Musicians Getting paid on sundays

[sjonathan02]

Colossians 3:16 (King James Version)
 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Gr psalmos, a twanging with the fingers (in LXX & N.T., song sung to the harp) < psallein, to twitch, pluck



Just something to think about!

Nice!! I was thinking about this scripture; but, I'm in class working on a project and couldn't look it up.

[musallio]

Ok here's my opinion:

Whether a player is paid or not to play at church, that should not be a major issue.
What should be of primary importance is that the person has a heart of worship & service.
This can be established from careeful observation of a few signs or past records.

I wouldn't expect & don't expect to be paid by my home church.
But if I should be expected to play far away or something like that & the fuel is alot, I would request to be compensated for the transport costs in good faith because things should never come to a point where I feel I'm being abused by people in a situation where I can prevent that type of abuse/ misuse.

But man, you should dedicate your service to God 1st..
You will know whether the church can afford to give more than the $25 or not..if not, & you want more, there are two things you should do:

i) ask yourself if you are still happy to play or you are only happy to play if they pay you more.

ii) If you're not happy, the best thing is to speak with those in charge & tell them what you think, & whether you intend to step down or not.
Best thing to do if you want more $ but can't get is to leave or better still but more painful is to surrender more & tell yourself you will give your services joyfully for that lil amount & continue playing there.

We have had paid musicians play for us & we made sure that they were always happy.
I did observe 1 thing though..the 1st 1 had a heart of service, so it was really sad when he had to leave. The other one just heard that we needed a player & offered his services, but was only concerned about getting as many cheques from us as he could..So I was never happy with his appointment & was quite relieved when his contract was terminated.
I still respect him as a player & inasmuch as he needed cash, I don't think 1 should go out proactively seeking to make maximum profits from churches.

[kodacolor]

I think this post illuminates an issue in the churches' attitudes (towards the saints),and imo is Ungodly. Most of the churches I'm aware of have this want,want,want mentality.Want good ,faithful musicians,practice,tithes,attend,special coolections,and on and on and on. DEMANDING,DEMANDING,DEMANDING.But,for the most part totally unaware or uncaring.It's one thing to expect LORD to provide,totally another thing to just expect things to fall out of the sky.Sort of like a "welfare mentality".it's defeatist-you need to encourage and cultivate people to lead them,and yes Virginia;might costs a few shekels.JESUS gave the best example-when HE commissioned and sent HIS disciples,HE footed the bill.Levites were paid,worker is STILL worth his hire.I play unto the LORD ,it's HIS gift to me that I'm returning,HE always looks out for me.Those who think they are puttin' one over will answer to HIM!!!

To the first bold part I say...huh?  How is being faithful to the ministry, practicing, tithing (where you keep the majority of your money, attending church (and you should be there anyway since you're playing on Sunday), special collection (like for a new building if all the musicians and the choir are crammed in a corner like they are at my church) demanding?  Those are thinks you should be doing anyway!  If you're not faithful to the ministry then why even be in it.  You may be at practice but you wont' be in church on Sunday then they have to scramble to find a replacement.  Why wouldn't you practice?  Chances are if you don't practice then you're giving God crap cause chances are that's what it's gonna sound like.  Why is attending church demanding?  If you're getting spiritually fed it shouldn't be a chore for you.  And if you're in the music ministry you have to attend church anyway.  I know at some churches special collections can get out of hand but, luckly, I haven't been to a church that has done that.  At my last church they said they needed money to get the roof fixed, we gave and they got the roof fixed.  They needed money to pad the pews so we weren't sitting on hard wood, we gave and they padded the pews.  They did what they said they were going to do with the money.  Same for the church I'm at now.  Special collections are optional anyway so if you think they're pushin' bull then don't give.

I agree with the second bold part though.

[Fenix]

Nice!! I was thinking about this scripture; but, I'm in class working on a project and couldn't look it up.

As a potential parent, i am worried about this.

[kodacolor]

You mentioned my name in your post, but didn't address anything I said.  I simply stated that I disagreed with your example of the principle stated in Luke.  "shall men give into your bosom" does not mean that you will receive from the person or organization you gave to, contrary to your assertion.  That's all I'm saying.

As for the rest of your argument, you again come assuming that we are being fleeced and conned into giving, instead of being taught that giving is a ministry and an extension of a benevolent heart.  In my case, and I'm sure many others here, you are incorrect.

COSIGN!!!!!

[sjonathan02]

As a potential parent, i am worried about this.

 

[under13]

Fenix, You still at work?

[Fenix]

Fenix, You still at work?

I finally snapped and got internet at home. 

[kodacolor]

Just wondering, why must a musician be paid in order to be faithful to the music ministry?  Why must a musician wait until green in flung in their face in order to do the basics?  IMO if a musician didn't ask to be paid he/she shouldn't expect the church to read his/her mind. 

[Fenix]

I'm playing for my church and i KNOW they have no intent to pay me. To me it is a privilege.

Just wondering, why must a musician be paid in order to be faithful to the music ministry?  Why must a musician wait until green in flung in their face in order to do the basics?  IMO if a musician didn't ask to be paid he/she shouldn't expect the church to read his/her mind. 

Go to bed missy.

[kodacolor]

I'm playing for my church and i KNOW they have no intent to pay me. To me it is a privilege.

Go to bed missy.

But i'm not tired

Still if a musician knows he/she is going to do a half done job from the jump they shouldn't even join.  Just sayin'.  That's not giving God glory.

[divinemusician]

AMEN!!!... Thing is I PROMISE whenever I go to a church with a horrible choir and or music dept... As soon as I get over the music department and start training the choir I PROMISE the pastor that the church will come around and people will start coming... It's just a principle, people like music and they will come, and sadly the word can be boring, but if that choir and music is off the richter they will still pack a church...

All I'm saying as a musician who has spent time to get my craft where it is, and I don't play the radio when it comes to the choir, I think I SHOULD be payed... And get this, I SHOULDN'T have to ask, it should just be standard.  I expect people (And most of the time they do) to ask me up front, "how much do you charge" and then I tell them...

Im telling ya'll and call it a prophecy or whatever, but these churches that aint paying WILL NOT have a musician.  They will continue to be empty and cold, but the churches that will try to be fair and work with the musician, and don't mind paying WILL grow... And really it's already happening everywhere in America.
Maybe I'm bitter, could be... But I refuse to watch these others drive up in their Caddys and wearing fur on the money that they split up from church, and listen to me play and help drive the service, and shout to my music, and they not give me anything... That is one grade that I'm out of.  I'm not James Hall, but I aint Drunk Lenny NEITHER!!!

I disagree with the bold... As I am becoming a better musician, I dont look for my churhc to pay me nor will I ask. I don't care about a check... I just want to worship and priase God on the keyz... that is all I want... I want to help the choir reach their goal and tap into a place they have never been because they didn't have a MM that cared enough bc all he cared about was a PAY CHECK...

There still are some musicians that don't care about the money but do it for the love of music and the love of God... would we turn down a check no probably not but I would not make it a standard etc. Take care of God's business and he will take care of yours.. you wont have to beg, seek or ask for it but He will draw ppl to take care of your every need. That goes both ways as a musician and a church!

If you wont play because they dont pay then that is non you... rethink what you doing it for... and besides if you get all your pay checks on Earth... what will you get in HEAVEN? just a thought

[musallio]

Fenix, You still at work?

hehehe, I was asking myself the same question

I disagree with the bold... As I am becoming a better musician, I dont look for my churhc to pay me nor will I ask. I don't care about a check... I just want to worship and priase God on the keyz... that is all I want... I want to help the choir reach their goal and tap into a place they have never been because they didn't have a MM that cared enough bc all he cared about was a PAY CHECK...

There still are some musicians that don't care about the money but do it for the love of music and the love of God... would we turn down a check no probably not but I would not make it a standard etc. Take care of God's business and he will take care of yours.. you wont have to beg, seek or ask for it but He will draw ppl to take care of your every need. That goes both ways as a musician and a church!

If you wont play because they dont pay then that is non you... rethink what you doing it for... and besides if you get all your pay checks on Earth... what will you get in HEAVEN? just a thought

I agree with you.
But I think the situation the bishop was mostly referring to is the case where you offer services to a church other than your home church (I stand to be corrected though:\)
Ethically speaking, especially for those who have studied music, the churches should pay them, whether it it their home church or not (I'm talking from an observer's view).
It is important that churches that seek your services do not exploit you/ your generosity to offer your services for less than their true value/ even for free. On the flip, it is equally important that the musician doesn't go to a church simply because he wants to make a living--the primary purpose should be to serve the Lord.

The only reason I second the idea of churches to pay their musicians accordingly is because churches are administered by people & it is indisputable that a musician plays a major role in both entertaining (spiritually) & uplifting the flow of the service.
But I'm only saying this in the case where the musician is not a member of that church.

I also think churches have done very little/ have overlooked the idea of training/ grooming people from within..yes, it might & will take time, but the benefits are great.
So so long as churches don't do that, they should pay the price & stop complaining.
These are the same words I've been saying to our church leadership when they were complaining about how expensive the previous guy was.
Hopefully they pay more attention & support some initiatives to train some people who we see have the passion & will most likely be with the church for some years to come!!!
By training people, that's a lump sum investment you make & saves you future stress & can potentially give you a large pool of players to choose from & they wouldn't be really expecting compensation after all that's been done for them.

[Beautiful Nerd]

 I thank yall for your comments I am not hurt or sad by the comments all I am saying is we do play for the glory and honor of god please don't get me wrong at all please....We love music to the fullest and if you got a organ player that plays thier and she get paid over 450.00 dollars if she's there or not and I just don't think that's fair for us we are there just like the she is and we are at every practice I mean everything....and we only getting 25.00 a month that's not even mimu. wage....But I see what yall are saying thanks alot some of yall helped me understand alot of things and all I can do is pray and ask god for some understanding.....yall agree that , that will be the best thing for me to do.....Hit Me Up Be Blessed.

[musallio]

I thank yall for your comments I am not hurt or sad by the comments all I am saying is we do play for the glory and honor of god please don't get me wrong at all please....We love music to the fullest and if you got a organ player that plays thier and she get paid over 450.00 dollars if she's there or not and I just don't think that's fair for us we are there just like the she is and we are at every practice I mean everything....and we only getting 25.00 a month that's not even mimu. wage....But I see what yall are saying thanks alot some of yall helped me understand alot of things and all I can do is pray and ask god for some understanding.....yall agree that , that will be the best thing for me to do.....Hit Me Up Be Blessed.

Cool man.
If I was in your case, given this last scenario you've given, I would find the $25 an insult, so I'd rather ask them to put it in the church coffers on my behalf than have the $$ reach me..But don't just do that yet, make sure that the practice doesn't hinder your walk with God & the spirit in which you render your services..The $25 could also come in handy at times.it can even be a sign of big things to come, who knows

[cas10a]

There still are some musicians that don't care about the money but do it for the love of music and the love of God... would we turn down a check no probably not but I would not make it a standard etc. Take care of God's business and he will take care of yours.. you wont have to beg, seek or ask for it but He will draw ppl to take care of your every need. That goes both ways as a musician and a church!

I think what you said here in bold, is the issue...It goes both ways...

Some churches have the funds to pay their musicians, but if the musician doesn't ask, the church just won't give or will give sparingly...even if the musician has gone above and beyond.

I can't speak for other musicians, but I have played for many churches without payment.  The issue was not about just playing on Sunday morning without payment...after a while, it got to a point, where we had numerous rehearsals where I had to teach songs (preparation time to teach during week), Special Events, Special Services, etc.,.  At some point it does starts to hit your pocket when this happens; and for a church not to recognize that they should compensate fairly for services rendered and expenses incurred when they have the means to do so...is  IMHO.

[bishop2]

hehehe, I was asking myself the same question
I agree with you.
But I think the situation the bishop was mostly referring to is the case where you offer services to a church other than your home church (I stand to be corrected though:\)
Ethically speaking, especially for those who have studied music, the churches should pay them, whether it it their home church or not (I'm talking from an observer's view).
It is important that churches that seek your services do not exploit you/ your generosity to offer your services for less than their true value/ even for free. On the flip, it is equally important that the musician doesn't go to a church simply because he wants to make a living--the primary purpose should be to serve the Lord.

The only reason I second the idea of churches to pay their musicians accordingly is because churches are administered by people & it is indisputable that a musician plays a major role in both entertaining (spiritually) & uplifting the flow of the service.
But I'm only saying this in the case where the musician is not a member of that church.

I also think churches have done very little/ have overlooked the idea of training/ grooming people from within..yes, it might & will take time, but the benefits are great.
So so long as churches don't do that, they should pay the price & stop complaining.
These are the same words I've been saying to our church leadership when they were complaining about how expensive the previous guy was.
Hopefully they pay more attention & support some initiatives to train some people who we see have the passion & will most likely be with the church for some years to come!!!
By training people, that's a lump sum investment you make & saves you future stress & can potentially give you a large pool of players to choose from & they wouldn't be really expecting compensation after all that's been done for them.

Yes that is what I was saying.... If you are going to a church that you play for then that's a little different because you are there..(As far as the churches being empty thing I was saying)

But again, if you want me to play, you will pay me, member or not.  Thats ME and my take on it, and I have never had a problem finding somewhere to play, and like now I have to sit down and choose where I want to play and will I and my administration fit at that church, but people do want me, and I do expect to be paid.  This is my job, and I do it as a job within ministry, God has blessed me to do this and get paid, and I thank God for it.  I stand to defend musicians everywhere, and some of us musicians have been used and abused and bamboozled and we will not take it anymore.  And for some churches my attitude is you can use me, but your gonna pay me...

[csedwards2]

Yes that is what I was saying.... If you are going to a church that you play for then that's a little different because you are there..(As far as the churches being empty thing I was saying)

But again, if you want me to play, you will pay me, member or not.  Thats ME and my take on it, and I have never had a problem finding somewhere to play, and like now I have to sit down and choose where I want to play and will I and my administration fit at that church, but people do want me, and I do expect to be paid.  This is my job, and I do it as a job within ministry, God has blessed me to do this and get paid, and I thank God for it.  I stand to defend musicians everywhere, and some of us musicians have been used and abused and bamboozled and we will not take it anymore.  And for some churches my attitude is you can use me, but your gonna pay me...

Amen broham

[divinemusician]

I thank yall for your comments I am not hurt or sad by the comments all I am saying is we do play for the glory and honor of god please don't get me wrong at all please....We love music to the fullest and if you got a organ player that plays thier and she get paid over 450.00 dollars if she's there or not and I just don't think that's fair for us we are there just like the she is and we are at every practice I mean everything....and we only getting 25.00 a month that's not even mimu. wage....But I see what yall are saying thanks alot some of yall helped me understand alot of things and all I can do is pray and ask god for some understanding.....yall agree that , that will be the best thing for me to do.....Hit Me Up Be Blessed.

Do you need the money? This may sound hard but stop concerning yourself with OTHER FOLKS BUSINESS!! so what she gets paid 45.00 whether hse is there or not. Do you know why that is? Do you know her money situation? Do you know her contract? Do you know their verbal agreement? All you do know is what God told you to do and what He has bless you with!! So do what God says do, if you need the money then you ask your father (God) what to do. But IN EVERYTHING GIVE THANK FOR THIS IS THE WILL OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS CONCERNING YOU!!!!!! (Key parts: Concering you)

I guess I am getting tired of musicians all ways looking to the left and right wondering why this musician gets this and that that... we don't know and we shouldn't really care as long as we doing what God has told us to do, God will take care of us. Who cares if she gets 45.00 this could be your test thta even when a "unfaithful" musican gets more will you trust me, will you bless me, will you praise me, will you give thanks unto me even in this. God could be ready to move in your life to where you get 7 times that 45.00 but you concerning yourself with somebody else pay check. I don't understand why this is a problem now when before you didn't even get paid. 

[cas10a]

Do you need the money? This may sound hard but stop concerning yourself with OTHER FOLKS BUSINESS!! so what she gets paid 45.00 whether hse is there or not. Do you know why that is? Do you know her money situation? Do you know her contract? Do you know their verbal agreement? All you do know is what God told you to do and what He has bless you with!! So do what God says do, if you need the money then you ask your father (God) what to do. But IN EVERYTHING GIVE THANK FOR THIS IS THE WILL OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS CONCERNING YOU!!!!!! (Key parts: Concering you)

I guess I am getting tired of musicians all ways looking to the left and right wondering why this musician gets this and that that... we don't know and we shouldn't really care as long as we doing what God has told us to do, God will take care of us. Who cares if she gets 45.00 this could be your test thta even when a "unfaithful" musican gets more will you trust me, will you bless me, will you praise me, will you give thanks unto me even in this. God could be ready to move in your life to where you get 7 times that 45.00 but you concerning yourself with somebody else pay check. I don't understand why this is a problem now when before you didn't even get paid. 

The figures are "$450.00" and "$25.00"...just to put it in perspective...lol