For those who have wondered...

[Cherri]

It was a mistake.  There is no such thing as 13/6.  For the first part of the vid he was playing in 10.  The second part he was playing in 15. 

I concur!

In the SSV2 Drum Clinic, Justin Brown demonstrates a "5 over 4" which is a phrase of 5 played over a count of 4. Can a phrase of 13 be played on top of a count of 6?

God bless

Considering the fact, you didn't respond to the questions left within that topic proceeding thereafter. I think it was fair game to ask this question. It took several of us viligantes for a loop after you stated the "13/6 Time Signature." 

Indeed.  We'll discuss the time signature stuff in another thread. 

Q is nice.  The vocals on the clip....

PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE. Oh the banality, don't make me vomit. When did it start to matter in the DRUMMER's Forum in regards to getting off the topic...

To be honest (allthough its off topic) im still wondering about that time signature in tony roysters clip you posted. he said 13 over 6???
could you or anybody else " ´splain" (in the words of bernard purdie) it to me?


I love that clip man!
Thanx for posting it!

The topic's name was "For those who have wondered..." Apparently you (WE) were wondering.

[fLaT-fIfTh]

Please do not misquote me in an attempt to make a point. I would not refer to a time sig in that manner... reread my post.

God bless

[drummerforgod]

Dear flat-fIfTh!

Im writing you now in public to tell you that it was not my aim to hijack your thread!
I thought that the title of your NEW started topic was a chance for me to get an explanation.
I apologize for raising up any kind of tension in this topic.

For me it just does not make sense to say 13 over 6 simply because i do not understand how it should work.
That was the reason for stepping in here.
I do not want to start over that topic again I only want to say and ask wether it would be possible that someone could write me a PM to teach me the rules of putting one number over another in a musical context

It was not primarily about the DVD allthough i would love to own one!
I also want to thank you for the job you do! It helps not only american gospeldrummers but also gospeldrummers like me over here in germany ( i hope i did not offended anybody by saying im a gospeldrummer! ) who are not able to live in a direct surrounding to learn and soak up that kind of feel or attitude toward music.

I really love gospel music!
Not because its hip or anything ( its absolutely not over here lol cuz people think "oh happy day" sung by 35 housewomen above their mid 45s is gospel loooooool ) but because its a good, powerful, encouraging message fitted into great music which also focusses on the music and not only on the lyrics. You might call me a freak but im white and love and feel the music!!!! Im a JesusFreak then....
I grew up with "normal" P&W and it was just hard to stay focussed when you werent allowed to let loose during worship because i also wanted to share my gift! Sometimes i think about the levite and his purpose. Sometimes a taxi driver comes to my mind. A so called taxidriver who brings the people who seek and love good in front of the throne of god. (i hope you still can follow me )
But to be honest i dont want to drive a yellow cab but rather driving a car which fits as good as possible to the ambiente, atmosphere....
So to stay in that picture: I want to drive a hot new mercedes S-class lol.
And gospel music helps me to do that!!!!!!
So im really passionate about that!
So "creativityfountains" like Gospelchops really helped me to really express myself musically and not only conserning gospelmusic.
Im 20 years now and god has blessed me richly. I own my own studio! I play more than enough gigs. I am the youngest druminstructor at a musicschool in my city ( about 650000 habitants) and god is continuing to make a way for me!
I want to encourage all the musicians to not loose focus but to seek first the kingdom!
Im young but i can tell from my short experience: To seek first the kingdom defnitely pays off better than anything else.
So i really want to say thank you flat-fifTh for producing that kind of stuff and also to all the people here posting clips and more importantly knowledge so that i can soak in all that stuff!


Im sorry for going off topic again but i started to open up a bit and couldnt stop!


God Bless yall

[j_kay]

I want to drive a hot new mercedes S-class

I love those, especially the S65 AMG (a hand-built 604-horsepower bi-turbo V-12 engine).  That's my dream car. 

[fLaT-fIfTh]

Dear flat-fIfTh!

Im writing you now in public to tell you that it was not my aim to hijack your thread!
I thought that the title of your NEW started topic was a chance for me to get an explanation.
I apologize for raising up any kind of tension in this topic.

For me it just does not make sense to say 13 over 6 simply because i do not understand how it should work.
That was the reason for stepping in here.
I do not want to start over that topic again I only want to say and ask wether it would be possible that someone could write me a PM to teach me the rules of putting one number over another in a musical context

It was not primarily about the DVD allthough i would love to own one!
I also want to thank you for the job you do! It helps not only american gospeldrummers but also gospeldrummers like me over here in germany ( i hope i did not offended anybody by saying im a gospeldrummer! ) who are not able to live in a direct surrounding to learn and soak up that kind of feel or attitude toward music.

I really love gospel music!
Not because its hip or anything ( its absolutely not over here lol cuz people think "oh happy day" sung by 35 housewomen above their mid 45s is gospel loooooool ) but because its a good, powerful, encouraging message fitted into great music which also focusses on the music and not only on the lyrics. You might call me a freak but im white and love and feel the music!!!! Im a JesusFreak then....
I grew up with "normal" P&W and it was just hard to stay focussed when you werent allowed to let loose during worship because i also wanted to share my gift! Sometimes i think about the levite and his purpose. Sometimes a taxi driver comes to my mind. A so called taxidriver who brings the people who seek and love good in front of the throne of god. (i hope you still can follow me )
But to be honest i dont want to drive a yellow cab but rather driving a car which fits as good as possible to the ambiente, atmosphere....
So to stay in that picture: I want to drive a hot new mercedes S-class lol.
And gospel music helps me to do that!!!!!!
So im really passionate about that!
So "creativityfountains" like Gospelchops really helped me to really express myself musically and not only conserning gospelmusic.
Im 20 years now and god has blessed me richly. I own my own studio! I play more than enough gigs. I am the youngest druminstructor at a musicschool in my city ( about 650000 habitants) and god is continuing to make a way for me!
I want to encourage all the musicians to not loose focus but to seek first the kingdom!
Im young but i can tell from my short experience: To seek first the kingdom defnitely pays off better than anything else.
So i really want to say thank you flat-fifTh for producing that kind of stuff and also to all the people here posting clips and more importantly knowledge so that i can soak in all that stuff!


Im sorry for going off topic again but i started to open up a bit and couldnt stop!


God Bless yall

Hey Jesusfreak!!! Check this out...

First of all, I am not offended. This is an anonymous messageboard and I am a registered member just like you. I am, however, impressed by your quest for knowledge. I always dig the cats that want to delve deeper than the surface to make new discoveries in music and in ministry. I must say though... I am quite shocked that some of the LGM "viligantes" were not quick to tackle this topic. I am aware of some of the great talent around here.

Be that as it may, drummerforgod, put on your hazmat suit and let's do this, my friend. **DISCLAIMER** I am not a musical scholar and I have no degrees in the field of music. Every word I type should be researched and verified by your own due diligence.

With that said, when I consider this topic, the term polyrhythm comes to mind. Research the term and see if it fits. The concept of one rhythm "on top" of another is very valid. You almost have to train your brain to think two different things at one time. Thus, we can establish a count on the kick drum of y while playing "on top" of it in a count of x. This concept can be transcribed.
 I personally became familiar with this concept a couple years ago after Eric Moore's, now infamous, "3 over 2" lesson. After posting that clip, I received numerous emails and phone calls from instructors at Musician's Institute and Berklee School of Music. Consequently, we learned that the linear pattern that was demonstrated was not technically "3 over 2." You see, the phrase x over y refers to a polyrhythm. In actuality, the pattern that was demonstrated in the lesson displays 3 notes on the snare that precede 2 notes on the kick. Therefore the notes are NOT "on top" of the kick... you dig?

Now back to "13 over 6." This is where the science of music is applied. This link explains the concept better than I ever could:

http://members.tripod.com/f.unkster/polyrhythm.html

It's like making a sandwich with a slice of wheat bread on top and white bread on bottom... two contrasting counts; one on top or "over" the other.
Someone help me if I'm off base and help drive this home so that we can all learn gospel music.

drummerforgod, I commend you on your stand for GOD and your quest for musical enhancement. I am extremely proud that we were able to touch your life in some way. I pray that you will take your gift and share it with someone else. You win at life, my friend! You get it. You understand that ministry is the key. We have played a part in sparking a conversation about gospel music among many that hadn't even considered it previously. Therein lies the opportunity for ministry. You see? How can we discuss gospel music without discussing the gospel?

drummerforgod, send me a pm with your mailing address...

God bless

***This post has been edited for clarification. In order to be classified as a polyrhythm, the top phrase should be completed in one measure.***

[DuvalsLilJohnLumpkin]

To be honest (allthough its off topic) im still wondering about that time signature in tony roysters clip you posted. he said 13 over 6???
could you or anybody else " ´splain" (in the words of bernard purdie) it to me?


I love that clip man!
Thanx for posting it!

This will explain meters to you period.

http://www.8notes.com/school/theory/simple_and_compound_meter.asp

[JFunky]

[fLaT-fIfTh]

drummerforgod, here is a helpful link:

http://www.amazon.com/Polyrhythms-Musicians-Guide-Peter-Magadini/dp/0634032836

Book Description
Peter Magadini's Polyrhythms is acclaimed the world over and has been hailed by Modern Drummer magazine as "by far the best book on the subject." Written for instrumentalists and vocalists alike, this book/CD pack contains excellent solos and exercises that feature polyrhythmic concepts. Topics covered include: 6 over 4, 5 over 4, 7 over 4, 3 over 4, 11 over 4, and other rhythmic ratios; combining various polyrhythms; polyrhythmic time signatures; and much more. The CD includes demos of the exercises. To purchase Peter Magadini's stand-alone CD Polyrhythm (different from the CD that accompanies this book), you can visit www.petermagadini.com.

God bless

[Cherri]

Please do not misquote me in an attempt to make a point. I would not refer to a time sig in that manner... reread my post.

God bless

Reread and quoted... I apologize, you did not state 13/6 Time signature.

Tony's explanation of the second groove was "13 over 6" which is still 6. *ducks LGM bullets*

God bless

Now back to "13 over 6." If we establish a time sig of 6/8(not to be confused with "6 over 8") we can hold down the count of 6 with our kick. Now let's place a phrase of 13 eighth notes on our snare. Mathematically, our top phrase should span two measures plus one eighth note. Correct?

Now 13 and 6 have a number in common... it's 78. So, if these two eighth note phrases begin on the 1, mathematically speaking, they should meet up again for a big fat sloppy kiss on the 1 at 78, or the start of the 14 bar since our count is 6. It's like making a sandwich with a slice of wheat bread on top and white bread on bottom... two contrasting counts; one on top or "over" the other.
Someone help me if I'm off base and help drive this home so that we can all learn gospel music. God bless

Adding on… with a headache. Tony much respect!

Polyrhythm involves two numbers:

13 over 6 (13 x 6 = 78 beats) in a 6/8 (Compound Time Signature) an 8th note pulse…

Group (written) the notes into of 6 small beat each… black= 6 eighths note pulse  red= produces the 13 over 6

12345678910111213 22345678910111213 3245678910111213 423456789101213 52345678910111213 62345678910111213

Note the counting patterning in red. Neither straight up nor down (numerically), it's jagged oscillation. But still, each member of the group of 13 comes only once, and 13 is the rhythm that goes over the other.





There are two mathematical approaches for solving polyrhythm. Also classified as mixed meters. Polyrhythm involving over nine beats, mentally let go of small divisions feel the bar as three. Dotted notes can be written in these cases to lessen the confusion, if there's any such. LOL!

1. Subdivide each beat in the bar into the number of subdivisions that are going "over" them. and then group the subdivision into units of the second number, the one that is being "overed.

6/8 Time Sign. 13 over 6 (second number)

The bar is divided in to 6 eighths note pulse, by way of the Time Sign.- here we are performing two equal pulses in the same period. The polyrhythm is 13 beats over six 8ths notes. Accomplished by first subdividing each 8th notes of the bar by 13. Then group those subdivisions into units of 6. 

2. Multiply the two numbers to the Lowest Common Multiple. Divide the bar into LCM.. and then group the divisions into units of the two numbers.
 
13 over 6
13 x 6 = 78   6/78= 13

[j_kay]

[/end thread]

Thanks, Cherri.  Respect.   

[fLaT-fIfTh]

Reread and quoted... I apologize, you did not state 13/6 Time signature.



Adding on… with a headache. Tony much respect!

Polyrhythm involves two numbers:

13 over 6 (13 x 6 = 78 beats) in a 6/8 (Compound Time Signature) an 8th note pulse…

Group (written) the notes into of 6 small beat each… black= 6 eighths note pulse  red= produces the 13 over 6

12345678910111213 22345678910111213 3245678910111213 423456789101213 52345678910111213 62345678910111213

Note the counting patterning in red. Neither straight up nor down (numerically), it's jagged oscillation. But still, each member of the group of 13 comes only once, and 13 is the rhythm that goes over the other.





There are two mathematical approaches for solving polyrhythm. Also classified as mixed meters. Polyrhythm involving over nine beats, mentally let go of small divisions feel the bar as three. Dotted notes can be written in these cases to lessen the confusion, if there's any such. LOL!

1. Subdivide each beat in the bar into the number of subdivisions that are going "over" them. and then group the subdivision into units of the second number, the one that is being "overed.

6/8 Time Sign. 13 over 6 (second number)

The bar is divided in to 6 eighths note pulse, by way of the Time Sign.- here we are performing two equal pulses in the same period. The polyrhythm is 13 beats over six 8ths notes. Accomplished by first subdividing each 8th notes of the bar by 13. Then group those subdivisions into units of 6. 

2. Multiply the two numbers to the Lowest Common Multiple. Divide the bar into LCM.. and then group the divisions into units of the two numbers.
 
13 over 6
13 x 6 = 78   6/78= 13

Whew!!! That was dope... much respect! GAME OVER!

[JFunky]

Reread and quoted... I apologize, you did not state 13/6 Time signature.



Adding on… with a headache. Tony much respect!

Polyrhythm involves two numbers:

13 over 6 (13 x 6 = 78 beats) in a 6/8 (Compound Time Signature) an 8th note pulse…

Group (written) the notes into of 6 small beat each… black= 6 eighths note pulse  red= produces the 13 over 6

12345678910111213 22345678910111213 3245678910111213 423456789101213 52345678910111213 62345678910111213

Note the counting patterning in red. Neither straight up nor down (numerically), it's jagged oscillation. But still, each member of the group of 13 comes only once, and 13 is the rhythm that goes over the other.





There are two mathematical approaches for solving polyrhythm. Also classified as mixed meters. Polyrhythm involving over nine beats, mentally let go of small divisions feel the bar as three. Dotted notes can be written in these cases to lessen the confusion, if there's any such. LOL!

1. Subdivide each beat in the bar into the number of subdivisions that are going "over" them. and then group the subdivision into units of the second number, the one that is being "overed.

6/8 Time Sign. 13 over 6 (second number)

The bar is divided in to 6 eighths note pulse, by way of the Time Sign.- here we are performing two equal pulses in the same period. The polyrhythm is 13 beats over six 8ths notes. Accomplished by first subdividing each 8th notes of the bar by 13. Then group those subdivisions into units of 6. 

2. Multiply the two numbers to the Lowest Common Multiple. Divide the bar into LCM.. and then group the divisions into units of the two numbers.
 
13 over 6
13 x 6 = 78   6/78= 13

[HumbleGospelDrummer]

Can somebody do me a favor?  According to the Q. Jackson clip, whats the BPM?  The battery on my metronome is about dead, but i want to practice the groove and fills(already written) today in about 2 hours, ill get a good battery when i get to the church but can someone please tell me the BPM?

[dude-on-drums]

My question still remains...who can play it?  Its not possible!  I wish there was someone who could make me eat my words!  Who has footage of this application?  Who knows somebody?  Anybody?  Find them and I will crown them...I didnt think so.  

[dude-on-drums]

Can somebody do me a favor?  According to the Q. Jackson clip, whats the BPM?  The battery on my metronome is about dead, but i want to practice the groove and fills(already written) today in about 2 hours, ill get a good battery when i get to the church but can someone please tell me the BPM?

How are we supposed to know that!?  The musicians in the clip were not playing to a click so I'm quite sure their time was shifting.  I guess you can figure out the average BPM if someone just happens to be sitting at a computer with a metronome!     ...what are the odds!   

[fLaT-fIfTh]

My question still remains...who can play it?  Its not possible!  I wish there was someone who could make me eat my words!  Who has footage of this application?  Who knows somebody?  Anybody?  Find them and I will crown them...I didnt think so. 

I can think of three people that know personally that could play it... Tony Royster Jr., Jonathan Davis, and Kevin Hayden...

God bless

[dude-on-drums]

I can think of three people that know personally that could play it... Tony Royster Jr., Jonathan Davis, and Kevin Hayden...

God bless

*sighs*  where's my practice pad... 

[j_kay]

*sighs*  where's my practice pad... 

Yes:



 

[dude-on-drums]

Yes:



 

LOL!  Youre nutty dude!   

[JAMAR23]

For the person who asked was that D. Tolefree, Yup, Thats him at Acts full Gospel In Oakland,Ca.