Unfaithful Musicians....

[T-Block]

I agree with everything u said divinemusician.

Here's the problem I see with a lot of church musicians, ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE MUSIC.  That in my opinion is such a tragedy.  Your first concern should be your soul, that means getting the Word just like everybody else.  Your next concern should be ministering through music as well as in your daily life.  You are a minister first, and a musician second.  How u gonna minister if u don't get the word?

A lot of musicians only show up when they have to play, then u don't see them anymore.  What about your soul?  What good is it to be a church musician all your life then die and go to Hell?

I believe that musicians should get paid but if that is the only goal than perhaps one should just call him/herself a hirling and spell it out on a contract. 

There are a lot of "hirelings" in the church musician world, so sad.

[divinemusician]

Churchs tolerate musician because the musician knows that we live in music driven society this includes the church.  I am a pastor of a small ministry. I have had a tough time dealing with musicians (pianist, organist, drummer) I have fired two maybe three musician because they repeatedly arrive late and leave early.  The church can not be held hostage by musicians.  If God has planted you in a ministry.  Be committed or don't play.  I believe that musicians should get paid but if that is the only goal than perhaps one should just call him/herself a hirling and spell it out on a contract. 

totally agree... IF GOD HAS PLANTED YOU IN A MINISTRY...... KEY WORDS.. BE COMMITTED OR DON'T PLAY... SAID VERY WELL.

[divinemusician]

But it looks like God is leading to pastures never envisaged before, & I vow to be FAITHFUL DivineMusician

You know Musallio God gave me the name DivineMusician because like you i am not gifted as far as playing a keyboard, etc. Through struggles and hard work I am getting to be an alright musician but I vowed that with being in this music thing I would give God my all and do my very best. I would allow Him to lead as I follow, I vowed I would be HIS DIVINEmusician. Divine coming before the musician so therefore I am God's child before I ever take the title of Musician... I have a DIVINE purpose and I want to be that musician that sets standards not follow standards( unless they are of God)

[amandaag]

musicians should be faithful; they should be dedicated in what they do, making God their main priority instead of money. Regardless of whether they're getting paid or not, money should not be the first thing in their mind as a church musician, it should be God.

[musallio]

You know Musallio God gave me the name DivineMusician because like you i am not gifted as far as playing a keyboard, etc. Through struggles and hard work I am getting to be an alright musician but I vowed that with being in this music thing I would give God my all and do my very best. I would allow Him to lead as I follow, I vowed I would be HIS DIVINEmusician. Divine coming before the musician so therefore I am God's child before I ever take the title of Musician... I have a DIVINE purpose and I want to be that musician that sets standards not follow standards( unless they are of God)

Blessed be thou in your going in & your coming out sista

I agree with everything u said divinemusician.

Here's the problem I see with a lot of church musicians, ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE MUSIC.  That in my opinion is such a tragedy.  Your first concern should be your soul, that means getting the Word just like everybody else.  Your next concern should be ministering through music as well as in your daily life.  You are a minister first, and a musician second.  How u gonna minister if u don't get the word?

A lot of musicians only show up when they have to play, then u don't see them anymore.  What about your soul?  What good is it to be a church musician all your life then die and go to Hell?

There are a lot of "hirelings" in the church musician world, so sad.

Ok, I saw this today at church...I was suppossed to play the lead, & my sister was going to be on backup/ vice versa..
But then the main guy who plays for the choir came (don't want to go into other irky details..).
Actually, he asked for my board from my sis, so i said it's cool, he can play main & I can just play lightly in the background (afterall, who am I coz I'm just a newcomer into this playing world who just relies on God to use me to minister to the souls that hear the music as well as to minister to me, while he's been on the road all his life..)..So all was cool, I connect the system etc...& woola, we have American guests, so the guy tells me: Mus, can I play alone today because we have these people here, I didn't know they'd be here...(& guess what was the other thing...my sis who is always "never in the mood" to practice with me at home was all of a sudden in the Spirit to play.. I just said, sure sis, go ahead)...I tried to explain to this guy that I'd play really really softly just to get a feel coz I'll be playing next week anyway..but U could see that I was trying to mess up his opportunity to show off to the American guests..twas written all over in his face, so i just said, it's cool man, but just let my sis play in the background anyway..I wasn't there 4 show-off or anything, i was just there to play a God-given role at church, so if today wasn't the day, then I wasn't going to seek my will, but His.
Mind U , the playing was so astounding...the choir sang Now Behold The Lamb & another fancy song..all very well..The talk music I heard today..it was so good..
I thought, Wow, these people should be permanent here so that the music is perfect from start to finish.

& most importantly, at the end of the service, the guests went to the guy & congratulated & were asking him all particulars...At that point I said to myself: Well, the guy got what he wanted,so I'm happy for him..But I also prayed & said Lord, help me to do it for your Glory..I don't want to sin against you coz it's so easy..

Anyway, I shouldn't be playing alone next week because there is another man who used to play ages ago & I asked him if we can play together...hopefully we will both be doing it for God's glory, not to show that we can play like this dude.

Lord help us & have mercy on us..

I love U guys here because U are God-Centered..& so far as church is concerned, it should be purerly about that.

[SoundofJoy]

I think when the musician is givien periodic instruction they will come into an understanding of how their role in the ministry is important. In my course i don't just give chords and tips to playng but I give practical instuction as to how a church musician should prepare themselves for worship before the service starts. I feel that musicians need to have their own monthy service/shed were they can be ministered to as musicians. You've heard the statement "preaching to choir" that's when something is being said to people who are doing the right thing and the people who need to hear it are not there.

Many musicians will not "hear" what being said in this thread because they are "deaf" to hearing the truth about them. Post a few chord and they're all over this site looknig for a midi file or the notes written out for them.

Pay for play, there's a thread that will provoke controversey......I'll leave that alone.

Sam Tolbert
35 years full time church musician
COGIC, Baptist and United Methodist Church

[musallio]

Dr. Tolbert, U've hit again with your wisdom..

I take heed of what you say & couldn't say what you've said any better..

Please go into that controversial thread...It would be interesting to see where it will lead us...

[SoundofJoy]

See you want to get me banned of this board


Well, if the "laborer is worthy of his/her hire....."who determines if they're worthy and what they are worth?

Basketball players get million dollar salaries to play a school yard game, however, the people who watch pay as much as 1000.00 for front court seats to expirience a good game.

Basebal players get millions of dollars to throw a round object at each other but, people pay 40-85.00 per game to watch them do this and expirience a good game.

Musicians sacrifice the most valuable commodity they have(time) in practicing, rehearsaing, traveling, puting up with choir members and because of their talent
people bring in thousands of dollars a month into a ministry to experience a good service.

Take away the music and all you have a meeting............

If preachers preach for pay....singers sing for pay.....why shouldn't the musician play for.......if they're worthy

[musallio]

You have a point there Mr Tolbert...Especially guys like you who really give your all & most importantly are true servants of God..

You are well worth to be paid...how much, it's not for me to say, but no doubt you should be paid.

2 weeks ago I was with this pastor. He tells me that a guy who plays at his friend's church wants to be paid (I think it's because he's suddenly heard that other players are being paid).
I believe that it is the right thing to pay the players for their time sacrifice etc ( the pay is really not so much for playing to praise God as most ignorant people claim/ try to put down "divine" musicians, but rather,for the extra mile they go to serve the people (i.t.o. time, skill etc...God doesn't need our skill, but the people certainly WANT our skill (most often than not) & that requires that we do everything to be the best we can, & surely should be paid like the illustrations you've used).


Anyway, back to my story:

The guy/ player, 1st of all, plays in 1 key & transposes everything...(ok, I guess that's fine, you should still be paid if you are fulfilling your job..he plays what the people like, so it's ok).

But, the guy doesn't practice, so he can't really say he should be paid for his practice time..
So in my view, the guy is really spotting a $$$ making opportunity & expects to be paid for playing in a normal church service @ his home church

It's understandable if he's called to play at some special function at a weird time, but on a regular service

So this pastor tells me that he'd rather the guy stops playing & he hires a full time player/ MoM whom he'll be more than happy to compensate appropriately.

The pastor also plays BTW, & he know what real players have to go through...

[TheBigO30]

Look I been playing faithly at my church for five year. but i been musician 22 years (play drums and brass horns). I have not been paid once. but i notice that my faithness, doing God work payoff in a long run. My curtain church don't paid me, i don't ask to be paid. God really take care of me and my family. because of my faithless God heal my son from cancer,and at 31yrs old God had Bless me with a home (that paid for). That why i give my all to the Lord.

Good is a God and he will take care of those that do his will. so if your church is not paying don't worry God will open doors for you.  Just Be Faithful

[musallio]

Look I been playing faithly at my church for five year. but i been musician 22 years (play drums and brass horns). I have not been paid once. but i notice that my faithness, doing God work payoff in a long run. My curtain church don't paid me, i don't ask to be paid. God really take care of me and my family. because of my faithless God heal my son from cancer,and at 31yrs old God had Bless me with a home (that paid for). That why i give my all to the Lord.

Good is a God and he will take care of those that do his will. so if your church is not paying don't worry God will open doors for you.  Just Be Faithful

AMEN !!!
PRAISE, GLORY & ALL HONOR GO UNTO THE Lord!!

Thanks for sharing this powerful testimony..
God's principles are mind-blowing

[divinemusician]

Look I been playing faithly at my church for five year. but i been musician 22 years (play drums and brass horns). I have not been paid once. but i notice that my faithness, doing God work payoff in a long run. My curtain church don't paid me, i don't ask to be paid. God really take care of me and my family. because of my faithless God heal my son from cancer,and at 31yrs old God had Bless me with a home (that paid for). That why i give my all to the Lord.

Good is a God and he will take care of those that do his will. so if your church is not paying don't worry God will open doors for you.  Just Be Faithful

AND THE CHURCH SAID AMEN! I think as musicians we get stuck on everybody else getting paid... but I feel if yuo get paid or not be faithful after all you are playing for God not people. I don't really agree with Mr Tolbert on if you dont' have musicians/music you jut have a meeting.... you can have church with just your hands clappin and your feet stomppin.. but that is my personal thoughts. I dont ever want to be where I think a church cant have church unless I am tappin some keys because God said where two or three are gathered together in HIS name there He is in the mist. Not if the musicians are there playing their instruments... dont' get me wrong because I am an up and coming musician i just dont want to get it twisted that the church "need" me to have church...

[Quieter]

   This is one of the many reasons I love this site. So much insight.  I just had this conversation with a musician today.  In that he said, quote-unquote, "I'm am all about the dollar."  I have to agree with divinemusician, I pray that I never get to the point that I feel that the church needs me to have church.  I've played at 2 other churches (large), a mess from the front to the back, and was getting paid.  I now play for a small church, sometimes I get paid, sometimes don't.  However, I feel this is where the Lord has placed me.  I do have a home church, which is much larger, and I attend when I can.  In the small church, I not only play, when asked, I have done Christmas Programs, Easter, prayer breakfast, etc.  Not only playing but doing whatever is needed.   With all that said, I don't work, husband is disabled, but I haven't missed a meal or anything else.  The Good Lord does provide.  (God Bless you TheBig030)-Just be faithful!

[betnich]

Speaking of paid staff musicians...How many do "extra" above and beyond their job description?

Just curious...
 

[T-Block]

Speaking of paid staff musicians...How many do "extra" above and beyond their job description?

Just curious...
 

I do whatever I can to help the church, even if it's not music related.  Just because you have a certain position at church don't meant u can't help out in other areas as needed. 

[musallio]

Speaking of paid staff musicians...How many do "extra" above and beyond their job description?

Just curious...
 

I feel very sorry for ppl who see nothing beyond their playing at church, whether paid or not..
The church can only be what people desire it to be if everyone will faithfully serve..
If you want to be begged all the time just to feel important, God doesn't favor any1 & He will bring in some1 to play that role that you were selfish & lazy to play..

That's why it's important for churches to not allow just any1 to play just because they can play..
Ideal, it should be some1 with a heart to serve..afterall, ministry is all about service.."Not just the $$$$!!" let's not go into the $ debate now.

[TheBigO30]

that where your Blessing come from, servering the Lord and hi children, but also doing it with a cheerful heart

[divinemusician]

I do whatever I can to help the church, even if it's not music related.  Just because you have a certain position at church don't meant u can't help out in other areas as needed. 

TOTALLY AGREE T-BLOCK