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Author Topic: Organists that don't do bass pedals  (Read 20984 times)

Offline themidiroom

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2008, 11:57:27 AM »
sounds like I'm not the only "bigfoot" ha ha  try it with triple EEE's -pretty close to combat boots
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Offline diverse379

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2008, 08:52:58 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1epNpXd59Y

virgil fox killing the pedals!!


HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaa

that is bananas that is what I am talking about
mr fox just played with his feet

what many of us couldnt do with our hands


however what he did can really only be done on a pipe organ

because what is going on is that he is coupling the manuals to the pedals

so you have some very high register flutes and horns being played through the pedals

and then you can blend in some quint stops which creates the sound of actual intervals which is why it sounds like he was playing chords

since his feet were a third apart most of the time you ended up with a lot of seventh chords even though he was only using two feet


simply amazing
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Offline under13

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2008, 08:55:57 PM »
HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaa

that is bananas that is what I am talking about
mr fox just played with his feet

what many of us couldnt do with our hands


however what he did can really only be done on a pipe organ

because what is going on is that he is coupling the manuals to the pedals

so you have some very high register flutes and horns being played through the pedals

and then you can blend in some quint stops which creates the sound of actual intervals which is why it sounds like he was playing chords

since his feet were a third apart most of the time you ended up with a lot of seventh chords even though he was only using two feet


simply amazing


The Hammond RT3 had higher pitched stops for the pedel as well as a 32' stop. But I dont think it sounds all that great.

Offline diverse379

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2008, 06:08:23 AM »
The Hammond RT3 had higher pitched stops for the pedel as well as a 32' stop. But I dont think it sounds all that great.
we have an rt3 at my church as well as a pipe organ

and I notice the rt3 was really supposed to be a high church organ
with the curved pedal board
and the several buttons for the pedals
I have yet to see one where those buttons worked
but they were like presets
combinations of drawbars stops that could make the pedals sound like the manuals
I am guessing here someone correct me if I am wrong


but nothing sounds like a pipe organ

for what a pipe organ does and the types of playing you would do one one

they cant be beat,.


I only play ours for certain hymns and classical genre selections

but there was one day I did  yolanda Adams song on the pipe organ and it sounded really great.



with the pipe organ you have to play with both feet

because the attack is not instant it is a little delayed
like a slow string attack

so you have to have the other foot playing almsot a milisecond before you need it in order to get it to be there when you need it.

my church actually has one of virgil foxes touring organs
it is called black beauty
my church has nick named it Big Bertha

it has five big amplifiers which stand a little over six feet tall and are about 7 feet long

plus a plethora of speakers

with an organ of this size and magnitude it is almost imperative to play decent pedals
with two feet
because often you are required to play the melody with the pedals
so your hands can play counter lines

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Offline under13

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2008, 08:58:13 AM »
So its not a real pipe organ? So why does it have so much of a delay? Is it the organ or the acoustics? I've never played one with actual pipes, but I would hate to have to play one with a delay.

If I were you I'd be on that hammond every sunday :D

Offline diverse379

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2008, 10:52:27 AM »
So its not a real pipe organ? So why does it have so much of a delay? Is it the organ or the acoustics? I've never played one with actual pipes, but I would hate to have to play one with a delay.

If I were you I'd be on that hammond every sunday :D






all pipe organs have delays because they use air which is forced through a pipe
the longer pipes are wider and longer
and require more air
if you think about a garden hose when you take the gun off the hose
the water just pours out but if you put your finger over the opening you get a faster stream of water

well the bigger pipes have slower moving air because it is a bigger wider longer pipe
so the delay on the manuals is almost imperceptable
but it is still there
but the delay on the pedals is a little more noticable.


so can you play uptempo shouts on a pipe organ
not really
but anything is possible


which is why my (fake pipe organ) and all allen and roger organs have delays


because real pipe organs have delays if you wanted to imitate a real pipe organ you have to program in a delay
otherwise a true pipe organ player will feel he was playing a cheap imitation

for example those theatre organs have no delay at all
and a true pipe organ player will never look at them like they are real

my organ although it uses amplifiers is an organ that today would run a few hundred thousand dollars
precisely because they really made the stops sound like a real pipe organ

in its day it was a very close approximation of a real pipe organ
some of the stops dont sound that good





but with todays technology we could probably update it for about 70 thousand dollars
but I seriously doubt that will happen

actually I do play the hammond every sunday
but not by choice more because the MOM cant play the pipe organ and I think she doesent like the attention I get when I get a chance to play it.

they are different instruments and require a different touch
many of the voicings you can play on a hammond would sound terrible on the pipe organ,

however the techniques that we learn for pipe organ sound fine on the hammond. because the hammond was originally trying to replicate a pipe organ
(they did a terrible job at that)


I find that the more time I spend on the pipe organ the easier the hammond is to play

so you would be cheating yourself out of a free education if you didnt take advantage of such an instrument if you had access to it.
like a few weeks ago I was playing a hammond at a church and started to do a two foot pedal run
and their organist who was a beast dropped his jaw
I am no beast but for that momment I was
and that came from training on the pipe organ
after a while the hammond becomes like toy in comparison

the pipe organ has 4 manuals and four banks of stops flutes reads horns and strings several 8 ft 4 ft 16 ft 2 chimes etc
plus all the couplers

it is like having an orchestra at your finger tips
you can layer horns and strings and chimes on one manual
and have another manual playe a flute and french horn duet on the solo manual
while the choir manual plays a soft string patch

then you can set the pedals to play a flute if you wanted

you are only limited by your imagination,
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Offline under13

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2008, 11:07:19 AM »
Dont have much time to respoond, but the Rodgers That I usually play has No delay at all, And its often used for uptempo stuff.

gotta run.....

Offline diverse379

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2008, 11:23:54 AM »
Dont have much time to respoond, but the Rodgers That I usually play has No delay at all, And its often used for uptempo stuff.

gotta run.....
interesting

(makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm)
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Offline themidiroom

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2008, 12:20:02 PM »
interesting

(makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm)
that's what I said.   ;D
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Offline under13

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2008, 01:13:02 PM »
interesting

(makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm)

I would guess that there is a setting that an organ tuner could change to add delay or not. Our organ is a 1970 rodgers analog. You can see it on my youtube page if you havent already.

Offline iplaytheorgan2

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2008, 01:59:16 PM »
you should never play pedals if a bass player is there you will lose many friendships with bassist lol you should learn how to work together, of course your going to be restricted in your playing thats what happens when playing in a full bandtrue organist know how to use pedals but your foot will never sound like your hand they can come close but not the same
I know just what you're talking about.  I play in sessions all the time and we have a full band at my church.  In a session you turn the pedals off or set at (3) and continue to use the pedals so you feel comfortable.  During a live setting I've learned to set them at (5) then feel and vibe with the bass player, by playing the necessary notes with him.  The only time I'll pump the bass is on dance music, if there is no bass player and if he doesn't know the songs.

I'm from NY/NJ area and we love to pump left hand bass and foot, but when playing with a band and me being a band leader and minister of music I have to restrain myself and think as ONE with the band.

God bless,
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Offline under13

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2008, 02:03:00 PM »
^^^
Good to see you back. When are we gonna get some more organ videos?

Offline diverse379

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2008, 02:26:06 PM »
I know just what you're talking about.  I play in sessions all the time and we have a full band at my church.  In a session you turn the pedals off or set at (3) and continue to use the pedals so you feel comfortable.  During a live setting I've learned to set them at (5) then feel and vibe with the bass player, by playing the necessary notes with him.  The only time I'll pump the bass is on dance music, if there is no bass player and if he doesn't know the songs.

I'm from NY/NJ area and we love to pump left hand bass and foot, but when playing with a band and me being a band leader and minister of music I have to restrain myself and think as ONE with the band.

God bless,
as a musician that has sat on both sides of the bass
keyboard and electric bass

I will admit there have been times when keyboard players have told me not to play because they wanted to play certain unique and distinct lines

I will admit to being offended but understood that since I didnt know the song I shouldnt have taken it upon myself to assume I should play on any song jus because I was there

as a keyboardist and organist
I find it arrogant to assume that because a song has a familiar pattern that you as a bass player should play I am speaking about services where there are several churches and their musicians

when  I teach choirs I generally teach according to the record I dont do a whole lot of new improviasations. 
so if the bass player is familiar with the record he should have no problem
but if he is going to switch up things sometimes this is a little annoying


lets face it bass is boss

the bass changes the whole chord
the bass is a very powerful instrument
and if you are sitting in on someone elses song or choir you should act as if you are a guest and not like you are there to steal the glory


where did that come from???????



I guess I felt that should be said.


you have bass players that come from contemporary churches
who dont have the restraint to stay in the pocket on a tradional song

and older bass players who come from a traditional church
that may not understand the contemporary genre enough to contribute effectively to a contemporary song

in these cases
you as the organist need to show the way



there were some very exceptional jazz keyboard players who still played left hand bass notes

not walking lines but the roots of the chords

this is acceptable even in the gospel arena

as long as you are not trying to walk lines while the bassist is walking lines

you should be able to play the roots of the chords you are playing

especially if you are the person who plays for that choir because you are laying out the map and frame work for the bassist to walk upon,
and within.


you may want a chromatic line descending because you are doing chord substitutions

if the bassist doesent know that he may do a circle of fifths progression instead

as the leader you should be able to get what you want
and sometimes the only way to communicate that is to demonstrate it
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Offline under13

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2008, 02:58:58 PM »
D, I have ask you, Whats up with your paragraphs? :D

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2008, 05:51:34 PM »
I agree with diverse, it's very important for the organ player and bass player to learn each others style...

I am the main organist/musical director at the church, and as a more contemporary musician, I often employ neo-soul and jazz chords in my music...

What I do is I change my style according to who is singing... If it is an older person, then I play more traditionally... I allow the bass player (who is more of a traditional type) to lead on the bass... while I play more basic chord progressions...

But if it's one of the younger saints, or if they are singing a more "up to date", contemporary song... I take control and play the bass line myself using the pedals, that way I can play more "phat, juicy" chords and runs...

It's all about staying in your lane... just because you have a bass player doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be on everything, unless he is able to successfully follow the head musician...

One thing I can't stand is a bass player who keeps playing the same exact bass line over and over, especially during congregational songs... I like to change things up and play different chords and melodies, and my bass player has got to be able to play along with me

Offline diverse379

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2008, 09:46:56 PM »
I agree with diverse, it's very important for the organ player and bass player to learn each others style...

I am the main organist/musical director at the church, and as a more contemporary musician, I often employ neo-soul and jazz chords in my music...

What I do is I change my style according to who is singing... If it is an older person, then I play more traditionally... I allow the bass player (who is more of a traditional type) to lead on the bass... while I play more basic chord progressions...

But if it's one of the younger saints, or if they are singing a more "up to date", contemporary song... I take control and play the bass line myself using the pedals, that way I can play more "phat, juicy" chords and runs...

It's all about staying in your lane... just because you have a bass player doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be on everything, unless he is able to successfully follow the head musician...

One thing I can't stand is a bass player who keeps playing the same exact bass line over and over, especially during congregational songs... I like to change things up and play different chords and melodies, and my bass player has got to be able to play along with me
you make some fantastic points

I need to start shadowing your posts


D, I have ask you, Whats up with your paragraphs? :D

I suppose I type Like I think

I should know better I have a masters degree.

Oh well it is what it is.  I suppose that is what you call poetic license
if it bothers you I will try to be more gramatically correct
but it may just cramp my style.

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Offline iplaytheorgan2

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2008, 01:09:44 PM »

lets face it bass is boss

the bass changes the whole chord
the bass is a very powerful instrument
and if you are sitting in on someone elses song or choir you should act as if you are a guest and not like you are there to steal the glory


where did that come from???????


Very well said, that's why bass players have to be listening to the organ or keyboard player's chords so the right bass notes will be placed correctly.  My husband who was a bass player, always said, "necessary application"

I hate when I'm playing a song and an arrogant bass player, who is not familiar with the song or my style, just goes in his/her own direction without even trying to flow with me.  It causes confusion in the music and then I have to say to him/her to please listen before trying to take over.
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Offline diverse379

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2008, 03:08:22 PM »
Very well said, that's why bass players have to be listening to the organ or keyboard player's chords so the right bass notes will be placed correctly.  My husband who was a bass player, always said, "necessary application"

I hate when I'm playing a song and an arrogant bass player, who is not familiar with the song or my style, just goes in his/her own direction without even trying to flow with me.  It causes confusion in the music and then I have to say to him/her to please listen before trying to take over.

ouch!

 that smarts
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Offline iplaytheorgan2

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2008, 03:29:04 PM »
ouch!

 that smarts
LOL...but it is so true.  To be a good leader you have to be a good follower
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Offline kenlacam

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Re: Organists that don't do bass pedals
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2009, 12:45:23 PM »
I am not a master of the pedals by any means, but when I started playing at this church they have a bassist, so I have to leave the drawbars up so that the organ bass does not interfere with the bass guitar. It is annoying, because I am trying to master the pedals, so I keep it at low volume...
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