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Author Topic: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?  (Read 15110 times)

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2008, 12:10:43 AM »
Funkstrat,

You have communicated this point very eloquently. I must say that I agree with most of your point of view. I'm glad you posted the link on the core values of this movement because many of our church organizations flirt with most of these theologies. Many are under the facade of spritual freedom while really being spirtually hoodwinked. The first flaw in this theology is that it totally disregards the nature of God. Faith isn't a force but actions followed preceded by words. Paul tells us in scripture that God counted Abraham righteous due to his faith through a belief which was sparked by a personal word given FOR him. This explains him moving to a land he had never heard of. He even stop worshipping the God of his fathers (the moon God)

In other words faith without works is dead as written by James. Many confuse speak to the mountain as the only requirement for doing mighty acts. OUR actions in words and deed is what causes mountains to move. WE can't say I command myself to lose weight and then hit the all night buffet 10 minutes after we spoke that word. I liked Herm's transparent story about his car situation. This example is a microcosm of the point Funk and now I am trying to make about denominational heirarchy.

Sadly certain sermons such as Possesing your gates in 08 and A breakthrough in 02 sounds great. It puts buts in the seat. WHat it also does is warp some believer's mind into focusing more on their plight in this world rather than praying for the coming of Jesus. The theology of giving "to God" to recieve from him is false teaching. Sorry folks. I know 97% of "churches" teach this but it is false. Wicked people prosper because of decit, lies, work eithic, and good witty ideas. Most of these guys don't give churches a dime.

How can we give God anything when all the Gold and silver is his? What really helps this theology to catch on in church is that most Americans(humans) want a liposuction type relationship with God. So it makes sense(in their view) why they could give God 100$ in a revival and expect a 100 fold blessing. The truth is that God didn't get the money but that church did. They ain't giving a hundred fold. If one buys a money market account(which usually carries a 3 to 4 percent return) one will recieve interest in the agreed upon time. It is the teachers that are reaping the benefits.

The people "sewing"(the ones getting pimped) are still busted, disgusted, and can't be trusted because a play on scripture. I've been blessed beyond measure because I simply asked God for my possessions and he gave them to me. GOSPEL music is more dangerous than the preached word these days.. GOD will judge us royally for misrepresenting him throughout the ages...... OUR Broadway ministries, theologies, and self interest represent the broadway of destruction.
Ignorance is Bliss

Offline Vangelist

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2008, 12:19:35 AM »
No, the Word of God is ture....the inerpretation, however, is where the issue lies.

And that is a problem all by itself. Man can't make sense out of God, no matter how hard you try. If people were truly led by the Spirit (Holy Ghost) then we wouldn't have these problems. But i digress...

As to the previous question, marinate on this: "How can Satan cast out Satan?" Mark 3:23

Everyone is not equipped to excercise faith because faith is now a  novice item. It gets you in the door of holiness, but it can not maintain that holiness by itself. There must be Spirit now that the Spirit has come.
Read Hebrews 11.
I won't take nothing for my journey now. No turnin' back, no turnin' back.

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2008, 12:25:57 PM »
GOSPEL music is more dangerous than the preached word these days.. 


Eventhough Gospel music is supposed to be "spiritual" music, it does have quite a few things in common with ALL music - not the least of which being the fact the modern Christian music is a reflection of current popular music.  One of them is that music is a reflection of culture.  Even though we as Christians more or less believe the same thing(which is a very general statement that ignores the many differences of opinion and doctrines) and have a common spiritual heritage, our social cultures have an influence in the kind of music we tend to enjoy.  Within Christianity, there exist what I refer to as 'church culture'.  Word-of-Faith teaching is found in a plethora of churches regardless of ethnicity, but it seems to have really struck a chord within the culture of the black church*.  As a result of this, elements of W-O-F teaching are not only found in preaching, but also in the songs we sing and it seems as if these teachings have almost become self-perpetuating.  Some of you may be familiar with Dr. Jerry Buckner who has this to say about a lack of sound teaching in many black churches:

IS CHRISTIAN ORTHODOXY STRONG IN THE BLACK CHURCH?


*The term "black church" is intedned to denote a church congregation or orgainzatio where the overwhelming majority of the membership and leaders are black.
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Offline jlewis

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2008, 02:01:38 PM »
Eventhough Gospel music is supposed to be "spiritual" music, it does have quite a few things in common with ALL music - not the least of which being the fact the modern Christian music is a reflection of current popular music.  One of them is that music is a reflection of culture.  Even though we as Christians more or less believe the same thing(which is a very general statement that ignores the many differences of opinion and doctrines) and have a common spiritual heritage, our social cultures have an influence in the kind of music we tend to enjoy.  Within Christianity, there exist what I refer to as 'church culture'.  Word-of-Faith teaching is found in a plethora of churches regardless of ethnicity, but it seems to have really struck a chord within the culture of the black church*.  As a result of this, elements of W-O-F teaching are not only found in preaching, but also in the songs we sing and it seems as if these teachings have almost become self-perpetuating.  Some of you may be familiar with Dr. Jerry Buckner who has this to say about a lack of sound teaching in many black churches:

IS CHRISTIAN ORTHODOXY STRONG IN THE BLACK CHURCH?


*The term "black church" is intedned to denote a church congregation or orgainzatio where the overwhelming majority of the membership and leaders are black.


I read this article.   I think the dude  puts  a lot of emphasis on the idea that a conservative christian education  is the "correct"  and only method of bringing Orthodoxy back into  the black church.

Now some of his points on the number of auxillaries,  the lack of discipleship training, etc  are dead on.   But for me personally,  he put a little too much emphasis on how the only way to achieve this was for white evangelicals to sponsor   education training.  Personally, I believe that if a person is called to preach, then yes,  they should get seminary training,  but the Holy Ghost himself will teach them how to pastor.

I know some dudes with seminary training and they are losing grips on their congregations  because  the gift of servanthood is not present in their character.

Jlewis

changedman

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2008, 02:15:06 PM »
...hence my grandfather's theology that all songs in the church service should be straight hymns with no lead singers!  Ugh!

Offline J31

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2008, 02:47:26 PM »
Real Faith is in fact a force:

MARK 5

5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

 5:26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

 5:27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
 5:28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

 5:29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in [her] body that she was healed of that plague.

 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

 5:31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

 5:32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

 5:33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Even Jesus who was in fact all knowing did not know this woman was coming to touch him and be healed based on what she said within herself. Her faith is why she was healed her faith forced the heavens to respond. Now some might even go as far as to say this miracle would was not in the plan. Jesus did not come to her like the woman at the well, he was not sent for like Lazarus, he was not asked like the wedding party and the water to wine.

Her faith caused virtue to be taking out of Jesus. Read your bible. how often does it say after any miracle that Jesus did , that he lost something or even noticed ANYTHING  being taken out of him. Do not miss how powerful faith is. ;)
 

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2008, 02:57:20 PM »
...BRINGING IN THE SHEAVES!

Offline bishop2

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2008, 03:34:35 PM »
I kinda agree with the article, but at the same time, that's the black church.  You wanna do something different, go somewhere else... (Trying to be relevant to the conversation)  I just.... You know I don't want people to get all caught up in this, "If-it's a republican-it's-God stuff".  You know, making people feel like God is gonna rain down wrath and hell if we perhaps vote for someone that is for abortion or something...  That's what I kinda feel is the background tone of the article, could be wrong.

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2008, 11:50:12 AM »
Most times I read stuff before I comment but in this case I can take Jlewis' assessment on what the author was trying to say. Many times white evangelicals have a preconcieved belief that the black church lacks the proper training and know how. That lie goes all the way to the fields of slavery. The Methodist, Calvinist, and other protestant denominations twisted their theolgies to subjugate the minds of their parishoners both black and white. It was especially detrimental to black because our self idenity wasn't formed in the image of God. It was formed the opinions of sick people who thought that they were called by God to rule over us.. That's the truth...
Ignorance is Bliss

Offline J31

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2008, 11:59:23 AM »
Most times I read stuff before I comment but in this case I can take Jlewis' assessment on what the author was trying to say. Many times white evangelicals have a preconcieved belief that the black church lacks the proper training and know how. That lie goes all the way to the fields of slavery. The Methodist, Calvinist, and other protestant denominations twisted their theolgies to subjugate the minds of their parishoners both black and white. It was especially detrimental to black because our self idenity wasn't formed in the image of God. It was formed the opinions of sick people who thought that they were called by God to rule over us.. That's the truth...

Furious some how, some way man you can bring color into it. I LOVE YOU for real! You stay true

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2008, 12:18:14 PM »
The truth is what sets us free. We gotta keep it real. If we continue to ignore the legacy of hatred in the American church then we deny ourselves the blueprint on how to defeat this demon of racial supremacy...
Ignorance is Bliss

Offline Big T.

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2008, 12:29:39 PM »
The truth is what sets us free. We gotta keep it real. If we continue to ignore the legacy of hatred in the American church then we deny ourselves the blueprint on how to defeat this demon of racial supremacy...
Sooo true. :-X
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2008, 01:19:49 PM »
The truth is what sets us free. We gotta keep it real. If we continue to ignore the legacy of hatred in the American church then we deny ourselves the blueprint on how to defeat this demon of racial supremacy...

That's right.  As the Body of Christ, we are supposed to have love for the 'bretheren' regardless of the color of thier skin, or where they were born, or what language they speak.  How can we claim to love God who have not seen, but hate our brothers who we see with our eyes?  Is not man made in the image and likeness of God?  The early history of the Church in America is tainted by this legacy and we today MUST acknowlege this shame and move forward together as the one true Body.
“Don't bother to give God instructions, just report for duty”
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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2008, 05:42:17 PM »
That's right.  As the Body of Christ, we are supposed to have love for the 'bretheren' regardless of the color of thier skin, or where they were born, or what language they speak.  How can we claim to love God who have not seen, but hate our brothers who we see with our eyes?  Is not man made in the image and likeness of God?  The early history of the Church in America is tainted by this legacy and we today MUST acknowlege this shame and move forward together as the one true Body.
Amen!

changedman

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2008, 06:34:07 PM »
Shaba!

Offline uriahsmusic

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2008, 07:04:05 AM »
Most times I read stuff before I comment but in this case I can take Jlewis' assessment on what the author was trying to say. Many times white evangelicals have a preconcieved belief that the black church lacks the proper training and know how. That lie goes all the way to the fields of slavery. The Methodist, Calvinist, and other protestant denominations twisted their theolgies to subjugate the minds of their parishoners both black and white. It was especially detrimental to black because our self idenity wasn't formed in the image of God. It was formed the opinions of sick people who thought that they were called by God to rule over us.. That's the truth...

everything this guy says..I have to read twice!...I end up loving it after looking up a few words....I dont think that we need to watch these song writers so closely as to see if they are card carrying WOF'ers.

Because they know like you know....The check is not miraculously in the mail, being carried by Angels...but they hope it is....and the car that you got...that miricle will most likely bring along a friend called Mr Note.

...I have seen things that I simply can not explain...and I thank God for them....And I have been handed sorrows that can contend anyones sorrows....surely I have begged God for his mercy and then gave it over to Him.....I didnt always get it my way!

.....I think this....that as long as we understand that there is a mysterious God out there that has no intention of telling us what tomorrow brings, and that we should simply trust him like a little child trusts their own parent..that the word of faith ministry is OK!

....I think he wants us to ask...he wants us to talk to Him and commune with Him and trust Him. You will find out soon enough whether or not, if the check is in the mail.....or anything else He has in store.

Offline draxsom

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2008, 02:31:42 PM »
I am very concerned about the Theology of new Gospel music. I am a writer and I would love for someone to listen to the words of my songs and give me your feelings about the theology which I am trying to teach through the music. You can here the songs at Pilgrimproductions.com.   Go to the Folk Gospel section and look for voices of Greenville, Don Axsom. That will be me. Please let me know if there are things that you don't agree with.

Don A.

Offline draxsom

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2008, 02:35:05 PM »
Sorry I gave the wrong link. It is www.Pilgrimproduction.org then Music then folk music then voices of Greenville.

Don Axsom

Offline Grammi

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2008, 02:19:18 PM »
I'm like ULTRA late...but so what, lol


I happen to be a card carrying Word of Faither....and what I see displayed in the majority on anti-faith coments is simply ignorance.
I encourage the poster who brought this topic up to listen to a sermon or 2 from my Pastor Bishop Kieth Butler.

This discussion sounds as bad to me as the one I saw on MSNBC saying people who paid tithes were foolish.


None the less, to address the topic... there is A LOT of "gospel music" that has wretched theology... as well as a lack of common sense...

My personal fav is 'Jesus will Work it Out'.... why didn't she just pay her house note for the 3 months before she went on tour, with the pastor, choir and me  ?/? She wouldn't have had those big ole red letters if she paid the bills... and wait, I thought her daughter was taking care of her?

Just my tardy 2 cents

Offline BigFoot_BigThumb

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Re: Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2008, 02:44:23 PM »
Never heard the song. With that said, just reading the lyrics, I'm not necessarily moved by them, at all.  :-\

BTW, I have no idea where you were going with the "I command every..."  ?/? :-\


This is a beautiful song to me.  Dem womens be sangin' on dis heyah!  I call a simple song of encouragement.
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