Weekend Shed...March 14th

[REarll]

Yup....I am up north in the Denton/Lewisville area......

   Good to hear, Im in town near the White Rock Lake area.  Seems we have a couple things in common, its great to see one of my frat brothers thumpin that bass for the Lord.

[floaded27]

update for Wednesday night.

the seriously killed me out there with those old congregation songs. we dont really sing much of those at my church and some of them i never even heard of before. one song one of the older preachers sang the organist never even heard of (i literally saw his reaction like "what is this!?") so i know i wasnt alone, but he was able to pick it up quick (or did some of the best fakin this side of town) wish i could catch on as quick... in time i guess. the choir sang songs that i knew, but not how to play. (songs that my church hasnt sang since i been playin). so basically i was sittin in the wind last night. since the choir marches in on the same song, i was able to find out what it was and since i was able to fix my computer and download it (thanks to getting home early after getting a ride from my pastor) and practice it a bit (not fully, but some) maybe i'll be able to do more than just sit there wondering when they march in tonight. lol

[floaded27]

Hopefully you'll get to play more with dude that played the organ yesterday (or others like him)... that's how it SHOULD be, someone on keys who communicates with the other musicians and works with them instead of just doing their own thing just to show out.

thats what i definitely need, but more so in a jam session kinda thing (since i can ask questions, explore and understand where i should be or what i should be doing) rather than
 in a service or rehearsal (since you have an agenda)

[Quebass86]

Stay strong....I took a hymn book home and made copies of alot of the old "100s" and started lerning them. I know about the one's you have never heard before, I have been there but not that often. It definately helped me though..

[floaded27]

update for Thursday night...

tonight was womens day and they had two services but since the afternoon service started late and thus ended late, the 7pm service didnt start till like a quarter to 8. i guess because of that they decided to do away with P&W so no playing there. since i got my computer working right last night and rehearsed the march song for the choir i thought i was good....they totally switched it up on me tonight. in the famous words of charlie brown "uuggggghh". but i hung in there as best i could. i absolutely knew none of the songs they sang for a selection and for offering... never even heard of them before, so that was difficult getting because not only it took me forever to find the key i just had no idea where the song was going. i tried to hang in there and i picked it up on the end. there was a praise break (first one since monday..when i wasnt playing) but i just kept it simple because i didnt know where they were gonna go. paid attention like crazy. i kept up ok. (good to challenge with variety..... not too much though. all in all i didnt really do much tonight, but i dont feel bad about it at all. i just felt it was a good challenge; no discouragement at all.

[BossRon]

God bless you brother, your break through is on the way, hang in there!

[dhagler]

update for Thursday night...

tonight was womens day and they had two services but since the afternoon service started late and thus ended late, the 7pm service didnt start till like a quarter to 8. i guess because of that they decided to do away with P&W so no playing there. since i got my computer working right last night and rehearsed the march song for the choir i thought i was good....they totally switched it up on me tonight. in the famous words of charlie brown "uuggggghh". but i hung in there as best i could. i absolutely knew none of the songs they sang for a selection and for offering... never even heard of them before, so that was difficult getting because not only it took me forever to find the key i just had no idea where the song was going. i tried to hang in there and i picked it up on the end. there was a praise break (first one since monday..when i wasnt playing) but i just kept it simple because i didnt know where they were gonna go. paid attention like crazy. i kept up ok. (good to challenge with variety..... not too much though. all in all i didnt really do much tonight, but i dont feel bad about it at all. i just felt it was a good challenge; no discouragement at all.

A question:  do you record programs or services when you play, or do they have tapes/CDs available for purchase?

[floaded27]

i dont believe they tape the services. i could find out thought. but im not sure how that'll help me. at most i could listen and learn the congregation songs, but since we dont sing them in our church i'd probably forget them by the time i'd have to play again, and thats on top of learning what i need to learn for my church. the problem coming in this so late is that im so far behind. old songs i still have yet to learn and new ones keep coming out. not saying that nobody else had this problem when they started to play, but the later you start the worse it is. there no way i could learn every song that can possibly be sung.

unless you have some other suggestions? but i'll definitely find out if they taped anything.

[dhagler]

i dont believe they tape the services. i could find out thought. but im not sure how that'll help me. at most i could listen and learn the congregation songs, but since we dont sing them in our church i'd probably forget them by the time i'd have to play again, and thats on top of learning what i need to learn for my church. the problem coming in this so late is that im so far behind. old songs i still have yet to learn and new ones keep coming out. not saying that nobody else had this problem when they started to play, but the later you start the worse it is. there no way i could learn every song that can possibly be sung.

unless you have some other suggestions? but i'll definitely find out if they taped anything.

You are not as far behind as you think, and there are others on this site--myself included--who are farther behind than you.  I make the suggestion of recording because (1) you began to build a library of songs you HAVE played in case you need to play them again, and (2) there are common progressions and common keys in the older songs that you begin to be able to spot more quickly.  I also believe that once you learn a song you won't forget it.  It may take you a little bit to remember where it's going but you won't forget it.  I was listening to the radio this morning and "The Struggle Is Over" by Youth For Today came on.  It's a song I have played before, and it took me a little bit but by the end of the song I was right there.  I am a math teacher by profession and there is absolutely no substitute for repetition in order to learn a process.

Now, I have only been playing three years and it's very likely that our playing situations vary greatly. My church is very, very, very Southern traditional, and we play out of the hymn book every Sunday.  Most of my recording is at rehearsals because it gives me something to go home to practice to that is closer to what I actually face on Sunday than the CD version of the same song.

Stay encouraged. You are farther along than you think. We are often our own worst critics.

[floaded27]

we are pretty much in the same boat dhag. i've been learning for 3 years now but only been playing in church for about a year. maybe i need to listen to it though, not to build the song list, but to get used to hearing different chords and chord changes that they play so i can catch on easier. im getting better, but its a lot at one time. i have to get used to playing with guys like this.

for me, i do have to adjust to my organist, but its best for me to know how to play the song correctly because if i have to play it with someone else i dont wanna be stuck in the "wrong way". (which gets me because he says "the bassline goes like this or that" when its a busy song and the bass player is doing way much more than what he's telling me its doing, but im not at that level yet so i have to do whats in my abilities, but he does none of what the keyboardist or organist does on the record. so now if i go somewhere and others do what theyre supposed to i need to keep with them, to the extent of what im actually able to do).

yeah we are our own worst critics... but sometimes im actually right.

[dhagler]

we are pretty much in the same boat dhag. i've been learning for 3 years now but only been playing in church for about a year. maybe i need to listen to it though, not to build the song list, but to get used to hearing different chords and chord changes that they play so i can catch on easier. im getting better, but its a lot at one time. i have to get used to playing with guys like this.

for me, i do have to adjust to my organist, but its best for me to know how to play the song correctly because if i have to play it with someone else i dont wanna be stuck in the "wrong way". (which gets me because he says "the bassline goes like this or that" when its a busy song and the bass player is doing way much more than what he's telling me its doing, but im not at that level yet so i have to do whats in my abilities, but he does none of what the keyboardist or organist does on the record. so now if i go somewhere and others do what theyre supposed to i need to keep with them, to the extent of what im actually able to do).

yeah we are our own worst critics... but sometimes im actually right.

One difference in our playing situations is that I play with pretty much the same musicians week in and week out, whereas I think you are playing different venues with different musicians.  I can appreciate how difficult that must be.  And my key musician NEVER plays the songs the way they sound on the record!

[floaded27]

update for Friday night...

tonight i was on point. although i had a bit of trouble with P&W. since it was the night they were doing communion, they sung those communion themed songs. and while i do know them, because i help out with communion at my church, i never play during, so i never had to play these songs. but i guess because i knew them, it made it a bit easier to figure it out.

the choir march song changed again, but i knew this one (practiced it just about every night) and i jammed, same with the first choir song. and because i was comfortable i flowed a bit more adding in extra every so often. the second song was Ricky Dillards "One More Chance" a song that i struggle, because i cant seem to continuously play that busy throughout a song **** hint for help ****. that constant movement (particularly over chord changes) is a big weak area of mine. but the service was live, couple of songs i didnt know but i did my best. There was some praising going on so i got to jam with that (there wasnt any of that tuesday or wednesday, and thursday it was just a taste. lol) lost my timing a bit, but i caught on with most of their moves.

i'd say by far tonight was the best experience of all nights. We'll see if i play tomorrow (the other bass player may show).

dhag, i forgot to ask about the recording. i was late getting there on the train and i was rushing to get set up and in position for service. and after service i was rushing because i was getting a ride home from my pastor, so i didnt get to ask anyone about it. i'll definitely try to incquire about it tomorrow.

[uriahsmusic]

...well....the first thing that I would do is what most of the people I have worked with do, and what I do!.....There is song time...10%....then there is development time...90%...what?

Ya see if you spend the rest of your days learning songs...(in the Black Church)...all you will find out is that you just wasted your time....cuz they dont read and they never play the song the same way twice!!!!

So

...GET YOUR EAR...AND UNDERSTANDING OF CHANGES AND HOW THEY SOUND TOGETHER!!!!!!

As long as they dont expect a specific bass line done exactly correct you will rule.....

In essence ....Get your chops down....get your own interpretation of grooves and changes down....so that every where you go you will blow them away!

HOW?.....Practice with people , cd's and tapes...but dont learn any of the songs....Roll off the eq on the bass for the song and just play till you drop...(develop your mind and your ideas)....also by stressing your muscles by playing for a prolonged period will help your longevity...it may hurt at first...but each time you do it , you will be able to play longer...(no pain...no gain!)

I suggest that you find a small church to play at...that needs you....and doesn't have a waiting line...

I have never played at a really large church outside of a concert and dont have feel for all of the rules and nonsense!

this has been a public service announcement by URIAH!

And I never play in an unfriendly environment.....So I have a great time .....every time.....

Remember...10% them....90% you!

[Fingers!]

Everyone gave great tips.  I'm soaking it all in.  There is one thing I would like to throw in:
Most songs we play, I don't know them.  Everyone THINK I do, but I don't.  I follow the keys.  But I'm trying to learn them because when the keys aren't at service, I'm stuck in the water.  But anyway,

When the music starts moving, I just jump in and follow.  When I think a change SHOULD be coming thru but not sure, I would actually ghost (thunk) the first note of the presumed change part and use that silence from my part to listen for what the keyboard player do.  If he stays, I stay.  If he moves, then I have to quickly corral myself to follow.  And I don't necessarily know where he's going.  Sometimes, I would thunk that second note as well to see where he lands.  Most of the time it works, sometimes not.  But nobody seem to know that I'm doing this...but the keyboard player and the drummer.

[floaded27]

i feel u uriah. but for me learning songs is a bit different. i never learn the song by following the bass player note for note. i break down the structure of the song and i'll determine the chord changes. 1) this structure of the song doesnt change even if you play the song differently, repeat different parts, etc. so i have the basis of the song. 2) this helps me better identify those chord changes when i hear them (developing my ear) especially with different musicians playing. #2 is a major part because since different organists/keyboardists have different playing styles and chord voicings, you may have an easier time identifying the chord changes with one guy as opposed to another (my personal experience playing this week). Then i explore different ways to play the bassline sometimes staying in tune with the real bass player or just exploring in my own direction (or sometimes combinations of both). so even thought the songs arent played the same way everytime, if i at least have the structure of the song, i have a feel of what to do. But like fingers! says learning the songs is kinda  a must if you dont want the organist/keyboardist to be your crutch. (especially when you have an unreliable one)

update for saturday....
since it was "Official Day" at our jurisdictional spring conference (combined with the fact that it was saturday) the main bass player was there so i didnt play today, but the service was off the hook. and i took in a lot spiritually as well as musically.

[Quebass86]

Floaded, keep the fight my brother...you have experienced alot this week and I believe God is preparing you for bigger and better things. alot of what you talked about I experienced in my 3rd year I am in my 8th now and I still have issues every now and then 

One of the things I always do if I don't know a song or am playing with different musicians is ask what is the key, are you making any modulations and what is the progression? After listening to the song the 1st time through I try to pick out the changes and follow the progession and then ease myself in there...as Uriah said and others have said many times, training the ears is key.....I too record my practices with the choir and service..even if I may never play the songs again I still have something new to my list....you never know, I may want to play one of the songs and let the other musicians join in....the keys and organist don't always have to decide what song is played!