Snubbed by Professionals...

[chrismc101]

What's going on my good peoples.

I have been wondering, why does it seem like us that are working on our crafts, honing in our our skills, pressing towards the mark; steadily; "why does it seem that we get snubbed by those who are bass luthiers, bass cab makers, and other individuals who make or sell/distribute equipment that we utilize in our craft.

Understanding, there are some who stick there hands out and always have their hands out. But it's not like that all the time with all of us. And be honest, who doesn't like freebies or sumthing for less. I've NEVER been snubbed by an artist per say, but luthiers and others seem to have nothing to say in response unless your name is already out there.

Gouche didn't become Gouche the 1st time he plucked the strings, just as an example. I will say, in some of their defense (lightly) that Epifani (after I inquired) sent me an application for a beginner endorser; but do you think I've heard back from them? NOT. I tried contacting a couple of luthiers; Minnieweather being one, and I didn't even get a no I can't help you email back. Mind you, I wasn't asking for ANYTHING free, but I was reaching out as a bass player wanting to be a part of their different product lines.

It's evident that everybody who has a love for the bass won't be touring, but does that mean that we play less or don't have a liking for nice equipment. Yes, I do understand that these companies and individuals are looking at things from a marketing point of view; how can I get as many people to see my product; but what about us who are striving?

My gift was bestowed upon me by GOD, whom I give all the praise for he is worthy! Anytime I play, I'm playing for him. In him I ONLY put my trust in, but why do we (us) without a big name get snubbed alot?

Keep pressin,

C-Sharp

[uriahsmusic]

.....maybe they missed your e-mail or maybe they are not as organized as you think......Why take it personally like that?.....

[Torch7]

I think the bottom line, is the bottom line. 

From a business perspective, you gotta be able to "Jerry McGwire, Show me the money.

Don't give up, keep honing your craft, keep inquiring.

[DWBass]

What these folks are looking for is 'free advertisement'! They most likely want someone who is extremely visable, has a large professional & high profile resume. Someone willing to do clinics, product appearances and such. And lastly, someone who is loyal to the product. Some makers will 'give' you stuff and others will just offer a discount. I wouldn't take it personal

[Mysteryman]

I thought you really have to know your bass to get endorsments? If I did I would be posting videos all over the internet of my playing. Someone is bound to discover you. Of course you can do like some musicians and cover up the name of the company on your instrument. lol

[under13]

Nikee doesnt give sneaker endorsements for High school ball players, so why would they give free gear to up and coming Bassist?

[Torch7]

Nikee doesnt give sneaker endorsements for High school ball players, so why would they give free gear to up and coming Bassist?

Actually.... they have... Lebron?  J/K we all know he was a special case.

Like mentioned above and like everybody else is saying, its all about ROI, return on investment.  Believe it or not some of these companies, are still small time operations, barely keeping themelves afloat.  Some and not very business savvy, if you have something they can benefit from, you gotta sell, it spell it out for them, b/c lots of times in the business world, folks can't see the ocean standing next to it.

I've helped many small businesses, and offered ways of getting great exposure, and put before the masses.  I have often got the response, I am not ready for that volume of business. 

[Torch7]

okay let me qualify the Lebron statment before someone calls me on it.

NIKE would not give a high school kid an endorsement because it would violate UIL rules, and amatuer status, but as soon as they see opportunity to pounce to their benefit, they will.

This is why you see guys getting endorsements based upon their draft status, they could turn out to be a bust, but NIKE recognizes potential.

[floaded27]

well i doubt its always for free gear. which is crazy a lot of times because with some stuff, the main people who can actually afford it is the people that dont even have to.

as for the high school sneaker endorsement, not the same. because not everybody that buys sneakers can play ball, neither do they have to. but if you're buying a bass, more than likely its not for fashion. you can either play or trying to.

unfortunately as torch and dwbass says, its a numbers game. they want you to bring in the most business that you can without them actually having to pay you to do it. ironically a new player (new business) wont buy the bass that some profession world-known guy is playing, mainly because he knows he's not at that level (as well as price). so why not have someone lower down the rankings so people can feel this guy is "just like me"? i guess they feel no one would really see the "guy thats just like them" anyway, so they say whats the point.

the problem is in todays society, people will side with someone famous without even taking their own attributes and abilities and opinions into consideration. Just like every bass isnt built for everyone (you can even forget about tone and stuff like that and think simply about physical properties like size,weight,etc), but if they can get as many people to buy it without even bothering to think about that the better. and thats something a beginner cant do, nor would probably even want to do.

[under13]

Maybe it wasnt the best anolagy, but yall know what I meant. They aint givin away nothin free unless you are always in the limelight

[mcrracer]

Something not yet mentioned...It's not what you know, it's who you know.
I have been blessed with a free high quality  bass because I hang out with a high profile bass player who is an endorsee of a particular company.
Also being in the right place at the right time.
I have built relationships with various luthiers and bass companies just by talking with them and /or being there when they had a need that I was able to fulfill.
And then sometimes things have been done for me or given to me for no reason that I could figure out.
Maybe I am reading something that is not in your post but it sounds to me like you feel entitled to free or discounted gear. The world don't owe you nothin.  But if you live right and stay in tune with the Spirit, God will provide for all of your needs.
I have been playing off and on for over 35 years, but I make no claims to being all that. I am a functional bass player and that is all. Blues was my genre and I have played with some relatively famous people but so what. I have now dedicated my playing to Gospel only. And I am trying to learn to be functional here.
 Hang in there , good things will come to you.

[Main5playah]

To all: great question and great answers but for me it seems we all missed the most important factor! Hmmmmmmmm  what might that be? How about we serve a Great God that can, has, and will supply all our needs, being Bass players that might translate into anointing others through our ministry of music and isn't that more important than the type of Bass we play. Don't get it twisted I like high end Axes myself that's an understatement given some of my previous post,  But "MY" goal is to minister in music unto God first and then the world.

[floaded27]

mainplayah, thats true. and just like God, he can very well give us things with ease, but a lot of things he has in store for us, we have to work for. that way we can appreciate it. for some just getting things handed to you can morph into going to church on sunday morning so the people can see u got some new bass. so it becomes a gear show rather than a ministry. but when we work for our stuff we cherish it and know that it might not be the best or this or that brand, but its dedicated to God and for his work. and its loved and taken care of.

i think sometimes people want that testimony "God provided me with this or that without having to do anything for it" or whatever. but theres nothing wrong with the testimony of "God woke me up everyday and gave me the mind and ability to work hard and pay for this myself"

[jeremyr]

Where's Tim from Callowhill when you need him..lol.  I'm sure he can give some great insight into this topc.

Tim if you're reading this please post your thoughts.

[Torch7]

Maybe it wasnt the best anolagy, but yall know what I meant. They aint givin away nothin free unless you are always in the limelight

I gotcha, i was just giving a hard time....

Where's Tim from Callowhill when you need him..lol.  I'm sure he can give some great insight into this topc.

Tim if you're reading this please post your thoughts.

I was thinking the same thing Jeremyr.

In the meanwhile, while before Tim arrives, here are somethings he said on the topic, during an interview with Gospelbasslines.


Gospel Bass Lines: Back to the talented musicians. I have heard up and coming bassist ask, "what does it take to get endorsed, by a Bass company" Being a builder of quality instruments, can you offer any insight as to what you look for in Musicians to work with?

Tim Cloonan: Personally, I can't stand endorsements. I work extremely long hours, and the components in my instruments are more expensive than many of my competitors so my "profit margin" is tiny. Many of us in the bass building trade joke that we make under $10.00 an hour - but for many of us this is true. My standpoint is that if a player wants an instrument they will endorse it by BUYING it. The musicians who helped me develop my line were picked by me, and they don't function as endorsers in the traditional sense, but rather they are my R&D department. They request models, we design them together, I build them, and they take them out and test them in multiple environments in an effort to determine if they make the cut. If I'm given a green light, it becomes available to the public as an offering from the company.

 In a nutshell, my take on endorsements is that large companies NEED endorsers to lend credibility to poorly constructed mass production instruments so that kids can go the local Guitar Center and purchase said instruments with their parent's money! I'm not a large company, and have no wish to become one.

Gospel Bass Lines: What aspects led to the selection of your R&D players?

Tim Cloonan: For me, it was about stepping back and asking myself who has a unique voice and who has something to contribute to take things a step further. I looked at their style, touch, and taste in gear and then went from there.

The Entire Interview: http://www.gospelbasslines.com/interviews/?interview=4

[CallowHill]

Where's Tim from Callowhill when you need him..lol.  I'm sure he can give some great insight into this topc.

Tim if you're reading this please post your thoughts.

This is a tough one.  I operate from a different perspective in that I don't cut deals.  I have a small R&D crew that I started my company with (Thaddaeus, Maurice, Derrick...) but that's pretty much it.  Also, my reason for using top level players had nothing to do with exposure or free advertising, but rather to develop an uncompromising top shelf line of basses from a unique and often ignored segment of players who I felt deserved an oppurtunity to see their ideas realized.  The reason I dislike endorsement or artist deals is they create a heirarchy between "artists" and "consumers".  I view everyone in the same category.  My take is complicated so I'll leave most of it off of this post, but the bottom line is that I build a premium product that competes easily with other brands costing thousands of dollars more, my low profit margin by comparison is my way of offering a "deal" to everyone. 

I find that 99% of the players who call and ask for a deal have little-to-no interest in supporting my company, they just want a deal.  Any deal.  If they were interested in the product, they would purchase it. 

It's a little short and direct, but that gives you an idea.  All of us small companies have our own opinions and views on it, that's a little snippet of mine.

[under13]

I gotcha, i was just giving a hard time....

I'm used to it on this site

[CallowHill]

In the meanwhile, while before Tim arrives, here are somethings he said on the topic, during an interview with Gospelbasslines.

Doh!  Oh well, at least I'm consistent!

[Torch7]

In the meanwhile, while before Tim arrives, here are somethings he said on the topic, during an interview with Gospelbasslines.
Doh!  Oh well, at least I'm consistent!

That's right, consistent and cool as a fan in the winter time..... LOL!

NOW YALL GO AND BUY A CALLOWHILL BASS!

[malthumb]

.....
I have built relationships with various luthiers and bass companies just by talking with them and /or being there when they had a need that I was able to fulfill.........

That has been my experience.  I've received t-shirts, strings, and novelties from bass companies that I've built relationships with, but never a free bass.  I have also received "preferential pricing" for some basses I've purchased.

Stanley Clarke plays Alembic basses more than any other brand.  He's been using Alembic basses for over 30 years and along with John Entwistle, pretty much put them on the map.  They even have a signature line of basses named for him.  But until they surprised him with this one....



they had never ever GIVEN a bass for free to anybody.  Now, I'm certain he got a sweeter than sweet discount, but he wasn't getting free instruments.

Peace,

James