another unwise choose in God's name..

[LaylaMonroe]

...and because the girl died.

Then you must have missed my point.  

My point was that if this same story, including the part about the girl dying, occurred 2000 years ago, and was recorded in the Bible, we would not be calling it outrageous.

I agree...God is the same as He's always been....

But my thing is this....
(and I know none of us were there to confirm this)

But if God tells me that He is gonna heal my child.
Then He will heal my child.
Now if I don't hear God say that to me.

Then I'm taking my baby to the doctor.
I'm not gonna wait to "hear" from God.
I'm gonna use the common sense that he blessed me with.
Now if, in the midst of me using this good sense....
He tells me to stop going to the dr.
And I mean HE really tells ME.....
Thats a different story....

Yeah, me too.

And I'll take it a step further, if y'all will allow me to be really transparent...

If that were me, and God told me He would heal her and there's no need to take her to the doctor... chances are, I'd still take her to the doctor.

I'm sorry y'all.  I'm just being honest.  I believe God is able, and I trust Him.  But, I don't have the kind of faith it takes to let my comatose child chill out in my house waiting on God to heal her.

[T-Block]

Then you must have missed my point.  

My point was that if this same story, including the part about the girl dying, occurred 2000 years ago, and was recorded in the Bible, we would not be calling it outrageous.

Oh, my bad.  Sorry!!!

[Redy2bUsed]

Then you must have missed my point.  

My point was that if this same story, including the part about the girl dying, occurred 2000 years ago, and was recorded in the Bible, we would not be calling it outrageous.

Yeah, me too.

And I'll take it a step further, if y'all will allow me to be really transparent...

If that were me, and God told me He would heal her and there's no need to take her to the doctor... chances are, I'd still take her to the doctor.

I'm sorry y'all.  I'm just being honest.  I believe God is able, and I trust Him.  But, I don't have the kind of faith it takes to let my comatose child chill out in my house waiting on God to heal her.

IRT to the bold....

*slowly raises finger*

I'm with you sis....
I would have to "physically" hear His voice.
Remember we talked about that sis.....lol

[LaylaMonroe]

IRT to the bold....

*slowly raises finger*

I'm with you sis....
I would have to "physically" hear His voice.
Remember we talked about that sis.....lol

Yep, we sho did talk about that...

[jphat]

B3Wannabe

I have read most of your post and is convinced. Having faith is practical! Its stronger than medicine! I would also agree, they can only jail is if they did not feed her, clean her, blah blah blah.

My mother just past.

Now six months ago, a choice to allow surgery was in MY hands. I used my "faith" in prayer to seek direction. Through fasting and prayer, the Lord gave me the O.K. But, HAD GOD SAID NO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>believe me, I would have said no. NO was something I wanted anyway. The surgery that God directed me on help her stay alive another 5 months verses 3 days. 

The key issue if choice. If someone has the choice to abort a baby, I certainly have a choice to use faith and not be punished. Public opinion may rebuttal, but the God's will is what we answer too.

NOW ON THE OPPOSITE END

I  reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy hope God directed them to go that route, and not a foolish decision and call it faith.  People make so called "faith choices" when God's nowhere in it! So have to be careful to verify its God.

[sjonathan02]

IRT to the bold....

*slowly raises finger*

I'm with you sis....
I would have to "physically" hear His voice.
Remember we talked about that sis.....lol

*gives Redy dap while he raises his finger* I'm right wit'chall. 

[pastor rob]

think about this. was the parents neglectful towards their child? what is our duty to our children that God has lent us? also, if their answer is that God said he would heal their child, he did.

[godsbassman2000]

My comment relates more to this thread, rather than what the course of action the parents took.
Why is it within the Christian community, someone ALWAYS has the right answer for EVERYONE else?

Why can't those who believe in divine healing act accordingly, and those of US who believe in God's healing through the doctor do the same?

Can we have different beliefs regarding this and other matters? Or is it a one size fits all type of faith?

Why do we work? Can't God provide as He did back in the day?
Why do secure our home, cars, buy other types of protection? Can't God protect us?

Arguments can be made about these matters as well.
Where does it end?

[lordluvr]

My comment relates more to this thread, rather than what the course of action the parents took.
Why is it within the Christian community, someone ALWAYS has the right answer for EVERYONE else?

Why can't those who believe in divine healing act accordingly, and those of US who believe in God's healing through the doctor do the same?

Can we have different beliefs regarding this and other matters? Or is it a one size fits all type of faith?

Why do we work? Can't God provide as He did back in the day?
Why do secure our home, cars, buy other types of protection? Can't God protect us?

Arguments can be made about these matters as well.
Where does it end?

I like the basis of your thought process.  Even Paul addressed the issue of different "levels" of faith when he discussed the eating of meats offered unto idols.  I haven't read every response in this thread, so I can't speak to whether or not anyone has stated their reply in such a way that it gives the feeling that thier answer is THE answer for the collective.  The responses I have read don't give me that impression.  However, I admit, my attention span is a little short, so I normally skim through posts of threads that I'm late to.

[under13]

My comment relates more to this thread, rather than what the course of action the parents took.
Why is it within the Christian community, someone ALWAYS has the right answer for EVERYONE else?

Why can't those who believe in divine healing act accordingly, and those of US who believe in God's healing through the doctor do the same?

Can we have different beliefs regarding this and other matters? Or is it a one size fits all type of faith?

Because "What My Pastor says is right, and everbody else is wrong. And if you dont believe what I beleive then you are going to....."

I think thats the mentality of many christians. I think Denominational pride is one of the reasons why some of us think like that.

I also think stretching of the word to fit your beliefs has something to do with that mentality.

[BigFoot_BigThumb]

IRT to the bold....

*slowly raises finger*

I'm with you sis....
I would have to "physically" hear His voice.
Remember we talked about that sis.....lol

Now this has happened to me.  I promise.  In 1988, I was driving home from work about 11:00 one night and this guy was right next to me on the interstate.  I was all alone and I thought nothing of it until I heard a voice say "slow down" and I kinda played it off.  I was in disbelief.  Then the voice said much louder again "SLOW DOWN!"  As SOON as I touched my brake and slowed down, that car that was just beside me spun out across four lanes of traffic from one side to the other and back again and hit the wall.  Now if that wasn't God, what was it?  I am being dead serious about this.  Now until I hear these parents say the same thing, then I think that the family was God's way of talking to them.       

[divinemusician]

It seems like to me a lot of people don't have faith. Yes I too go to the doctor but I really go just to honestly get a doctors note for work, not because I need medicine to "heal" me. We as Christians talk a good faith walk but half of us, don't have faith in nothing but the things we can physically do ourselves. Yea we preach about Isaac and Jacob, Daniel and the Lion's Den, Job, etc. but would we have the faith these men had in the Bible. Do we really trust God beyond all measures. I read one person say, if they pray and God don't answer "quick" enough for them then they not waiting they just taking their child to the doctor. WOW! God dont answer they not waiting. But we always quoting God is an on time God YES HE IS...

Don't get me wrong, I don't see nothing wrong with going to the doctors after all we do pay for health insurance. However when we put more faith in things, people, etc more than God there is a problem. We don't see God move like back in the day because we don't believe. Yes our mouths say a lot but our faith isn't much of nothing. Honestly most Christians only access their faith when the bills are due, and they baby need shoes( yall know the story). The Bible says some things ONLY come by fasting and praying. If by Jesus stripes we were healed then why we don't stand on that. It didn't say by taking or sending doctors your way, but by the stripes of JESUS. (ya most going to say i am too spiritual, call it what you want). The Bible also said if you are sick or if sick is among you take them or you to the ELDERS OF THE CHURCH and let them lay hands on them. I honestly know personal storys where the DOCTORS have given up on the person, told the family to prepare for the dealth. BUT GOD!! See their faith was not in the Doctors, etc but they knew a man names JESUS, who died for them, and they prayed, fasted and believed in Gods Word. And they were healed. Still living. One of the persons is my Pastor (shout out Elder Dr. N.R. Burney, Sr.). We had a man name Elder Matthews (in our church org.) that he was in touch with God so that everbody took their sick ones to him and he would pray and seek direction from God, and if he didn't lay hands on the sick you knew to prepare for a funeral but if he layed hands on them, my God they would become well. His faith with God and His walk with God. Elder Matthews had that power, the power Jesus said He would leave unto us.

I agree wholeheartedly with B3W. How strong is your faith? We can argue up and down on these parents choices but without facts we can't say to much.
1. We don't know if God or what God said to them (so case is closed) - for all we know this child's dealth could have been a test of the parents faith unto God (WE DON'T KNOW) -- grant it I would not want my parents faith to be tested with my life on the line, however just as Isaac and Jacob. WE don't know their relationship with God before or after this child was conceived, born, lived, and died. We can't judge them. (Isaac relationship before and after Jacob, or the daughter who past away and the father cried out unto God and the danzel (i know i am probably wrong in the spelling but you know) girl arised and became ALIVE!! I believe this little girl who passed away is ALIVE in Jesus right now and because of her Parents Faith SHE WAS MADE WHOLE).

2. The father probably started CPR because as a cop, that just kicks in, trust me I know!! I am in Law Enforcement. We had a mother get short of breath at church and as much as i sing every Sunday God is a healer, this and that, I found myself kicking into first responder mode when she fell short of breath, however, i remember MY GOD IS ABLE and I went into prayer and praising God. Needless to say that mother is doing well. (Even with her, the doctors wanted to cut her foot off and she told them, HER GOD IS ABLE and 20 years later that same foot, she is walking on better than me)
 
I urge everybody to step back and look at our faith. One question is it where it needs to be? WE put more faith in our cars, then God! Now that is involuntary manslaugter of the Spirit! Are you guilt?

[LaylaMonroe]

It seems like to me a lot of people don't have faith. Yes I too go to the doctor but I really go just to honestly get a doctors note for work, not because I need medicine to "heal" me. We as Christians talk a good faith walk but half of us, don't have faith in nothing but the things we can physically do ourselves. Yea we preach about Isaac and Jacob, Daniel and the Lion's Den, Job, etc. but would we have the faith these men had in the Bible. Do we really trust God beyond all measures. I read one person say, if they pray and God don't answer "quick" enough for them then they not waiting they just taking their child to the doctor. WOW! God dont answer they not waiting. But we always quoting God is an on time God YES HE IS...

Don't get me wrong, I don't see nothing wrong with going to the doctors after all we do pay for health insurance. However when we put more faith in things, people, etc more than God there is a problem. We don't see God move like back in the day because we don't believe. Yes our mouths say a lot but our faith isn't much of nothing. Honestly most Christians only access their faith when the bills are due, and they baby need shoes( yall know the story). The Bible says some things ONLY come by fasting and praying. If by Jesus stripes we were healed then why we don't stand on that. It didn't say by taking or sending doctors your way, but by the stripes of JESUS. (ya most going to say i am too spiritual, call it what you want). The Bible also said if you are sick or if sick is among you take them or you to the ELDERS OF THE CHURCH and let them lay hands on them. I honestly know personal storys where the DOCTORS have given up on the person, told the family to prepare for the dealth. BUT GOD!! See their faith was not in the Doctors, etc but they knew a man names JESUS, who died for them, and they prayed, fasted and believed in Gods Word. And they were healed. Still living. One of the persons is my Pastor (shout out Elder Dr. N.R. Burney, Sr.). We had a man name Elder Matthews (in our church org.) that he was in touch with God so that everbody took their sick ones to him and he would pray and seek direction from God, and if he didn't lay hands on the sick you knew to prepare for a funeral but if he layed hands on them, my God they would become well. His faith with God and His walk with God. Elder Matthews had that power, the power Jesus said He would leave unto us.

I agree wholeheartedly with B3W. How strong is your faith? We can argue up and down on these parents choices but without facts we can't say to much.
1. We don't know if God or what God said to them (so case is closed) - for all we know this child's dealth could have been a test of the parents faith unto God (WE DON'T KNOW) -- grant it I would not want my parents faith to be tested with my life on the line, however just as Isaac and Jacob. WE don't know their relationship with God before or after this child was conceived, born, lived, and died. We can't judge them. (Isaac relationship before and after Jacob, or the daughter who past away and the father cried out unto God and the danzel (i know i am probably wrong in the spelling but you know) girl arised and became ALIVE!! I believe this little girl who passed away is ALIVE in Jesus right now and because of her Parents Faith SHE WAS MADE WHOLE).

2. The father probably started CPR because as a cop, that just kicks in, trust me I know!! I am in Law Enforcement. We had a mother get short of breath at church and as much as i sing every Sunday God is a healer, this and that, I found myself kicking into first responder mode when she fell short of breath, however, i remember MY GOD IS ABLE and I went into prayer and praising God. Needless to say that mother is doing well. (Even with her, the doctors wanted to cut her foot off and she told them, HER GOD IS ABLE and 20 years later that same foot, she is walking on better than me)
 
I urge everybody to step back and look at our faith. One question is it where it needs to be? WE put more faith in our cars, then God! Now that is involuntary manslaugter of the Spirit! Are you guilt?

Do you have any children?

[divinemusician]

No, I have a Godson who, I raised like I had him. He has been through some serious illness where I knew it was nobody but God who healed him. His mother didn't care enough to take him to the "doctors" and I couldn't put him on my insurance. I leaned and depended on God. (I was 19 years old)

Don't get it wrong, I am not saying nothing is wrong with the docs. But when they over ride our prayer, faith, etc. Something is wrong. And I don't think I need kids to "experince" what you guys are talking about. I have had plenty of people I have cared about to the extreme being dealthly ill or sick. Love is Love whether it is a mothers love, fathers love, etc. You never want to see somebody you love suffer, etc. So I can understand having a child, friend, family member, whom ever be sick and depending on your faith in God.

[B3Wannabe]

No, I have a Godson who, I raised like I had him. He has been through some serious illness where I knew it was nobody but God who healed him. His mother didn't care enough to take him to the "doctors" and I couldn't put him on my insurance. I leaned and depended on God. (I was 19 years old)

Don't get it wrong, I am not saying nothing is wrong with the docs. But when they over ride our prayer, faith, etc. Something is wrong. And I don't think I need kids to "experince" what you guys are talking about. I have had plenty of people I have cared about to the extreme being dealthly ill or sick. Love is Love whether it is a mothers love, fathers love, etc. You never want to see somebody you love suffer, etc. So I can understand having a child, friend, family member, whom ever be sick and depending on your faith in God.

Indeed.

My mother was admitted to the hospital about two weeks ago. She was very near death and didn't know it. She has diabetes and has never taken her medicine. Never changed her diet, so it just built up in her legs. Anyway, the doctors now say that she needs a new kidney. As her son, I'm divided between donating mine and believing in God. I'm pretty sure I'm a match. If I believe in God and my mother dies, I would probably feel like I should've donated my kidney. What do I do? Remember, I've said that if I were put in the same situation as these parents, I would go to the doctor. Now, what do I do when my mother is sick? I haven't even discussed this with my wife yet!...Ok. I'm going to discuss it now. Right after I hit "Post".

[under13]

One day many of us will become children again, and our chldren will take care of us, so we should think about how we would like to be treated, when we are once again children and can not care for ourselves. If you were very sick and elderly and unable to speak yourself, how long  would you want them to wait on God, before you go get checked out? or would you just wanna suffer and possibly die?  Just a thought.....

[LaylaMonroe]

No, I have a Godson who, I raised like I had him. He has been through some serious illness where I knew it was nobody but God who healed him. His mother didn't care enough to take him to the "doctors" and I couldn't put him on my insurance. I leaned and depended on God. (I was 19 years old)

Don't get it wrong, I am not saying nothing is wrong with the docs. But when they over ride our prayer, faith, etc. Something is wrong. And I don't think I need kids to "experince" what you guys are talking about. I have had plenty of people I have cared about to the extreme being dealthly ill or sick. Love is Love whether it is a mothers love, fathers love, etc. You never want to see somebody you love suffer, etc. So I can understand having a child, friend, family member, whom ever be sick and depending on your faith in God.

Yeah, I have godchildren too.  It's not the same, trust me.  You said that "love is love," but I assure you there isn't a parent in this world who will agree with that.  Most parents will tell you they didn't even know this new dimension of love existed until they had children.  I grew up loving my parents and my sisters, and could not imagine my life without them.  I've been "in" love romantically, and I love my Savior... none of that is the same love a mother (or father) feels for his/her child.  So no, it's not the same at all.

Anyway, that doesn't really matter anyway.  I wasn't trying to imply that if you don't have children, you don't have a voice on this issue.

Your comment came across as very self-righteous and very judgmental.

Refer back to what Godsbassman2000 said.  You're entitled to handle things your way, and others are entitled to handle things their way.  That doesn't make you right and others wrong.  And your post DEFINITELY came across as though you believe anyone who doesn't handle it the way YOU WOULD is wrong.

And for the record, I agree with B3W too.  I just don't believe it's cool to knock the folks that think differently.  VERY uncool.

[LaylaMonroe]

Indeed.

My mother was admitted to the hospital about two weeks ago. She was very near death and didn't know it. She has diabetes and has never taken her medicine. Never changed her diet, so it just built up in her legs. Anyway, the doctors now say that she needs a new kidney. As her son, I'm divided between donating mine and believing in God. I'm pretty sure I'm a match. If I believe in God and my mother dies, I would probably feel like I should've donated my kidney. What do I do? Remember, I've said that if I were put in the same situation as these parents, I would go to the doctor. Now, what do I do when my mother is sick? I haven't even discussed this with my wife yet!...Ok. I'm going to discuss it now. Right after I hit "Post".

Hey, I'll be praying for you and your mom.  I know you live under God's divine direction, so I know you'll do the right thing, according to the will of God.

[B3Wannabe]

Well, I've talked to my wife, all she said was, "It's risky."

I know she feels like this: I love your mother and all, but I'm not willing to lose you!

I know I can convince her that God will protect me, because she says "I have more faith than her."

...So, I understand what LaRue is saying about the "love" being different. I love my mother, but if my wife and my mother both needed a kidney, I would give it to my wife.

[divinemusician]

Yeah, I have godchildren too.  It's not the same, trust me.  You said that "love is love," but I assure you there isn't a parent in this world who will agree with that.  Most parents will tell you they didn't even know this new dimension of love existed until they had children.  I grew up loving my parents and my sisters, and could not imagine my life without them.  I've been "in" love romantically, and I love my Savior... none of that is the same love a mother (or father) feels for his/her child.  So no, it's not the same at all.

Anyway, that doesn't really matter anyway.  I wasn't trying to imply that if you don't have children, you don't have a voice on this issue.

Your comment came across as very self-righteous and very judgmental.

Refer back to what Godsbassman2000 said.  You're entitled to handle things your way, and others are entitled to handle things their way.  That doesn't make you right and others wrong.  And your post DEFINITELY came across as though you believe anyone who doesn't handle it the way YOU WOULD is wrong.

And for the record, I agree with B3W too.  I just don't believe it's cool to knock the folks that think differently.  VERY uncool.

well I am truly sorry you feel that way. That is not what I meant. I am nothing of "self-righteous and very judgmental." I just gave my thoughts. Reguardless that is what I believe, if you agree you do if you don't you don't.

And about the children situation, so yo mean to tell me adotive parents can't feel the same love as though if they had the child on their own? just a question. You are intitled to believe how and what you want, that is the great thing about God He gave us choices. I feel as Christians we don't have the same faith or we don't obtain the faith we should have. That is my thoughts. It is what it is, I am not trying to argue or have bad blood with Nobody.

B3W I will be praying for you, as with the mother at our church who I talked about earlier. She needed a heart transplant. However, she told the Doctors NO! They told her she wont live, she said God has the last say. Needless to say yet again, she is alive and well. This mother (Mother Griffin) comes from the old school, I look up to her and admire the faith she has. My faith is built from her testimony and testimony of my own. I encourage you to continue to believe in God, He will lead and guide you in all ways of truth. (of course you know that, haha)