chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice

[diverse379]

You know I believe it does make a difference how you practice your chords and your scales your progressions etc

I believe from a  pure learning your instrument stand point practicing your scales and  chords around the cycle is much more effective then practicing them chromatically

chromatics have a place and i will get to that but i want to explore the benefits of practicing around the cycle

• you hjave to use voice leading or you have to understand how the chord is formed in order to hit it so it approximates real playing and when you know the chord enough to hit it from a fourth a way or a fifth a way you reall y know how to form it where as to merely go to the chord form a halfstep away that can be done from feel alone no think just fingers knowing how to move in half steps
  
  second
  most sopngs you play have some tyope of cycle movement in them so this is good for understanding the flow of most songs
  
  third and this is very important
  the cycle alows you to practice contours the keys f Bb Eb Ab Db have similar contours
  
  F# B E A  have similar countours  D and G have simiar contours
  
  you cant really appreciate this if you practice your C scale then your Db scale then Your Eb scale
  
  now Am I saying dont practice your chords chromatically no I am not
  
  Chormatically practicing has its benefits too I just think from a learning perspective you will get more mileage if you learn how to play around the cycle
  
  one example of what i am talking about is this
  if you wanted to practice a 2-5-1 if you started in c the chords are Dmin7 G7 Cmajor 7
  
  when you go to f Your chords are Gmin C7 and F7'
  
  well your F has the same notes as your D practically
  your G min is the same as your G7 except for the Bb
  and your C is the same except for the Bb
  
  so you have similar chords and similar shapes to practice right after one another and this happens all up the keyboard
  
  lets face it chrmatically is easier then the cycle and we tend to favor it for that reason but the keyboard is a thinking instrument as well as a tactile one so balance what you do

When do I recommend chromatic practice when learning to modulate

[4hisglory]

HHmmmm.....interesting.   I've learned that you need to practice your chords around the circle of 5ths, AND chromatically descending.  Wh???  Because when you move  your chords chromatically descending, it is like a substitution for the circle of 5ths.

Ex: Circle of 5ths
D......2
G......5
C.......1

Ex:  Chromatically
D.......2
Db......5 (tritone sub for G)
C.......1

[B3Wannabe]

Practicing in 4ths or 5ths is better/easier because the chords, progressions and scales don't change that much. There are just minor changes between a 4th or 5th interval. I practice everything this way now, but I also practice moving chords and scales along an arpeggio...meaning taking a chord like a CMaj7, breaking it up into its fundamental parts and using a totally different chord or scale along those notes. I've found that this presents some interesting ideas.

For instance...

Key Cb
(A Maj3 interval broken into a arpeggio, descending along a CMaj7)

C-E-G-B \ B, Eb, G, B, E, Ab, C, E
Cb-Eb-Gb-Bb \ Eb

or

Key G
(Maj chords played along a CMaj7)

Ab-C-Gb \ EMaj, GMaj, Bdom, CMaj
A-E-G \ GMaj

written out

Ab-C-Gb \ B-E-Ab, D-G-B, B-Eb-Gb-A, C-E-G
A-E-G \ B-D-G

You get the picture though....I'm still learning this though.

[Junyah]

Thanks for the practice tip.   I have been playing for a while now and most of the songs we do are in Db, Eb, Ab, Bb, C, D, F G but I tend to transpose the other scales to the ones I know.  I can play the scales but never took time to learn the chords in the other scales.  This tip is a a huge "Ahh-Haa" for me.  I am re- commited to PRACTICING now and not just practicing songs.

[diverse379]

Practicing in 4ths or 5ths is better/easier because the chords, progressions and scales don't change that much. There are just minor changes between a 4th or 5th interval. I practice everything this way now, but I also practice moving chords and scales along an arpeggio...meaning taking a chord like a CMaj7, breaking it up into its fundamental parts and using a totally different chord or scale along those notes. I've found that this presents some interesting ideas.

For instance...

Key Cb
(A Maj3 interval broken into a arpeggio, descending along a CMaj7)

C-E-G-B \ B, Eb, G, B, E, Ab, C, E
Cb-Eb-Gb-Bb \ Eb

or

Key G
(Maj chords played along a CMaj7)

Ab-C-Gb \ EMaj, GMaj, Bdom, CMaj
A-E-G \ GMaj

written out

Ab-C-Gb \ B-E-Ab, D-G-B, B-Eb-Gb-A, C-E-G
A-E-G \ B-D-G

You get the picture though....I'm still learning this though.

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I am reading but it is like i am dislexic or something i cant get it I will have to look at this again on sunday after i am not under pressure to learn new songs but i like what i think you are saying

[T-Block]

I say chromatically is the best way, for me to practice.  I don't know about anybody else, but anytime I go chromatically, my mind has to shift gears from key to key.  If you just practice in 4ths and 5ths, then you usually going to keys that are not that much different to play in than the key you just left.  If you go chromatically, then you have to keep shifting positions, causing you to focus more on your technique.  That is a better way to learn in my opinion.  I am not knocking on anybody else who feels differently, as long as you learning and getting better, it's all good!!!

[musallio]

I am really interested to know what others think about this topic.

Personally, I prefer going chromatically because it is easier & yes, it's a big shift from 1 feel to a completely different feel.
Also, most songs modulate in halfsteps (I've rarely heard songs modulating in 4ths or 5ths!).

It is only of late that I've started to practice modulating in varied directions & steps..

But I say viva to 1/2 steppings..& even wholestep modulations..

[4hisglory]

I prefer chromatically at first, because its easiest becasue you really don't have to think about what the notes are in the next chord.

But if you really want to know if you know the chords, moving in whole steps or thirds will really tell you.

[chevonee]

I say chromatically is the best way, for me to practice.  I don't know about anybody else, but anytime I go chromatically, my mind has to shift gears from key to key.  If you just practice in 4ths and 5ths, then you usually going to keys that are not that much different to play in than the key you just left.  If you go chromatically, then you have to keep shifting positions, causing you to focus more on your technique.  That is a better way to learn in my opinion.  I am not knocking on anybody else who feels differently, as long as you learning and getting better, it's all good!!!

CO-SIGN 100%!!!!!!

[diverse379]

who is resurecting all of these old posts?


what do I feel two years later?


I think I like whole steps because of the real world application of connecting chords via passing chords

I also like moving in circle of fifths without voice leading because it trains you for
solo piano
(playing chords in different registers quickly from one part of the piano to the other )


chromatic is always a great way to start learning a chord


so i really say do all of them and do them all well


maybe start moving your chords chromatically
then in whole steps
then in the circle

the same with transposing an entire song

cromatically then in whole steps
then in the cycle

catch me in two more years you may get a different answer

[musallio]

I like what I'm reading here so far

[diverse379]

I say chromatically is the best way, for me to practice.  I don't know about anybody else, but anytime I go chromatically, my mind has to shift gears from key to key.  If you just practice in 4ths and 5ths, then you usually going to keys that are not that much different to play in than the key you just left.  If you go chromatically, then you have to keep shifting positions, causing you to focus more on your technique.  That is a better way to learn in my opinion.  I am not knocking on anybody else who feels differently, as long as you learning and getting better, it's all good!!!

I think that is exactly why circle of fifths practice is good for song transposition especially for beginners

because you are only changing a chord or two

it is easier for them to approach the concept of transposing

but on the contrary sometimes moving a chord by the circle is harder than moving it chromatically

[Fenix]

I prefer moving in the circle of fifths. There is a gradual change in positions that i think is very comfortable. Moving from C to C# entails a very drastic change in chord voicings and positions that may not be too comfortable for the beginner and would cause frustrations. IMO of course.

[musallio]

I prefer moving in the circle of fifths. There is a gradual change in positions that i think is very comfortable. Moving from C to C# entails a very drastic change in chord voicings and positions that may not be too comfortable for the beginner and would cause frustrations. IMO of course.

Considering that looking at a chord ito Eb & then Ab, it might be too intimidating for a beginner or even an an advanced player who's just starting out to play in all keys.

Yes, there is a nice feel when moving in 4ths, but all in all, the key is to be able to do it in all ways, back & forth & in all inversions..That's when even one's playing & level of confidence will shoot off to the next level..