the world know that you are on the up and up, AND that you oppose the way the investigation was handled.  I think it lends more credibility that way.

If they follow the law which they are doing in our(church) society we are always guilty to proven innocent.

[Furious Styles]

The problem that I have with most of the responses is that most aren't aware of the damage that the private sector does to working class citizens everyday. Respect for christian leadership is one thing but this issue isn't about someone taking a stand. It's about stalling for time. Nixon burned most of his tapes so we still don't know the full extent of his real dirt. I know how to lie on my taxes like everyone else. If you guys think for one moment these "ministries" aren't trying to stall for time to appear compliant then ignorance is really bliss... This is the US government we are talking about here. Laws to people in high places mean nothing when there is an agenda to accomplish.

Most of us would be suprised at the slime that high ranking officals have gotten away with. This is high time for GOD's true church because this investigation is going to set a precedent for all of the other phonies that will rise up after them. Deception by peace is the M.O. of the spirit of the anti-christ.... Narrow is the way of salvation. Broad is the way of destruction. Corporate greed and corporate fraud are investigated everyday but the money they swindled from the working class is used for their defense. Reformation rarely happens. Most of feeble attempts are done at a snells pace. Can't we not see the same similarities. I have a broken heart for those who still can't see the devil's work in this issue...

Please understand that if there was nothing to hide then compliance would occur immediately. If things were done as it should've been then the rebuttal of follow the law wouldn't drop from Creflo's mouth. Intelligence is not stalling. Stalling is lying.... When the roman soilders came for Jesus he went then. He didn't ask them to come back the next day... Food for thought... By peace does the anti christ destroy.. The wolf is in disguise... OPEN your eyes people of God.... The sinners have!!!! Why can't we?

[jlewis]

After reading all the comments,  I think I agree with Nessa the most.  I would comply fully and immediately ( the first time).

This would let everyone know that our ministry was on the up and up.  At the same time, I would push for  the mechanism on how each ministry was targeted  for the senate investigation, and if there was no "justifiable cause", I would have my legal counsel  push for  recovery of my expenses and probably  have the  senate investigation  sued for fraud.


But honestly, I don't have enough legal expertise to determine  what a senate investigation committee has the RIGHTS to do. I mean watergate, Iran/Contra, Baseball steroids,   those committees had to have had some type of legal backing didn't they?

Jlewis

[Furious Styles]

Yes Jlewis they do. The government can investigate who ever they want... Especially if you take government funds or use government programs to run your business.... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that.... Al Sharpton is being investigated to on some of the same issues.. You get in bed with the government you'll pay... You betta ask somebody who knows....

[jdholliday]

After reading all the comments,  I think I agree with Nessa the most.  I would comply fully and immediately ( the first time).

This would let everyone know that our ministry was on the up and up.  At the same time, I would push for  the mechanism on how each ministry was targeted  for the senate investigation, and if there was no "justifiable cause", I would have my legal counsel  push for  recovery of my expenses and probably  have the  senate investigation  sued for fraud.


But honestly, I don't have enough legal expertise to determine  what a senate investigation committee has the RIGHTS to do. I mean watergate, Iran/Contra, Baseball steroids,   those committees had to have had some type of legal backing didn't they?

Jlewis

When we comply to something that maybe illegal, we can set a dangerous pattern that can or will eventually trickle down not to just the so-called mega ministries but also to the storefront, which by the response of some are the only ones preaching holiness

[Steelpulz]

The biggest problem is that the Senator is member (maybe chair) of the Finance Committee. HOWEVER, the Finance Committee is NOT asking the churches for their records. The Senator is doing it on his own and not as part of the investigative function of the Committee.

That's a good reason for Pastor Dollar and the others not to comply with the Senator's informal request.