do I need to learn songs?

[Virtuenow]

Is it necessary that I learn songs?

I mean, I am not teaching any choirs any songs at this time (I'm not M.O.M).  I am just playing so I can play along at a small church.  I hope (and believe) that someday I will have a choir to teach and lead.  However, at this time, I am just starting out.  I think the thing I want to gather from songs right now is the common patterns/progressions and to develop my ear in general. 

With that said, do I need to learn songs (as in chord/write them out, the whole sha-bang)?!  I like to play w/a CD and write out the general progressions I get from the whole song; but not specific chords b/c I don't want to play the song the exact same way everytime.

[divinemusician]

so can you hold down a service or you need to know everything as far as holding a service down which includes but not limited to "talk music" , preaching chords, congragational songs, etc.

[under13]

You gotta do whatever helps you learn. I wouldnt write out chords, because that is not the way I learn or play. I learn most things by ear, and I wouldnt want to be dependent on writtin out music. As a gospel musician, you have to be ready for any song, in any key at anytime, so you just have to "feel" it and cant depend on stuff you wrote out. I say that to say, if that helps you learn, go ahead and do that, just try not to rely on it.

I do suggest that you learn the choir parts. You never know when knowing how to give parts will help you

[Virtuenow]

I guess I need to learn talk music.  I haven't gotten that far!  Preaching chords, I know minimal on.  You have got me on those 2!  However, I am holding down service for the most part--- something I never thought I would be able to do.

I already practice congregational songs and have a couple of patterns that I follow.  I have not mentioned this before, but we have a lead guitarist that I play along with and my patterns don't necessarily match his.  I have to change up the patterns slightly (like from minors to major chords) when he  comes to church.

But to explain a little, I have not chorded out my congregational songs.  I just write, for example: "I'm a Soldier" 1-2-1, 2-5-1; if that is the pattern I have picked out for the song.  The church sings in all different keys throughout service and they sing alot of different songs;  but there seems to be some common patterns to these songs. 

[Virtuenow]

You gotta do whatever helps you learn. I wouldnt write out chords, because that is not the way I learn or play. I learn most things by ear, and I wouldnt want to be dependent on writtin out music. As a gospel musician, you have to be ready for any song, in any key at anytime, so you just have to "feel" it and cant depend on stuff you wrote out. I say that to say, if that helps you learn, go ahead and do that, just try not to rely on it.

I do suggest that you learn the choir parts. You never know when knowing how to give parts will help you

That's what I mean, I want to be ready!  Good point.  I do not want to depend too much on music I have written out.  I don't really commit it to heart when I do so.  Further, I don't feel like I really know what is going on until I have figured out the progression pattern (not necessarily the key or the special way it is chorded).  About learning the choir parts, do you mean congregational songs (explain please)?

[under13]

That's what I mean, I want to be ready!  Good point.  I do not want to depend too much on music I have written out.  I don't really commit it to heart when I do so.  Further, I don't feel like I really know what is going on until I have figured out the progression pattern (not necessarily the key or the special way it is chorded).  About learning the choir parts, do you mean congregational songs (explain please)?

By choir parts, I mean the harmony that a choir would sing. (Soprano, Alto, Tenor). As a musician, you are much more valuable if you know how to teach a chior. Do you read music? that might help you understand chior parts, and certain hymns.

[divinemusician]

for talk music please look at this thread...

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,50946.0.html

[T-Block]

I'd concentrate more on learning more music patterns/progressions than actual songs.  Once you got some patterns down, try to work them into a song you learning.

I wouldnt write out chords, because that is not the way I learn or play.

I would, writing chords out helps you to remember better just in case you forget.  Plus, it reinforces what you should have in your head already.  I write everything down, I mean everything.  I don't depend on that paper, but I got it written down just in case I need to be refreshed on it.  Memory fades, but what's written on paper stays forever (unless u erase or burn it, LOL).

Maybe that's not the way you learn, but it can help others.

[under13]

I would, writing chords out helps you to remember better just in case you forget.  Plus, it reinforces what you should have in your head already.  I write everything down, I mean everything.  I don't depend on that paper, but I got it written down just in case I need to be refreshed on it.  Memory fades, but what's written on paper stays forever (unless u erase or burn it, LOL).

Maybe that's not the way you learn, but it can help others.

I personaly would rather have a recording of somthing, than a chord sheet or something like that. As you might have figured, I'm not really a theory person (yet)

[musallio]

Up until recently, would just focus on getting the song down in various styles, without writng it down.

But now I write the stuff down, because sometimes I can come up with some nice fill-ins & forget them the next minute
For that reason, it helps to have it down on paper (not that I'll ever play it as it is on paper again--i go by feel.)

But each time I'm practising a song I have specific focus areas, viz:

1) Getting familiar with playing the song in all the keys.
2) Analyzing patterns prevalent to other songs I know of;
3) If I don't readily associate the pattern with other songs, I try to THINK of a song where a particular pattern can fit in.

4) Most often than not, I compare the sound of the same chord in different inversions &/ I compare a chord with other chords for a specific part so that I have various chords to choose drom for 1 part.

I don't play at church so I don't have too much pressure on me, however, I'm planning to play the synths as soon as we update our sound system/ equipment..

[T-Block]

I personaly would rather have a recording of somthing, than a chord sheet or something like that. As you might have figured, I'm not really a theory person (yet)

I ain't talking about theory, I'm talking about writing anything you play down so you don't forget it.  A recording is also a good reference to have. 

[under13]

I ain't talking about theory, I'm talking about writing anything you play down so you don't forget it.  A recording is also a good reference to have. 

My thing is that you cant express 'feel' with theory. In gospel the feel is just as important as the chords you play.

[T-Block]

My thing is that you cant express 'feel' with theory. In gospel the feel is just as important as the chords you play.

I sorta agree wit u here.  I believe anything can be expressed with theory.  Maybe not the full 100% expression, but close enough.  I completely understand where u coming from though.  It helps if you start out learing with theory.  Going the other way (like most musicians) doesn't seem to make any sense at first.

I knew theory before I could even play a chord or scale.

[under13]

I sorta agree wit u here.  I believe anything can be expressed with theory.  Maybe not the full 100% expression, but close enough.  I completely understand where u coming from though.  It helps if you start out learing with theory.  Going the other way (like most musicians) doesn't seem to make any sense at first.

I knew theory before I could even play a chord or scale.

Thats why I dont like when musicians get the sheet music to gospel songs, cuz you miss all those little things that cant be put into the sheet music. and it quite frankly sounds wack.

I'm gonna make it a priority that I learn theory by the summertime. I know major, minor, diminished,7th, but the other stuff I've either forgotten or havent learned.

[Virtuenow]

I'd concentrate more on learning more music patterns/progressions than actual songs.  Once you got some patterns down, try to work them into a song you learning.

I would, writing chords out helps you to remember better just in case you forget.  Plus, it reinforces what you should have in your head already.  I write everything down, I mean everything.  I don't depend on that paper, but I got it written down just in case I need to be refreshed on it.  Memory fades, but what's written on paper stays forever (unless u erase or burn it, LOL).

Maybe that's not the way you learn, but it can help others.

Okay, why don't we chord songs out by just writing the progression patterns for each line?  Doing this instead of writing out each note would be more helpful for me, I think.  Does this make sense?  I would love to see someone post a song in this style as an example.  If no one else will, maybe I will learn a new song and give it a try!

[T-Block]

I would love to see someone post a song in this style as an example.  If no one else will, maybe I will learn a new song and give it a try!

The problem with that is u always gonna get somebody who responds "this doesn't sound like the CD" or "those aren't the right chords", etc.  I could probably post tons of songs this way, but I want to make sure every song I post is as close to the original as I can make it.  If you want a "quick & dirty" version, u probably have to pm me, LOL.

[Virtuenow]

If you want a "quick & dirty" version, u probably have to pm me, LOL.

Ha, ha.  You know I will pm you.  I will make you regret this offer boy!

[Mysteryman]

Posting songs by progressions would be the easiest and fastest way. I would post more if that was the case but many people do not want to take the time to learn progressions. I stopped posting songs with each note because it takes so long to do that.

You can base what you learn musically on where you want to go. It would benefit you to learn to read music and learn theory. Since you know you want to teach a choir you should learn how to play voice parts in your chords early on. This can help your ear and help you avoid bad chording habits. Trust me is harder to change bad habits later on for some people. For me I want to start getting more into piano performance so now I am working on hanon exercises. Im also going to upgrade my song repertoire. Get some theme, classical, hymns, and jazz music under my belt.

[Joshua Coleman]

One thing I have learned so far is that no matter who you are or where you are. People get this mindset that who ever sits to play the keyboard knows everysong that ever been song!  So I would say yes you do need to learn. My uncle got a saying he says (I don't care about how many runs, chords, or talk music you can come up with, until you learn how to play the songs you are not a true musician)

[Ladyn]

I love having songs posted by the progression!  Here is an example of what I am trying to get my P&W team to go to. I use this so I don't get confused if I change keys! (looking at chords in Bb and playing in D is not good)  I also memorize a lot of songs so I am not tied to a sheet. But there are times when I do need a sheet for various reasons.  So here is an example of what I use:

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