How do you gel with other musicians?

[Virtuenow]

Hi, how do you play along with other musicians.  I am a beginner keyboard player and I am used to playing alone.  During a special service at church another musician came and played the organ while I was on keyboard.  He wanted us to play along together --but I'm not quite sure how you play with other keyboard/organ players.  It ended up working somehow; eventhough I was powerhoused by the booming organ sometimes.   

I noticed at other churches they have multiple keyboard/piano/organ players (sometimes all three!).  How do they do it?  Does one person play more melody, another just soft chords, and another the lead on piano; or do they all play chords/similar keying, or what?

Lastly, a guitar guy has been coming to church and playing lately.  At first I thought he was going to be stuck up like so many musicians I meet in person (they don't want to help anyone), but he was completely down to earth and willing to give direction.  I practiced certain  progressions for congregational songs, but they do not gel with the style & progressions he uses.  He does not speak the theory language (not yet, hehe).  I use more minor chords as my mentors on LGM suggest for congregational songs, but he uses alot of major chords- and 6's.  I still haven't figured it out.  Moreover, I have not figured out how to gel with a guitarist.  I know I don't want to play exactly the same chords as him, but to those who play with a guitarist, please offer up some advice.  I would love to be able to play with other musicians in the future (and without clashing).

PS, I know the question has probably been asked before, but I can't formulate a good search for this one.  Please direct me to any relevant posts if possible!

[musallio]

when I practice, I sometimes play midi files (most of which are piano sounds)..Whilst that is playing, I play the organ sounds or horns or pad voices over thator change between the voices depending on the song.

Normally when I do that, it's alot of runs from the 1 in a higher octave & going back to the 5. Or running from the 5 to the 3..& some bounces inbetween.

It all really depends on how you interpret the music....& having listened to lots of music does help because you have an idea of how / what you ought to sound like & the question then is: Can you play to sound like that?

I specifically enjoy using the Bottleblow , ReedOrgan, chiffon lead & TenorSax sounds to play over the piano, but again, it depends on the song & the atmosphere you want to create..


I hope all this makes sense & goes some way to helping ya.

[Mysteryman]

Im assuming this guitar player is playing rhythm guitar and not lead. Sometimes when alot of musicians get together they have trouble playing together. A part of playing together with more musicians means playing less or more simplified. Each person needs to know their role. Piano or organ player doesnt really need to play bass "lines". In my opinion, the organ and rhythm guitar some what hold the same function. They provide the foundation for the music. Lead guitar and piano some what hold the same function playing melody, scales, and fillers. If you have a third key player that person mostly plays filler lines. When ever some one switches their role someone else has to flip roles to keep a full sound.

If the guitar player is using major chords you should be also or he needs to play the same type chords your are playing. The only other option is relative chords and extensions. You dont have to worry about that as a beginner though.

[betnich]

Got one word for you....Voicing.

Think of it like a layer cake.... depending on your 'ingredients' the more you have, the less densely you have to play...

Melody instrument (sax, trumpet, lead guitar, organ, RH, extra synth) to do fills and such....'icing on the cake' (not too much of that, think of an over-decorated wedding cake)

Choir/solo - call/ response. This can take up a lot of musical acreage, and is usally most important in a church setting, so if you play for these vocals you'll have to simplify.

Organ/piano RH - more chords, probably inverted or open voicing (split the chord up w/LH).
Try not to be in the same octave as the other keyboard player. You can trade on lead/echo lines and solos.

Organ/piano LH/ rhythm guitar - harmony. These should agree, or at least not 'clash' with each other.
If you want to do a Am7 chord, just tell the guitarist to do a C6 (they're the same chord, LOL)
If your guitarist can do higher jazz voicings, that's good.

Bass on the bottom. If you have a bass player do chords with your LH, let them do the bass lines, they'll appreciate it.
Otherwise you and the organ player can fight it out.

Drums to support it all...

[Virtuenow]

Im assuming this guitar player is playing rhythm guitar and not lead. Sometimes when alot of musicians get together they have trouble playing together. A part of playing together with more musicians means playing less or more simplified. Each person needs to know their role. Piano or organ player doesnt really need to play bass "lines". In my opinion, the organ and rhythm guitar some what hold the same function. They provide the foundation for the music. Lead guitar and piano some what hold the same function playing melody, scales, and fillers. If you have a third key player that person mostly plays filler lines. When ever some one switches their role someone else has to flip roles to keep a full sound.

I'm not sure what kind of guitar he is playing (or if I will even know the difference).  I know it is not bass.  I will have to ask him.  I know I couldn't play the bass line b/c he was playng a differnt bass line and they kinda clashed b/c he has a majorish sound to his playing while mine was a minor-type sound.
 
Thanks your advice is helpful overall.  I look forward to playing with other musicians- and I think I understand my role better.  I ended up playing some runs and filler chords when I played with the organist.  He enjoyed it- and so did I b/c I didn't knwo I could do that.   

If the guitar player is using major chords you should be also or he needs to play the same type chords your are playing. The only other option is relative chords and extensions. You dont have to worry about that as a beginner though.

Yeah, especially since I don't know what you're talking about.  Just wait until I grow up!

when I practice, I sometimes play midi files (most of which are piano sounds)..Whilst that is playing, I play the organ sounds or horns or pad voices over thator change between the voices depending on the song...

I specifically enjoy using the Bottleblow , ReedOrgan, chiffon lead & TenorSax sounds to play over the piano, but again, it depends on the song & the atmosphere you want to create...

I think what you are saying is to play along with my cd's and find my place by practicing runs and different styles & sounds of playing?  If that is what you are saying, it sounds good to me.  I can add this as a segment in my practice routines

[jjjoe]

when you have more than one keyboardist or organ or gutair I would follow what PJ Morgan would say play less as possible. what I mean is the Keyboardist or pianist is the leader of the band so what they have to do is play off of you. you set the foundation of the service or choir but If you have more than one keyboardist you talk with the othere musician and ask him or her do you want to play the foundation of the song and I play the fill ins or I can play the foundation and you can play the fill in also if you have a bass player and a lead gutair then you play in spots meaning the bass is playing the root of the song and the lead gutair is playing the fill in so I would just play in spots.

hope this help

[Mysteryman]

I'm not sure what kind of guitar he is playing (or if I will even know the difference).  I know it is not bass.  I will have to ask him.  I know I couldn't play the bass line b/c he was playng a differnt bass line and they kinda clashed b/c he has a majorish sound to his playing while mine was a minor-type sound.

Rhythm and lead guitar are a styles of playing on the same instrument. Your chords should be formed from the bass line of one or the other.

[under13]

Thats a great question, and I agree with all the replies.

For me it depends. I play the organ, so what I do is "pad" or play riffs and maybe a run, when there int much going on. If you are the piano player then depending on the song, you might be the leader. Then you can do what you do and everybody else can follow. On a lot of worship songs I'll just do a lot of fill ins, instead of always playing the melody. Sometimes less is more. When you have a crazy piano player, you dont have to follow him note for note, trying to keep up with his crazy runs. It will make you all sound better if you just lay back and keep it simple.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWc0k8Aur9c

in this clip I was playing the organ, there was a piano player and an acoustic guitar player. (We also have horns abnd a bass player, but they werent there.) So I layed back for most of the song and just played filler notes and pads. If I were to a whole lot of runs and stuff it would probaly clash with what the guitar and piano player was doing. I'm new to playing with a band too, but I observe and dont get caught up in the music or what the other players are doing. And if I do get out of line, one of the band members will let me know.

Like others said, you cant play bass notes when there is a bass player, You cant play guitar riffs when there is a lead guitar player. You can listen to a cd and listen out for the part each instument plays.  Its not fair to the other musicians,  when you play all over thier part.

Also, When playing with someone, you all have to be on the same page. Whoever is the lead musician, is responsible for making sure the entire band knows what they are doing. I'm sure you noticed that some musicians will give hand signals and head nods etc. Depending on what you guys do, you might wanna get togather and make some hand signals, so everybody knows whats going on. In the clip below, is a perfect example. Also you gotta listen out for what the other band members do, so that you know what they are gonna do before they even do it. So communication is key. you guys have to have a band practice.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iCTzX6WAnNs

I hope this all helps

[themidiroom]

Good stuff here.  After you've been playing for a while with bands or groups, it becomes second nature.  If I'm playing with unfamiliar musicians, I assess their style and get in where I fit in.  If they are laid back, then I play a bit more to fill up the space.  If they have a more busy style, then I keep it light.  It's all about playing appropriately and tastefully.  I did a gig once with this keyboardist and he played loud and a lot of stuff.  I was like, you got it buddy!  I'll just stand back and make the most of it.

[under13]

  It's all about playing appropriately and tastefully.

Thats a whole 'nother thread. Some guys just dont know when to hold back and when to let go. You know, the guys that think evey service is a Jam session, plays so loud that your ear drum is about bust, plays chords and then looks at everybody to see thier reaction....let me stop

[themidiroom]

Thats a whole 'nother thread. Some guys just dont know when to hold back and when to let go. You know, the guys that think evey service is a Jam session, plays so loud that your ear drum is about bust, plays chords and then looks at everybody to see thier reaction....let me stop

Good point.  Well there's this thing called professionalism and folks need to get it.

[csedwards2]

4 words

Do more of it.

To play with a band, play with a band, ya dig. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

[Metronome]

Just practice....its kinda hard to simulate a whole band.........get some of ya boys and just play together............then you'll learn their tendencies so you'll know when to push or fall back

[themidiroom]

4 words

Do more of it.

To play with a band, play with a band, ya dig. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

Unless you're one of those cats that can do something the wrong way for 30 years and be cool with it.   

[csedwards2]

Unless you're one of those cats that can do something the wrong way for 30 years and be cool with it.   

I think I have encountered that before.

[musallio]

I think what you are saying is to play along with my cd's and find my place by practicing runs and different styles & sounds of playing?  If that is what you are saying, it sounds good to me.  I can add this as a segment in my practice routines

Yeah

Like today, I played about 6 midis on my keyboard (i got from here & other sources )
Most of them are plain piano, so I was just padding with the organs..

Some of them (especially Mr Tolbert's, have many intruments already, so I play very lightly/ just fill in the small blanks..)...

Listening to some music has also helped me understand what themidiroom & under13 were taking about..Now when I'm trying to play over some piece, there are 2 things I'm looking at (1 at a time):

1st: How others can sound.
2nd: How I should sound if the others choose to play in a certain way (like themidiroom has said already)..


Now I should be ready to apply this in a real life situation like U already are VN

[Tiptip357]

Thats a whole 'nother thread. Some guys just dont know when to hold back and when to let go. You know, the guys that think evey service is a Jam session, plays so loud that your ear drum is about bust, plays chords and then looks at everybody to see thier reaction....let me stop

So true...I love playing but I refuse to add to the noise. A lot of musicians that I have come across are good, but they would rather be heard than to blend with one another. During practices I make an effort to push the idea of listening to one another and blending...if someone is more comfortable with fillers then I'll play melody (vice versa) The problem was that at one church I used to go to, the minister of music was appointed that position by default because at that time nobody would...He's a great drummer but he spent most of his time on the organ and for some reason he wasn't listening to what he was playing and it was loud and a hot mess!!! I don't know if it was because I am a female or if it was because I was the youngest but he wasn't trying to hear me out so instead I had to get someone who worked the sound to turn him down and blend. lol....I will not play over a group of musicians just to make noise and a couple of times I did just that...I got up and sang from the congregation.

[divinemusician]

I am new too and when I do play at church it is just me and the drmmer so I have to play bass lines however when I get ready to start fully playing (on Sunday's) there will be a very skilled bass player, an organ player and a drummer, as a beginner how do you play filler chords, or fully two hand chords. I know most worship songs (that I listen to) the keyboardist always leads..

[Mysteryman]

I am new too and when I do play at church it is just me and the drmmer so I have to play bass lines however when I get ready to start fully playing (on Sunday's) there will be a very skilled bass player, an organ player and a drummer, as a beginner how do you play filler chords, or fully two hand chords. I know most worship songs (that I listen to) the keyboardist always leads..

You can start with your simple scale chords. You should be able to play the same thing in both hands. If you dont know your inversions you will have a hard time finding two handed chords to play.

Me personally I think the musicians should have a progression established for songs unless its free flow. I have to flow the other musician whether Im on keys or organ. He doesnt like following. lol

[divinemusician]

so just for clarity when you see musicians playing in two hands they are playing chords but one is the inversion of the other... just asking..