Over playing

[ssabass]

DW,  under13, stated that, maybe non gospel players know there role in the band, & they don't step out of it. implying, that gospel bass players do. I was just replying to that statement.

[floaded27]

Name me some gospel songs where the bass player just played a bunch of notes, that didn't fit into the context of the song. would love to hear them.

whatever our choir sang in rehearsal last week. i overplay sometimes, im not gonna lie, and sometimes it dont fit at all. and you'll see me look at the drummer laughin like "whoa that was totally out there." but thats rehearsal and im experimenting because im not at the level where i see bass notes floatin around fitting into the song. i gotta try and see if it fits if it dont, i dont do that anymore. if it does, i'll go home and work on it.

im not sure if any of us are talking about people on recordings, because we all know if the producer or artist thought they were overplaying they would get shut down, and i've heard the stories. we're talking about regular ordinary, not-on-tour, not-in-the-studio musicians. and i've heard some overplaying on EVERY instrument (even heard over-singing). we're talking about drummers rolling to the point where they're not keeping a beat anymore, bassists tricking out to the point where theyre not outlining the structure of the song, keyboardists and organists doing runs to the point where theyre not even playing the song, singers riffing to the point where they're not even singing actual words. we're talking about doing to much stuff to the point where ur not doing what your supposed to do. yeah a lot of the bassists can be busy and still hold down the groove and provide the foundation, but we're talking about the ones who are not. and many of them are places we go, not on the records we buy. and as DW says,  most times when ur excessive like that, you're into self and not in the spirit of praise

[DWBass]

DW,  under13, stated that, maybe non gospel players know there role in the band, & they don't step out of it. implying, that gospel bass players do. I was just replying to that statement.

Gotcha! I figured there was some miscommunication in there somewhere! I was confused myself!

[DWBass]

whatever our choir sang in rehearsal last week. i overplay sometimes, im not gonna lie, and sometimes it dont fit at all. and you'll see me look at the drummer laughin like "whoa that was totally out there." but thats rehearsal and im experimenting because im not at the level where i see bass notes floatin around fitting into the song. i gotta try and see if it fits if it dont, i dont do that anymore. if it does, i'll go home and work on it.

im not sure if any of us are talking about people on recordings, because we all know if the producer or artist thought they were overplaying they would get shut down, and i've heard the stories. we're talking about regular ordinary, not-on-tour, not-in-the-studio musicians. and i've heard some overplaying on EVERY instrument (even heard over-singing). we're talking about drummers rolling to the point where they're not keeping a beat anymore, bassists tricking out to the point where theyre not outlining the structure of the song, keyboardists and organists doing runs to the point where theyre not even playing the song, singers riffing to the point where they're not even singing actual words. we're talking about doing to much stuff to the point where ur not doing what your supposed to do. yeah a lot of the bassists can be busy and still hold down the groove and provide the foundation, but we're talking about the ones who are not. and many of them are places we go, not on the records we buy. and as DW says,  most times when ur excessive like that, you're into self and not in the spirit of praise

I hear you! And I'm probably referring mostly to the non pros as well. I've been in a few situations where it seemed they were 'shedding' ALL THE TIME! I don't think y'all heard me.........ALL THE TIME!!

[under13]

Under13,I didn't say the only ones, I said some of the only ones laying it down. To those that don't understand the lingo, it means playing some mean Bass. There are some bad cats out there, ecspecially in the Jazz world. It's just, some of the gospel cats just have a "feel", that you don't hear in other music. Tell me who wrote the book or wheres the manual, that states what the role of a bass player should be. The role of a bass player is what ever the producer wants. So with that said, if the gospel bassist is as some would say, "to busy" that must be what the  producer wants, so being busy is there role.  Some of you act like the bass player walked in the session & said here's the bass line thats going to be on the song, & I dare you not to use it. That's not how it works. "Some" of these gospel cats utilize the Bass to its full potential. I read an article that, Gouche was told he played to many notes & he's one of the baddest cats out there. I just don't agree, that gospel bass players are to busy. It fits the music. I love listening to a bass player that knows how to navigate through the song tastefully & yet not disrupt the song.  Also most engineers, know where to put the bass in the mix, where its not overwhelming. The  gospel bassist I listen to know how to do both, busy if needed, pocket if needed. These brothas definetly know there role. Name me some gospel songs where the bass player just played a bunch of notes, that didn't fit into the context of the song. would love to hear them.

I think church musicians in general Are playing too "out the box". I'm not complaining cuz I like that kinda stuff. It all depends on what the music director wants. but like others have said it has come to a point where the music overshadows the words and the messege. We have to choose our spots when it comes too playing out the box. If its a Hezikiah walker song then the band can play almost as crazy as they want, but the problem is, we have musicians overplaying at times when they should not

No, we arent the only ones that do it, when or if you listen to Joey DeFrancescos albums (jazz organ player) he does some CRAZY things, but the difference is that there is no meaningful messege or words in those songs. If there were words in the song, he would not be playing like that.

[ssabass]

I can definetly relate to that. You should always push the envelope in practice, thats ok. Practice is where you develope a certain feel for a song, & find out what works & what doesn't, especially when there vocals. I'm quite sure there are bass players that overplay, & think they are really doing somethin, & sound a mess. But I live close to Chicago, so when I do go to local concerts, I get to hear bass players like, Fitzgerald, cat named Little Rodney, Sharee Reed plays for Pastor Meeks, Salem Baptist Church every sunday, this cat out of Decatur Ill. named Eric, he played with Pharis Evans Jr & SWV, he's a bad boy, & Derrick Hearnes. Went to a local concert a few yrs ago, The Blakely Family & Joel Smith Played. So maybe I have just been spoiled. But I must add, I don't go alot, so maybe you brothas have experienced this attitude, more than I have.

[hands5]

Under13,I didn't say the only ones, I said some of the only ones laying it down. To those that don't understand the lingo, it means playing some mean Bass. There are some bad cats out there, ecspecially in the Jazz world. It's just, some of the gospel cats just have a "feel", that you don't hear in other music. Tell me who wrote the book or wheres the manual, that states what the role of a bass player should be. The role of a bass player is what ever the producer wants. So with that said, if the gospel bassist is as some would say, "to busy" that must be what the  producer wants, so being busy is there role.  Some of you act like the bass player walked in the session & said here's the bass line thats going to be on the song, & I dare you not to use it. That's not how it works. "Some" of these gospel cats utilize the Bass to its full potential. I read an article that, Gouche was told he played to many notes & he's one of the baddest cats out there. I just don't agree, that gospel bass players are to busy. It fits the music. I love listening to a bass player that knows how to navigate through the song tastefully & yet not disrupt the song.  Also most engineers, know where to put the bass in the mix, where its not overwhelming. The  gospel bassist I listen to know how to do both, busy if needed, pocket if needed. These brothas definetly know there role. Name me some gospel songs where the bass player just played a bunch of notes, that didn't fit into the context of the song. would love to hear them.

I see/hear what you are saying,but it has nothing to do with being one of the "baddest cats out on the scene,and btw I've been in session were the [ Executive producer-the cat has the deniro paying for the project,and the producer/musical director ]the instructions were to play exactly what is in front of you ( meaning stick to the sheet ) which I was/am capable of both chops/groove,however with that being said it had nothing to do what my personal playing library contain,what they wanted to see was if I could lay it down via the sheet music,and trust me it was hard because there was plenty of space in the music to do my thing,but it took some real discipline to play....as some people would call it ........straight., but I will say this. There are some young players out here on the set that get pretty anxious with there playing and they don't play in church at all ! but it's all good

[bass_mann1]

I found a good example, check out Maurette Brown Clark " One God". He is very busy, without overplaying, and yet he is still "in the pocket". anyone agree or disagree?

[Steelpulz]

He had some nice runs interspersed in there. I think he pretty much stayed in the pocket.Tasty!!

[jeremyr]

I found a good example, check out Maurette Brown Clark " One God". He is very busy, without overplaying, and yet he is still "in the pocket". anyone agree or disagree?

that's Mr. Sharay Reed Playing on that song.

[bass_mann1]

that's Mr. Sharay Reed Playing on that song.

Thanks for the info, I will be looking for more of his work

[mjl422]

Thanks for the info, I will be looking for more of his work

He also plays on CeCe Winan's Throne Room Live DVD.

I think alot of it has to do with the expectations of the Musical Directors too.  It seems that most of the bassplayers who are considered nice and get all the gigs (at least where I'm from) are the busier players.  I'm not sure I would consider them "overplaying" because they keep the feel/flow of the song but, a lot of time they could play half as much and say the same thing.

[Robear22]

I had a situation once where I was told by the keyboard player(who got me the gig) that I was playing too straight. Liven up the groove a little bit. In the gospel scene I really think it is expected to play busy at times.

[mjl422]

I had a situation once where I was told by the keyboard player(who got me the gig) that I was playing too straight. Liven up the groove a little bit. In the gospel scene I really think it is expected to play busy at times.

I've experienced the same thing several times.  I was talking to a keyboardist/organist friend of mine once (we were talking about good bassplayers).  When I mentioned that I liked Darrell Freeman, he told me that Freeman was "too pocket".  It's definately expected for bassplayers (in gospel) to move around a bit more than other genres (with the exception of jazz and fusion).