T-Block or Anyone

[Mrandrew]

I have a question I use these two chords in a composition I'm working on, however when going from the first chord to the second chord the key changes. I have done this in other composition and can figure out what key to solo in, but my question is what am I doing? I figure a little theory is in need.

These are the chords I'm talking about.

C/EGBD
C/FAbCEb

Could this be from listening to too much jazz?

[Fenix]

Nah, the key does not change. From what i am seeing, the second chord is an F minor 7. This is a very common way to end a song and i do it a lot. I play the IV, then the IVmin7 and then back to the I. To solo over this, i guess you can use the Fmin scale, but not too much. I usually just play an arp of that chord so i don't have to go too far away from the C scale.

I hope i am not wrong.

[under13]

Nah, the key does not change. From what i am seeing, the second chord is an F minor 7.

Where is there a 7 in the second chord?

[T-Block]

I have a question I use these two chords in a composition I'm working on, however when going from the first chord to the second chord the key changes. I have done this in other composition and can figure out what key to solo in, but my question is what am I doing? I figure a little theory is in need.

These are the chords I'm talking about.

C/EGBD
C/FAbCEb

Could this be from listening to too much jazz?

CM7 chord followed by an Fm7 chord w/5th in the bass.  You're not necessarily changing keys if u just playing those 2 chords back to back.  You could potentially be changing from major to it's parallel minor depending on what u do after the 2nd chord.

Where is there a 7 in the second chord?

The Eb man:  F-Ab-C-Eb = Fm7  Don't let the C in the bass throw u off.

[under13]

The Eb man:  F-Ab-C-Eb = Fm7  Don't let the C in the bass throw u off.

Ok I see. I didnt know you had to flat the 7th when its a minor chord. I thought that you just had to flat the 3

[Fenix]

Ok I see. I didnt know you had to flat the 7th when its a minor chord. I thought that you just had to flat the 3

When its a Min 7th chord you HAVE to flat the 7th. Its what gives it that min 7th sound.

Try playing this progression:

LH/RH

C/ Eb G Bb

F/ Ab C Eb

G/ Bb D F

Those are all minor 7th chords and you'll notice it has an R&B-sih kinda sound to it.

[Mrandrew]

CM7 chord followed by an Fm7 chord w/5th in the bass.  You're not necessarily changing keys if u just playing those 2 chords back to back.  You could potentially be changing from major to it's parallel minor depending on what u do after the 2nd chord.

The Eb man:  F-Ab-C-Eb = Fm7  Don't let the C in the bass throw u off.

See this is why I need to learn some theory. However, I knew you guys would be of help as always.

[under13]

So if someone says to play an  Fm chord add the 7th, do I still flat the 7. If so, how do you say it if you dont want the 7th flatted?

[Fenix]

So if someone says to play an  Fm chord add the 7th, do I still flat the 7. If so, how do you say it if you dont want the 7th flatted?

Frankly i have never heard a minor chord with an extension that did not involve flatting the 7th. I am not at my board so i cannot even know how it sounds but i don't think it will sound very good.

[Fenix]

Oh and here is a FANTASTIC website for chords and scales and stuff.

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

[T-Block]

So if someone says to play an  Fm chord add the 7th, do I still flat the 7. If so, how do you say it if you dont want the 7th flatted?

Any kind of minor 7th chord implies that the 7th is also flatted.  If you don't want the 7th flatted, then you have to indicate it.  I'll show u using your example:

Fm7 = F minor chord + 7th flatted (F-Ab-C-Eb)

FmM7 = F minor chord + 7th not flatted (F-Ab-C-E)  *u would call this an F minor/major 7th

[Fenix]

Any kind of minor 7th chord implies that the 7th is also flatted.  If you don't want the 7th flatted, then you have to indicate it.  I'll show u using your example:

Fm7 = F minor chord + 7th flatted (F-Ab-C-Eb)

FmM7 = F minor chord + 7th not flatted (F-Ab-C-E)  *u would call this an F minor/major 7th

Thats why i need to go to music school.

[under13]

Thanks

[seemunny]

Ol' Theory-block, Johnny on the spot, on the case again, pretty much answered it! lol

So my answer will basically serve as at least partial "verification" of what he already said:

I have a question I use these two chords in a composition I'm working on, however when going from the first chord to the second chord the key changes. I have done this in other composition and can figure out what key to solo in, but my question is what am I doing? I figure a little theory is in need.

These are the chords I'm talking about.

C/EGBD
C/FAbCEb

Could this be from listening to too much jazz?

Well first of all, i don't think you can listen to TOO much Jazz! lol...Cause you can never learn it all in a lifetime! lol

However, it seems like you simply played a I-IV (1-4) progression, using the 5 instead of the root as the bass note on the IV chord.

ex. 1: I-IV (1-4) progression with the 1 (or the root) as the bass on the IV chord:

I chord____(CM9) C / E-G-B-D
IV chord___(Fm7) F / F-Ab-C-Eb

ex. 2: I-IV (1-4) progression with the 5 as the bass on the IV chord:

I chord____(CM9) C / E-G-B-D
IV chord___(Fm7) C / F-Ab-C-Eb

As you can see, the IV chord is an Fm7, and the 5 of Fm7 is C.

In ex. 2, which is how YOU played it, you used C (or the 5) as the bass note instead of the normal F (or the 1 or the root).

Using the 5 as the bass is a (move or option) that is often used in music, and can sound nice and be quite effective, if used right, as you have evidently already discovered.

[T-Block]

Using the 5 as the bass is a (move or option) that is often used in music, and can sound nice and be quite effective, if used right, as you have evidently already discovered.

Oh yeah, most people use moves like this for pedal tones.  I'm really starting too experiment with pedal tones.  I just keep my finger on one, and go through as many chords and runs that can fit with it, tastefully of course.  I think my church seems to really like it.  I'll post a recording one day of me using the pedal tone technique.

[Fenix]

Oh yeah, most people use moves like this for pedal tones.  I'm really starting too experiment with pedal tones.  I just keep my finger on one, and go through as many chords and runs that can fit with it, tastefully of course.  I think my church seems to really like it.  I'll post a recording one day of me using the pedal tone technique.
[/quote

I can't wait.

[musallio]

Nah, the key does not change. From what i am seeing, the second chord is an F minor 7. This is a very common way to end a song and i do it a lot. I play the IV, then the IVmin7 and then back to the I. To solo over this, i guess you can use the Fmin scale, but not too much. I usually just play an arp of that chord so i don't have to go too far away from the C scale.

I hope i am not wrong.

Good stuff Fenbox

Oh yeah, most people use moves like this for pedal tones.  I'm really starting too experiment with pedal tones.  I just keep my finger on one, and go through as many chords and runs that can fit with it, tastefully of course.  I think my church seems to really like it.  I'll post a recording one day of me using the pedal tone technique.

I've been experimenting with pedal tones here & there ever since I learnt about this from T-Block's post from the "Taking It Out: Part I"..I'm glad T brought it up again, else I was going to!

Any kind of minor 7th chord implies that the 7th is also flatted.  If you don't want the 7th flatted, then you have to indicate it.  I'll show u using your example:

Fm7 = F minor chord + 7th flatted (F-Ab-C-Eb)

FmM7 = F minor chord + 7th not flatted (F-Ab-C-E)  *u would call this an F minor/major 7th

& that's a RAPP!!

Ol' Theory-block, Johnny on the spot, on the case again, pretty much answered it! lol

So my answer will basically serve as at least partial "verification" of what he already said:

Well first of all, i don't think you can listen to TOO much Jazz! lol...Cause you can never learn it all in a lifetime! lol

However, it seems like you simply played a I-IV (1-4) progression, using the 5 instead of the root as the bass note on the IV chord.

ex. 1: I-IV (1-4) progression with the 1 (or the root) as the bass on the IV chord:

I chord____(CM9) C / E-G-B-D
IV chord___(Fm7) F / F-Ab-C-Eb

ex. 2: I-IV (1-4) progression with the 5 as the bass on the IV chord:

I chord____(CM9) C / E-G-B-D
IV chord___(Fm7) C / F-Ab-C-Eb

As you can see, the IV chord is an Fm7, and the 5 of Fm7 is C.

In ex. 2, which is how YOU played it, you used C (or the 5) as the bass note instead of the normal F (or the 1 or the root).

Using the 5 as the bass is a (move or option) that is often used in music, and can sound nice and be quite effective, if used right, as you have evidently already discovered.

U'r a pleasure to have C$$--The stuff U post is really good--sometimes..hehehehe

[Mrandrew]

Ol' Theory-block, Johnny on the spot, on the case again, pretty much answered it! lol

So my answer will basically serve as at least partial "verification" of what he already said:

Well first of all, i don't think you can listen to TOO much Jazz! lol...Cause you can never learn it all in a lifetime! lol

However, it seems like you simply played a I-IV (1-4) progression, using the 5 instead of the root as the bass note on the IV chord.

ex. 1: I-IV (1-4) progression with the 1 (or the root) as the bass on the IV chord:

I chord____(CM9) C / E-G-B-D
IV chord___(Fm7) F / F-Ab-C-Eb

ex. 2: I-IV (1-4) progression with the 5 as the bass on the IV chord:

I chord____(CM9) C / E-G-B-D
IV chord___(Fm7) C / F-Ab-C-Eb

As you can see, the IV chord is an Fm7, and the 5 of Fm7 is C.

In ex. 2, which is how YOU played it, you used C (or the 5) as the bass note instead of the normal F (or the 1 or the root).

Using the 5 as the bass is a (move or option) that is often used in music, and can sound nice and be quite effective, if used right, as you have evidently already discovered.

Thanks for sharing that info. Don't know much about theory (gotta learn) I just play what I hear at times and never really know why I did that.

The good thing is when I do this it's usually not hard to find the scale to do solo's or runs.

[seemunny]

Good stuff Fenbox
I've been experimenting with pedal tones here & there ever since I learnt about this from T-Block's post from the "Taking It Out: Part I"..I'm glad T brought it up again, else I was going to!

& that's a RAPP!!

U'r a pleasure to have C$$--The stuff U post is really good--sometimes..hehehehe

Thanks O' Great one!...I'm still learning as i try to make sense out of some of these questions. So if i stumble on some of this stuff, i can take sound correction, so that i can gain even more understanding of this theory game, like Mr. Theory-block himself! lol

Mr. Teacher-block sets such a high standard, that you have no choice but to learn & grow! lol

[seemunny]

U'r a pleasure to have C$$--The stuff U post is really good--sometimes..hehehehe

And Great Musallio, i see that "sometimes!" grrrr!