Gospel Music: Good Music; Bad Theology?

[chevonee]

Society creates music, which is then influenced by music. It's a circle. We create music based on the things that we experience and the music in turns affects the ideas and emotions of others.

It's not the lyrics of the songs that are the problem though. It's society's craving for a quick fix. In this case, there is no quick fix. Do what God asks you to do and your marriage will work. Do what God tells you to do and your bills will be paid. Do what God tells you to do and you will prosper (which is also subjective).

The problem is that not EVERYONE is doing what God tells them to do. We get into an argument with our spouse and instead of fixing it, we want to hold on to it for later. These things build up to cause our marriages to break. We reaaaaaally want those brand new Jordans and a Wii for our children, so we skip on paying a couple bills. This causes our lights to get cut off.

I'm training my children better than this. Plus, they have a living example of what God can do....if you do what He tells you to do.

I couldnt agree more B3!

[nessalynn77]

Indeed. Everything that I've asked God for unintentional and intentional has been granted. I pray for God to direct me then if I don't have the ability/resources to do what He wants me to do, I ask for it. I don't pray for superficial things. Those things will be added if I do what He asks me to do. It's that simple.

Wow, Chris, this is really good.  I believe this is way it should be... praying in the will of God vs. asking amiss, I think that makes all the difference.  The scripture does indeed say what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe ye receive them, and ye shall have them.  The Clark Sisters just paraphrased it.  It also says we have not because we ask not, and when we ask, we still don't have, because we ask a miss. 

[changedman]

Wow, Chris, this is really good.  I believe this is way it should be... praying in the will of God vs. asking amiss, I think that makes all the difference.  The scripture does indeed say what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe ye receive them, and ye shall have them.  The Clark Sisters just paraphrased it.  It also says we have not because we ask not, and when we ask, we still don't have, because we ask a miss. 

I think the "error" comes when we don't "narrate" before we sing these songs and give a little history and explanation.

I learned my lesson the hard way with the Saturn.

The year was 2005.  The car was an '05.  I wanted it.

I named it and claimed it.

A minister in Memphis (Minister Turner) had seen an Avenger that he wanted, and he went to the car lot and walked around it seven times, and BAM it was his! 

I latched on to what he said, and BAM the Saturn was mine!

But, what he didn't say in his message (and what I didn't grasp until a year or so later when I had to let the car go) was that "naming and claiming the car meant naming and claiming the note that went along with it".

I was happy (felt like a king) to be driving an '05 in the year '05!  I felt it put me in a "different class" than my friends who all drove late model cars, some of which were paid for with no note.

My "naming and claiming" was definitely done AMISS and boy did I learn that lesson in my pockets....couldn't tithe...couldn't buy clothes and other things...couldn't go out to eat...almost my whole paycheck was spent on the note and insurance for the Saturn.

Then, I tried to cheat my way and be cheap by skipping out on the insurance, but I had missed one too many oil changes and it threw a rod, leaving me car-less!  LOL!

[sjonathan02]

Wow, Chris, this is really good.  I believe this is way it should be... praying in the will of God vs. asking amiss, I think that makes all the difference.  The scripture does indeed say what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe ye receive them, and ye shall have them.  The Clark Sisters just paraphrased it.  It also says we have not because we ask not, and when we ask, we still don't have, because we ask a miss. 

I think that may be Funkstrat's point.

What say ye, Funkstrat?

[changedman]

I think that may be Funkstrat's point.

What say ye, Funkstrat?

cosign

[gtrdave]

I'm going to start at the back and then come forward...I have no problem with "name it/claim it" preaching IF that preaching is founded in the will of God and nothing else. I believe 100% that if we disciples are completely in God's will then we will know exactly what to name and claim because it won't be of us, it'll be of Him.
That said, if a song has lyrics to that effect then, again, I've no problem with it.

It's like 'prosperity preaching'. Preaching prosperity for prosperity's sake is flat out wrong, imho. But preaching sound Biblically-based financial management as a means to #1 bring God His tithe #2 to bless others and #3 to not be a slave to the borrower is totally sound with Scripture.
In that, we can find the kind of prosperity that God would have for us. The 'pour out a blessing so large that it can not be contained' kind of prosperity.

As was already said, seek FIRST the KINGDOM and His RIGHTEOUSNESS and then all these other things will be added to you. And I can bet you that if we DO seek Him first, our list of things that we want added to us may lessen or may just plain change because those "things" will be things that He will add to us, not things that we'll go searching and chasing after like a bunch of pagans... 

[sjonathan02]

I'm going to start at the back and then come forward...I have no problem with "name it/claim it" preaching IF that preaching is founded in the will of God and nothing else. I believe 100% that if we disciples are completely in God's will then we will know exactly what to name and claim because it won't be of us, it'll be of Him.
That said, if a song has lyrics to that effect then, again, I've no problem with it.

It's like 'prosperity preaching'. Preaching prosperity for prosperity's sake is flat out wrong, imho. But preaching sound Biblically-based financial management as a means to #1 bring God His tithe #2 to bless others and #3 to not be a slave to the borrower is totally sound with Scripture.
In that, we can find the kind of prosperity that God would have for us. The 'pour out a blessing so large that it can not be contained' kind of prosperity.

As was already said, seek FIRST the KINGDOM and His RIGHTEOUSNESS and then all these other things will be added to you. And I can bet you that if we DO seek Him first, our list of things that we want added to us may lessen or may just plain change because those "things" will be things that He will add to us, not things that we'll go searching and chasing after like a bunch of pagans... 

Cosign!

[Fingers!]

I'm going to start at the back and then come forward...I have no problem with "name it/claim it" preaching IF that preaching is founded in the will of God and nothing else. I believe 100% that if we disciples are completely in God's will then we will know exactly what to name and claim because it won't be of us, it'll be of Him.
That said, if a song has lyrics to that effect then, again, I've no problem with it.

It's like 'prosperity preaching'. Preaching prosperity for prosperity's sake is flat out wrong, imho. But preaching sound Biblically-based financial management as a means to #1 bring God His tithe #2 to bless others and #3 to not be a slave to the borrower is totally sound with Scripture.
In that, we can find the kind of prosperity that God would have for us. The 'pour out a blessing so large that it can not be contained' kind of prosperity.

As was already said, seek FIRST the KINGDOM and His RIGHTEOUSNESS and then all these other things will be added to you. And I can bet you that if we DO seek Him first, our list of things that we want added to us may lessen or may just plain change because those "things" will be things that He will add to us, not things that we'll go searching and chasing after like a bunch of pagans... 

I totally agree!!  "Prosperity preaching" never bothered me because EVERYTIME I hear it I always accept it with the fine print, "according to God's will."

[Redy2bUsed]

Cosign!

And Amen again!!

[changedman]

The danger therein falls when people who are "babes" in the faith (regardless of how long they've been in church) have no knowledge or concept of the "fine print" - an element I try to incorporate in songwriting all the time.

I can write something "deep", based on a personal experience/encounter with God but the person who likes the key, the rhythm, and wording of the song could latch on and believe something other than what I meant with no understanding or mention of the "fine print" in the song.

All of us are on different levels "experience wise".

It's kind of like when the Williams Brothers re-released the old Congregational Song "Jesus Will Never Say No".  For real?

Man please!  Mind you, there was probably an experience or two that led the people of old to write and sing that.  But we don't know what that was; we have no knowledge of the "fine print".  Therefore we just take it at face value that "Jesus Will Never Say NO" when in all honesty, sometimes HE WILL!

[chevonee]

The danger therein falls when people who are "babes" in the faith (regardless of how long they've been in church) have no knowledge or concept of the "fine print" - an element I try to incorporate in songwriting all the time.

I can write something "deep", based on a personal experience/encounter with God but the person who likes the key, the rhythm, and wording of the song could latch on and believe something other than what I meant with no understanding or mention of the "fine print" in the song.

All of us are on different levels "experience wise".

It's kind of like when the Williams Brothers re-released the old Congregational Song "Jesus Will Never Say No".  For real?

Man please!  Mind you, there was probably an experience or two that led the people of old to write and sing that.  But we don't know what that was; we have no knowledge of the "fine print".  Therefore we just take it at face value that "Jesus Will Never Say NO" when in all honesty, sometimes HE WILL!

That's a very good point Herm.

[pastors4jesus3]

It is vital that we all maintain a healthy balance when it comes to certain sayings or doctrines. The problem that I have seen far too many times is, people go from one extreme to the other. One can not live out of the will of God and expect to name it and claim it.

[changedman]

as songwriters we must specialize in "making the fine print readable"

[malthumb]

I'm just sittin' back here goin'  "Well!......alright.....speak that truth'' 

Y'all got it covered.  Nothing for me to add.

[changedman]

EVEN ON LGM WHEN WE TYPE IN "FINE PRINT", WE FIND WAYS TO MAKE THE MEANINGS CLEAR...WHY NOT IN OUR SONGS?

[funkStrat_97]

I think that may be Funkstrat's point.

What say ye, Funkstrat?

Me says that there is nothing wrong with brining your requests to God.  In fact, I ask God of a lot of things...it's up to Him if it comes to pass or not.  The problem that I see with the Word-of-Faith teahings is that they seem to put you in control of God via the power of Faith.  In other words, Jesus is effectively reduced to little more than a means to an end.  It gives a clouded view of life and stunts true spiritual growth.  This doctrine is directly tied to the so-called prosperity gospel.

[nessalynn77]

EVEN ON LGM WHEN WE TYPE IN "FINE PRINT", WE FIND WAYS TO MAKE THE MEANINGS CLEAR...WHY NOT IN OUR SONGS?

I don't think songs are meant to be detailed.  Like someone stated previously, you are not to base your living on a song (although some people quote songs as scripture, lol)  A song is just an expression of the writer's feelings.  People make a BIG mistake when they act based solely on a song, or even when they act solely on something a preacher said.

[sjonathan02]

I don't think songs are meant to be detailed.  Like someone stated previously, you are not to base your living on a song (although some people quote songs as scripture, lol)  A song is just an expression of the writer's feelings.  People make a BIG mistake when they act based solely on a song, or even when they act solely on something a preacher said.

True. Once again, it comes down to one reading one's Bible to get an understanding, via the Holy Spirit, for one's life.

[changedman]

I don't think songs are meant to be detailed.  Like someone stated previously, you are not to base your living on a song (although some people quote songs as scripture, lol)  A song is just an expression of the writer's feelings.  People make a BIG mistake when they act based solely on a song, or even when they act solely on something a preacher said.

You mean like the funeral at GPHMBC where the lady stood up and started her "remarks" with ... "in my Bible, it says may the works I've done speak for me" and I had to run out the side door because I couldn't hold that laugh in any longer!?

[Vangelist]

Well, I'll put it this way... The Bible says we have not because we ask not. I don't believe there is anything wrong with Word of Faith, but the problem lies in the FAITH aspect. People have 'faith' to believe God to supply what they want, but not 'faith' to let God save them. They come to Christ for what they want, but not what they need. What I'm trying to say is, get the soul right first and then you will be able to speak what you will and it shall be given. That's what the Bible says.

As far as the "I command every..." statement that was made earlier, I believe that falls under whatsoever you bind on Earth, will be bound in heaven and whatsoever ye loose on Earth, will be loosed in heaven. Again, that's something alot of people apply to their christian walk.

Power and death lies in the power of the tongue!