9ths, 11ths, and 13ths

[HeartSoulandSpirit]

Ok, I've got a pretty good handle on 7th (dominant) and when to use them.  Usually with a IV or V leading to I.  Now I feening for more.  I understand that a 9th note is the same as a 2, however when playing the 9th when I would play a 2 (like a substitution) it doesn't really sound the same, or like I want.  The same goes for 11th which is the same as a IV.

My question is, when does anyone suggest using a 9th, or an 11th in a chord progression?  Be Blessed

[T-Block]

Regarding the 9th, you will mostly use it in 2 situations: to enhance a major chord and to replace/alter a 7th chord

Enhance a major chord

When you add the 9th to a major chord, it becomes an add9 chord.  This will make your major chord sound more "pretty" and "lush".  So, basically any time u got a major chord, u can add the 9th.  Example:

Cadd9 = C-E-G-D, E-G-C-D, G-C-D-E

Now, u pointed out that the 9th note is the same as the 2nd. Since that is true, u can also play this chord with the 9th in the position of the 2 and still have the add9 chord:

C-D-E-G, D-E-G-C


Replace/Alter a 7th chord

Any time you want to play a 7th chord, u can add the 9th and make a 9th chord.  Not only can u add the regular 9th, u can also alter the 9th.  So, u can have a b9, regular 9, or a #9.  Each option gives you a different sound.  Examples:

C9 = C-E-G-Bb-D or C-E-Bb-D

C7 #9 = C-E-G-Bb-D# or C-E-Bb-D#

C7 b9 = C-E-G-Bb-Db or C-E-Bb-Db
________________________________

CM9 = C-E-G-B-D or C-E-B-D

CM7 #9 = C-E-G-B-D# or C-E-B-D#

CM7 b9 = C-E-G-B-Db or C-E-B-Db
________________________________

Cm9 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D or C-E-Bb-D

Cm7 #9 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D# or C-E-Bb-D#

Cm7 b9 = C-Eb-G-Bb-Db or C-E-Bb-Db
________________________________

CmM9 = C-Eb-G-B-D or C-Eb-B-D

CmM7 #9 = C-Eb-G-B-D# or C-Eb-B-D#

CmM7 b9 = C-Eb-G-B-Db or C-Eb-B-Db

Notice here that each of these chords has to contain the 3rd and 7th.  The 5th can be left out if you want.  Also notice the naming of the chord when u add in an altered 9th.  It is a 7th chord with the added 9th.


O.K., now that we got the theory out the way (LOL), let's talk about specific places where you would want to use these chords.  Take the add9:

1-4-5 progression in C

C / G-C-E
F / F-A-C
G / G-B-D

now, let's play add9 chords:

C / G-C-D-E
F / F-G-A-C
G / G-A-B-D

Hear the difference between the 2?  Now, u may not want to play an add9 chord for every major chord, but you can if you want to.  Just go with whatever you are feeling at the time.

Now, let's deal with a M9.  I said ealier, u can use this chord when you play 7th chord.  In this case, I like to play major 7th chords on 1 and 4. So, let's start with a 1-4 progression:

1-4 progression in C

C / G-C-E
F / A-C-E

Now, let's play those chords as M7 chords:

C / G-B-E
F / A-C-E

Now, let's play those chords as M9 chords:

C / G-B-D-E
F / A-C-E-G

Hear the difference between all 3?  Just pick what works best for you. You don't have to play M7 or M9 chords for both, but u can if you want.  Heck, u can even mix up using an add9 and a M9 chord.  Let's do it:

1-4-5 progressions in C

C / G-C-D-E (Cadd9)
F / A-C-E-G (Fadd9)
G / G-B-D (G)

C / G-B-E (CM7)
F / A-C-F (F)
G / A-B-D-G (Gadd9)

C / G-B-D-E (CM7)
F / F-A-C (F)
G / G-A-B-D (Gadd9)

C / D-E-G-C (Cadd9)
F / A-C-E-G (FM7)
G / D-G-A-B (Gadd9)

The possibilities are endless.  Plus, you can use all 4 in the same song, that way everytime you play it will sound a little different than before.  This is how the pros can play a simple tune and never play it the same way twice, cuz u got options.


One more then I will let you work with it.  Let's deal with the dom.9 chord.  The dom.9 chord will work anytime u have to play a dom.7 chord.  I play dom.7 chords on 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6.  Dom.7 chords resolve to 4 of the chord, so let's see some examples:

1(dom.7)-4 progression in C

C / C-E-G-Bb or C / E-G-Bb or C / E-Bb (C7)
F / C-F-A (F)

Let's change that dom.7 chord to a dom.9 chord and see how it sounds:

C / C-E-G-Bb-D or C / E-G-Bb-D or C / E-Bb-D (C9)
F / F-A-C (F)

You hear the difference between the 2? Cool, now let's play these chords using an altered 9th to see how it sounds:
 
C / C-E-G-Bb-D# or C / E-G-Bb-D# or C / E-Bb-D# (C7 #9)
F / C-F-A (F)

C / C-E-G-Bb-Db or C / E-G-Bb-Db or C / E-Bb-Db (C7 b9)
F / C-F-A (F)

Hear the difference? Each one gives you a slightly different sound and mood.  You should experiment to see which ones u like and try to make your choices fit the mood u want to convey.

The same process can be applied to the other times I use dom.7 chords which are:

2(dom.7)-5 progression

3(dom.7)-6 progression

5(dom.7)-1 progression
 
6(dom.7)-2 progression

Now, keep in mind that some of those progression up there end with minor chords.  Those are 3(dom.7)-6, 6(dom.7)-2, and 2(dom.7)-5.  So, just experiment to find what sounds you like, and if u need more help just ask.

[T-Block]

I know that seemed like a lot of information to be thrown at you at once, but if you take your time and practice these simple movements and put them into practice, you won't even look at these chords as dom9 or M7, it will just be a chord you use all the time.

Most of the time, the only thing going on in my head during a performance is 2-5, 7-3-6, 4-5-1, etc. If I had to stop and think, "I need a m9 chord here, I need M7 chord here", I could never get through the performance.  Since I've practiced these chord movements over and over, I instinctively know what chord will give me the sound I want at any given time.  It will come in time with you or anyone else as well, just keep practicing.

[sjonathan02]

Aight, TB, when someone said this before, I kinda laughed; but, now, I think they were on to something.


You SHOULD make a DVD, bruh. Real Talk.


I say this because, if you're going to take the time to write out all of this information and break it down the way you do, a DVD (for those of us that are visual/aural) would be FIRE!! Seriously.


You might wanna consider investing in video equipment, my brotha. A DVD series that's STRICTLY for the VERY beginner keyboardist. Tips and tricks slowed down.


That's what I think, anyway. 

[Incognegro]

Aight, TB, when someone said this before, I kinda laughed; but, now, I think they were on to something.


You SHOULD make a DVD, bruh. Real Talk.


I say this because, if you're going to take the time to write out all of this information and break it down the way you do, a DVD (for those of us that are visual/aural) would be FIRE!! Seriously.


You might wanna consider investing in video equipment, my brotha. A DVD series that's STRICTLY for the VERY beginner keyboardist. Tips and tricks slowed down.


That's what I think, anyway. 

And he wouldn't have to worry about finding someone to put it up on their site.

[SirTJ]

And if you need some editing done, yours truly is an iMovie/Windows Movie Maker PRO!!! 

All I ask for in return is a double portion of your talent. 

[T-Block]

You might wanna consider investing in video equipment, my brotha. A DVD series that's STRICTLY for the VERY beginner keyboardist. Tips and tricks slowed down.


That's what I think, anyway. 

Honestly, I have been thinking hard about this.  Maybe it is time for me to do something like this. 

[SisterCM]

Honestly, I have been thinking hard about this.  Maybe it is time for me to do something like this. 

Please do make a DVD! 

[HeartSoulandSpirit]

Hello LGM Family,

I must admit I have fallen off in regards to playing/learning.  My wife is about to have our first child and this is her first pregnancy, so needless to say I've been busy.  I dug this posts up because like I said, I did fall off a little in regards to my playing, but now I'm back on it and this is about where I left off in my learning.  Ok, so 9ths can be added to any major chord or in substituion of a 2.  Just so I'm clear that would be like a progression:

7-3-6-"minor 9th" -5-1....Is that correct?   

Also, is an "add9" chord  the same as a "9th"?? 

Also, what about 11ths?  By this logic, you could use 11ths when playing the 4, right?

[docjohn]

to play a 13th,I've always found it easy to play the Major 7 th chord from a whole step below over that note in the bass;i.e. C13 is a Bb maj7 Bb D F A over a C;Bb 13 is an Ab maj 7 Ab C Eb G/Bb..

sometimes,you can add in other notes-but I'm not sure what to name the chord i.e., Ab C Eb F G /Ab what would you call this TB?
I've been working on an old crusaders tune"Keep that same old Feeling".the 1 st 2 chords are a good example of going from the 13 (Keep)   Bb13/Bb to a Bb

[berbie]

I would buy it T-Block

[hardheaded]

ok im gonna start the Official T-Block Dvd request petition thread

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,70868.new.html#new