Over playing

[FPS]

There might be different terminology for this but I call it over playing.
I probably wouldn't be so critical but I used to hear this talented bass player try to fill in every note/space when he played. Everything ran together, nothing stood out. I don't know, maybe he was just bored. This taught me a great lesson though.   

I told myself I'd never let this happen when I played. Maybe this is old school thinking but to me the music should accompany the singers. 
I listened to myself online recently at a couple of services and guess what...yep, for my taste I'm doing to much or (too busy as the other thread says).

I think maybe the live setting has a little to do with it. Seems like it's always different listening to a recording verses live. I think playing maturity has something to do with it also. Hopefully as I grow I'll improve in this area even more. I'm going to make it a point to listen to the online services once in a while to make sure I'm doing the best job I can.   

Anyone else hear a yourself and make adjustments to your playing style?       

[Ken Felder]

For Me i am my biggest critic. there been times when i would listen to my self on a live church recording and thought i was doing to much. its learning process. you have to discipline your self and play inside the pocket. I know a lot of musicians who don't how to play in the pocket. This dude from NJ told me that if you want to play bass for a living leave the Wooten stuff at home. It hurt but he was right. i will never for get that because it made me humble my self.  at the time i thought i had to show all of my licks  in every song. but there's a time and place for those things. That's why i Stress keep it clean and tight and in the pocket. You get more calls that way.

Peace Ken!

[DWBass]

I said it before and I'll say it again, Gospel music seems to be the only genre where the bassists seem to get just as much recognition as the artists or performers! Not only that, the bassists are way more busier than any other genre! Sometimes it serves the music well and sometimes it just overpowers the songs. I find it self serving especially when some bassists 'insist' to be allowed to do what they want! This is why I prefer listening to and playing older, more mature styles and songs. Hey, it could be my age group (late 40's). I just prefer simpler pocket playing without overplaying.

[dhagler]

This is why I prefer listening to and playing older, more mature styles and songs. Hey, it could be my age group (late 40's). I just prefer simpler pocket playing without overplaying.

+1

[floaded27]

DW, i think it is ur age group (no offense). but i think the older guys have a different attitude when it comes to musicianship. Many of the younger guys coming up (not all though), especially in the church/gospel arena (unfortunately), are just out to make a name for themselves. But what the true problem is that they have this cocky attitude that if you're a "nobody" they wont give you the time of day. So what this kinda does is force the ones coming up behind them to try to make a name for themselves just to get in with the others.

Like if i was coming up and i wanted help to take myself to the next level, or just wanted to figure out how to do a particular thing, the older cats like you DW would say "i dont know much, but i'll show you what i know" (always modest. LOL. but thats a sign of a humble spirit). you ask that of some of these other guys and its like you gotta be "nice enough" for them to even acknowledge that you exist. That happened to me once, and even though u want the approval from another bass player, I'm at the point where I'm not worried about that anymore. But some of the people havent matured and feel that they have to do whatever to impress these guys. If you're a nobody you dont get invited to these sheds and other programs. And many dont wanna be a "nobody" so they go overboard to impress.

Im at the point where if I have God on my side, and truly know Him, i dont have to try to impress anybody. The Lord will open up doors for me, many of which wouldnt have opened any other way. Whats sad is the Gospel musician ESPECIALLY should have this mentality, but many dont. And im glad for the "interviews" that we had going on LGM. And i see that all of us who posted have a relationship with God or are developing one. Sadly I believe many of the so-called gospel musicians dont know who God is.

[laj528]

Praise the Lord floaded27 ,

Unfortunately many have deviated from the call to be a minstrel for God and have become stage performers.

Humility is a must in any area of ministry. “freely ye have received, freely give.”  If it makes it any better this is not just a musician’s issue. Church is becoming big business and with that comes a mind set of competition. Forgetting that nothing is of oneself but all things are possible through Jesus Christ.

Now for the good news:
God still has people that are willing to freely give. Just look at our LGM family. It is not about name or position. It is about helping. I thank God for the mighty cloud of witnesses here on LGM.

Keep the faith and never let a few with unwarranted arrogance discourage you.

Peace,

Pastor Keith T. Jackson

[FPS]

These are some great comments, I hear some experience talking.
I know I've had to take a step back before to remember the reason I'm playing.

 

[ssabass]

I like what the young gospel cats bring to the table. The only reason some cats think there over playing, is because thats how they've been taught. They have been taught that the Bass should be played a certian way. The bass does have a certian role, but who really has the last say. The electric bass is still a very young instrument & it's role has grown over the pass 25yrs. No one has the right to say that an instrument should be played a certain way, when it's in someone else's hands. I'm old skool myself, started playing bass in the mid 70's & I love the pocket, but sometimes I love to hear a Bass Player that might be busy, but yet can keep the foundation of the song in check. DW you are right, some of the gospel bass players do get as much recognition as the artist. I believe it is because the gospel cats are some of the only bass players that's really laying it down. They did  not except someone telling them, the Bass should be played a certain way & Thank God they didn't listen.

[dhagler]

Another perspective from an older player.  I started playing bass three years ago for two reasons: (1) I had always wanted to learn, and (2) I wanted to add to the music ministry at my church.  God has bleseed me to be able to do just that, and He has also put people in my path to guide my playing.  They have all told me more or less the same thing:  be yourself.

When I go to Youtube and see some of the bass players there, I think to myself, "That's really quite impressive.  But it's not me."  Floaded makes an excellent point that some players are trying to be noticed so they make themselves stand out.  Again, that's not me.  One of the benefits of being older is a sense of security and self-awareness.  I know who I am, I know what's important, and my playing is given its proper place in my life and my relationship with God.

[trsmooth]

DW, i think it is ur age group (no offense). but i think the older guys have a different attitude when it comes to musicianship. Many of the younger guys coming up (not all though), especially in the church/gospel arena (unfortunately), are just out to make a name for themselves. But what the true problem is that they have this cocky attitude that if you're a "nobody" they wont give you the time of day. So what this kinda does is force the ones coming up behind them to try to make a name for themselves just to get in with the others.

Like if i was coming up and i wanted help to take myself to the next level, or just wanted to figure out how to do a particular thing, the older cats like you DW would say "i dont know much, but i'll show you what i know" (always modest. LOL. but thats a sign of a humble spirit). you ask that of some of these other guys and its like you gotta be "nice enough" for them to even acknowledge that you exist. That happened to me once, and even though u want the approval from another bass player, I'm at the point where I'm not worried about that anymore. But some of the people havent matured and feel that they have to do whatever to impress these guys. If you're a nobody you dont get invited to these sheds and other programs. And many dont wanna be a "nobody" so they go overboard to impress.

Im at the point where if I have God on my side, and truly know Him, i dont have to try to impress anybody. The Lord will open up doors for me, many of which wouldnt have opened any other way. Whats sad is the Gospel musician ESPECIALLY should have this mentality, but many dont. And im glad for the "interviews" that we had going on LGM. And i see that all of us who posted have a relationship with God or are developing one. Sadly I believe many of the so-called gospel musicians dont know who God is.

yo doc i agree with you on that!!!!! in my learning process ive been through that same struggle. when i was first learning and playing different venues, other musicians didnt take me serious and acted like they didnt want to play with me  because the "other dude" was better. its was very dicouraging for a moment because i wanted to win their acceptance. people were talkin bout me my back and smiling in my face. as i progressed in my music and in godover a two-year span, i started to turn heads and win respect of those same people who tried to play me and didnt believe in me. but at that point i didnt care what anyone thought of me....i just love to play. i just think its an obstacle all young new generation musicians go through.

[bass_mann1]

You should always play from your heart, if you have to think about a  "doublethumb" or  how many notes you can pile in a measure, that's not playing, thats preforming, your music, like your blood, it should flow, I agree with DW, I'm old school (early 50's)

[bass_mann1]

DW, i think it is ur age group (no offense). but i think the older guys have a different attitude when it comes to musicianship. Many of the younger guys coming up (not all though), especially in the church/gospel arena (unfortunately), are just out to make a name for themselves. But what the true problem is that they have this cocky attitude that if you're a "nobody" they wont give you the time of day. So what this kinda does is force the ones coming up behind them to try to make a name for themselves just to get in with the others.

Like if i was coming up and i wanted help to take myself to the next level, or just wanted to figure out how to do a particular thing, the older cats like you DW would say "i dont know much, but i'll show you what i know" (always modest. LOL. but thats a sign of a humble spirit). you ask that of some of these other guys and its like you gotta be "nice enough" for them to even acknowledge that you exist. That happened to me once, and even though u want the approval from another bass player, I'm at the point where I'm not worried about that anymore. But some of the people havent matured and feel that they have to do whatever to impress these guys. If you're a nobody you dont get invited to these sheds and other programs. And many dont wanna be a "nobody" so they go overboard to impress.

Im at the point where if I have God on my side, and truly know Him, i dont have to try to impress anybody. The Lord will open up doors for me, many of which wouldnt have opened any other way. Whats sad is the Gospel musician ESPECIALLY should have this mentality, but many dont. And im glad for the "interviews" that we had going on LGM. And i see that all of us who posted have a relationship with God or are developing one. Sadly I believe many of the so-called gospel musicians dont know who God is.

Hey my brother, remember one thing, you are playing in one of God's ministries, and to God, YOU ARE SOMEBODY. somewhere there will always be somebody willing to share, try growing up on the 60's and 70's playing a righty bass (no offense) flipped upside down and trying to get someone to teach you something, I didn't get my first left hand until the late 80's, I felt the same way you did, but time...and age... (early 50's) have shown me my blessing, I can play either way now and I loved what you put in the last paragraph, you are on the right road, stay encouraged

[hands5]

I like what the young gospel cats bring to the table. The only reason some cats think there over playing, is because thats how they've been taught. They have been taught that the Bass should be played a certian way. The bass does have a certian role, but who really has the last say. The electric bass is still a very young instrument & it's role has grown over the pass 25yrs. No one has the right to say that an instrument should be played a certain way, when it's in someone else's hands. I'm old skool myself, started playing bass in the mid 70's & I love the pocket, but sometimes I love to hear a Bass Player that might be busy, but yet can keep the foundation of the song in check. DW you are right, some of the gospel bass players do get as much recognition as the artist. I believe it is because the gospel cats are some of the only bass players that's really laying it down. They did  not except someone telling them, the Bass should be played a certain way & Thank God they didn't listen.

When you say...... laying it down, what do you mean in musical terms ?

[DWBass]

When you say...... laying it down, what do you mean in musical terms ?

I have to ask that question as well because there are quite a number of 'non gospel' bass players who can 'lay it down' just as well as the gospel cats.

[under13]

I have to ask that question as well because there are quite a number of 'non gospel' bass players who can 'lay it down' just as well as the gospel cats.

Maybe beause non gospel players know thier role in the band,  and they dont step out of it

[floaded27]

i think the mentality is different. with outside non-gospel venues, you can very well play yourself out of a gig. so that mental state to be on point in your playing to get called back is essential. With gospel, unless your playing for some gospel artist, your playing in church and most likely dont have to worry about not being called back to play next sunday, so you tend to step out the box more and it gets to the point that some stepped so far out the box so often, they dont even know where the box is. (did someone take it and use it, was it recycled...? i dunno)

also if you dont go to a church that has all the musicians, the people that you playing for dont really know what they're hearing anyway so there's no one to pull the reigns on you. i see that happen a lot, where a young cat is playing (especially drums) and the other musicians (well rather other musician cause its probably only 1) is way out in left field and dont know much about music, just to play what they tell you. so whose to put structure on this young player? especially now in the days of the internet and youtube where they can see all the hype and craziness to try and imitate?

[jeremyr]

here's something to think about.

Do you think that the older songs were underplayed on purpose?  I say that because they had to get it right in one take and playing less would definitely make that more easier to do.  So with that in mind and thinking of todays technology should be say that the old way is the best because it's what they were limited to?

[DWBass]

That's definitely not what I'm saying! What I'm saying is I've noticed the current trends in urban gospel music to be increasingly chops heavy and it seems the musicianship is overtaking the vocal aspect (and message) of songs! Not necessarily saying it's a bad thing but just that my personal listening (and playing) preference is the older more contained styles of the genre! I don't think it's a technology thing. The younger generation just has a different way of expressing themselves. It's all good! 

[ssabass]

Under13,I didn't say the only ones, I said some of the only ones laying it down. To those that don't understand the lingo, it means playing some mean Bass. There are some bad cats out there, ecspecially in the Jazz world. It's just, some of the gospel cats just have a "feel", that you don't hear in other music. Tell me who wrote the book or wheres the manual, that states what the role of a bass player should be. The role of a bass player is what ever the producer wants. So with that said, if the gospel bassist is as some would say, "to busy" that must be what the  producer wants, so being busy is there role.  Some of you act like the bass player walked in the session & said here's the bass line thats going to be on the song, & I dare you not to use it. That's not how it works. "Some" of these gospel cats utilize the Bass to its full potential. I read an article that, Gouche was told he played to many notes & he's one of the baddest cats out there. I just don't agree, that gospel bass players are to busy. It fits the music. I love listening to a bass player that knows how to navigate through the song tastefully & yet not disrupt the song.  Also most engineers, know where to put the bass in the mix, where its not overwhelming. The  gospel bassist I listen to know how to do both, busy if needed, pocket if needed. These brothas definetly know there role. Name me some gospel songs where the bass player just played a bunch of notes, that didn't fit into the context of the song. would love to hear them.

[DWBass]

ssabass, no one is saying "stop playing like that" at all! If it fits the song, by all means "lay it down"!! Some folks dig it and some folks don't. It's all good as long as it's done in the spirit of praise and not self serving!