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Author Topic: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.  (Read 8052 times)

Offline sugabear

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Hey fam. Here's a clip of me playing some CCM music. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's my attempt at trying to stretch myself I play some music that takes me out of my comfort zone. Check it out.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/dVlwckhVNkdrUm1Ga1E9PQ
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Offline fretai03

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 10:25:05 PM »
Yeah man, appreciate the share.

Did good, respect.

Offline CARLISLE

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2009, 10:37:45 PM »
nice feel. I like
You can make it happen; whatever you want

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Offline Natejam71

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 11:02:51 PM »
Excellent job...I luv the song too... You did your thing, your playing definitely complimented the music. Again, nice work..Stay Blessed, Nate    P.S.  I am so happy that I did not hear gospel chops on a CCM song..excellent job..

Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 07:25:29 AM »
Excellent job...I luv the song too... You did your thing, your playing definitely complimented the music. Again, nice work..Stay Blessed, Nate    P.S.  I am so happy that I did not hear gospel chops on a CCM song..excellent job..

Ay, Nate - I'm not referring to you directly, but this has been bothering me on other sites. 

What is gospel chops?  I thought that it was a brand.  I don't mean to rant, but I hate to read/hear that, especially on other forums, where they use that term to look down on that genre (superior versus inferior).  We don't say metal chops or fusion chops.  We chops are chops, regardless of the genre. 

But yeah, sugabear, I'll check it out when I get to the crib...
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Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 08:01:29 AM »
I meant to type the following:

Chops are chops, regardless of the genre.
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Offline Jedi3

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2009, 09:51:00 AM »
Ay, Nate - I'm not referring to you directly, but this has been bothering me on other sites. 

What is gospel chops?  I thought that it was a brand.  I don't mean to rant, but I hate to read/hear that, especially on other forums, where they use that term to look down on that genre (superior versus inferior).  We don't say metal chops or fusion chops.  We chops are chops, regardless of the genre. 

But yeah, sugabear, I'll check it out when I get to the crib...



I would venture that he was referring to what may be considered typical gospel fills and licks.  Contemporary "Black" gospel music has really developed it's own particular voice and in some ways a new identity.  By that I guess I'm suggesting that "church drummers" are more recognized today as sounding like "church drummers."  Now, on the one hand, that's a good thing because I think it has drawn a lot more folks to the music and the genre in general and folks are actually interested in checking out things they may not have thought about before.  And like I said, to me, that really is a good thing.  However, because gospel drummers (and gospel musicians in general) have seemed to become more popular these days, I think maybe the gospel sound, per se, has become a little generic.  Now I qualify that statement by saying that all gospel drummers don't necessarily sound the same, but many tend to lock themselves into the gospel style of play and many try to make it fit in places where it doesn't necessarily work.  A lot of cats are using the same fills, licks, and tricks and trying to force square pegs in round holes, if you will.  Nate, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is where you were going with that.  I enjoyed Suga's track for the same reason.  It didn't at all feel like he was trying to force Sunday morning service into it. He let the song breathe and go where it was supposed to go.  Sugabear, excellent work Sir.

Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 10:18:31 AM »

I would venture that he was referring to what may be considered typical gospel fills and licks.  Contemporary "Black" gospel music has really developed it's own particular voice and in some ways a new identity.  By that I guess I'm suggesting that "church drummers" are more recognized today as sounding like "church drummers."  Now, on the one hand, that's a good thing because I think it has drawn a lot more folks to the music and the genre in general and folks are actually interested in checking out things they may not have thought about before.  And like I said, to me, that really is a good thing.  However, because gospel drummers (and gospel musicians in general) have seemed to become more popular these days, I think maybe the gospel sound, per se, has become a little generic.  Now I qualify that statement by saying that all gospel drummers don't necessarily sound the same, but many tend to lock themselves into the gospel style of play and many try to make it fit in places where it doesn't necessarily work.  A lot of cats are using the same fills, licks, and tricks and trying to force square pegs in round holes, if you will.  Nate, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is where you were going with that. 

This blanket statement could also apply to other idioms.  This was the main idea of my original post.
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Offline Jedi3

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 10:38:15 AM »
I think that depends on your perception.  You said, "Chops are chops, regardless of the genre."  I disagree.  Church chops are church chops.  Jazz chops are jazz chops.  Metal chops are metal chops.  I concede that there is some overlap, and you can certainly make some things work from each in the other.  You must agree though that each genre has its own unique style and that you couldn't possibly play any chop on any gig.  I mean really, if a chop is a chop, why don't you see cats on mainstream jazz gigs playing death metal double bass. 

Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2009, 10:57:48 AM »
I define chops as accuracy, coordination and speed as it relates to playing.  All of the listed idioms includes these attributes.

Having chops allows you to play things effortlessly, but as with anything, context is key.

Maybe you're using chops interchangably with a fill/lick.
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Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 11:02:55 AM »
Maybe you're using chops interchangably with a fill/lick.

or phrasing...
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Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 11:19:51 AM »
Chops are the parents of fills/licks and phrasing.  Without the parents, you can't have children.

There is a difference in the two.  This is why I said "Chops are chops, regardless of the genre."

Fills/licks and phrasing on the other hand, is a different story.  This is where church, jazz, metal, et al fills/licks (not chops)and phrasing comes into play as it relates to its application and ultimately, it's appropriateness.
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Offline Jedi3

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 11:28:44 AM »
or phrasing...

I am, mostly.  We're on the same page though...you seem to be talking more technique, I'm talking more approach.  Which, again, I believe is what Nate meant.


Sidenote:
Took it back to the shield, eh?!

\ooo/  brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......it's cold in here!

Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 12:38:09 PM »
I am, mostly.  We're on the same page though...you seem to be talking more technique, I'm talking more approach.  Which, again, I believe is what Nate meant.


Sidenote:
Took it back to the shield, eh?!

\ooo/  brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......it's cold in here!

It's all love, man!   :D

You have a few brothers on the site...
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2009, 01:11:41 PM »
I am, mostly.  We're on the same page though...you seem to be talking more technique, I'm talking more approach.  Which, again, I believe is what Nate meant.


Sidenote:
Took it back to the shield, eh?!

\ooo/  brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......it's cold in here!

There must be an Alpha in the atmosphere!....
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline sugabear

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2009, 01:21:49 PM »
Thanks guys for the love. I also see another interesting topic has spurned up as well. I love it. Since this is my first venture into this type of music, I really took some time to listen to some of the drummers that play CCM. I noticed that they all seemed to have this sort of "swagger" in their playing, meaning they sort of play loosely around the meter. There fills are also really open and dramatic. I tried to authenticate that feel. I must say, though it may seems like it, it wasn't easy trying to incorporate that.

I've played mostly gospel all of my life and became use to the intricacies in the genre, especially fill-wise. The fills tend to be a lot faster (subdivisionally) and powerful. That's a hard habit to break. That's why I appreciate guys like Calvin because they've incorporated the more open fill/lick into gospel music.

While playing CCM, I literally have to over exaggerate the movements in my limbs to counteract my instinct do a fast fill (i.e. 16th and 32nd notes). The audience takes it as me being animated and "into" it, but I'm literally fully extending my arms when going around the kit. It helps. I also had to tone down the activity on the bass drum. In gospel music there are a lot of notes that can be played on the bass drum. I had to mindfully pull the reigns on that as well. I haven't by any means perfected the genre, but those few actions I've taken has made the adjusment a lot less noticeable.
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Offline j_kay

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2009, 01:34:37 PM »
Yeah man - it's usually tough when you have to mentally make major adjustments in your approach.  You'll be on auto pilot once you get used to playing with the similar approaches within that genre.
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2009, 01:51:09 PM »
Hey fam. Here's a clip of me playing some CCM music. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's my attempt at trying to stretch myself I play some music that takes me out of my comfort zone. Check it out.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/dVlwckhVNkdrUm1Ga1E9PQ


I like the song... never heard it before now.

Good job doc, nice and open drum sound nice behind the beat feel. Let me offer a couple of suggestions:
(1) 14"x6" snare medium tight batter with wide wires medium tight. If you tune the heads to loose you will get a muddy sound/to much bottom....  Economic choices are the steel drums that come with the Stage Custom Birch or the Pearl Visions. 14"x6" nickle-plated brass or hammered brass, bronze or copper, 14"x7" oak or 14"x8" Birch Custom Absoulute, DW Aluminum are ideal.

(2) Consider your tom setup focus... with CCM it is more 12" rack, 14" and 16" low toms. Reference Hillsong United's drummer and Chris Tomlin's drummer and Paul Beloche's drummer Carl Albrecht.

(3) Make FLAT FLAMS and FLAMS in general your bestest friends forever. These along with high sticking your 8th note hi-hat will really lock the feel.
An exercise that Jojo Mayer taught at his clinic is to practice soloing with only 8th notes at a slow tempo don't do a fill for like 5 minutes just various 8th note phrases. Think song form AABA etc. By the time you settle in and make music you waont really want to do a fill but when you do it sounds huge and amazing. This is excellent for developing that CCM, Country, Pop/Rock thing.
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Offline Da_Drumma

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2009, 02:47:29 PM »
I will check this out when I get to the crib home skillet!!! I know it was on point though. When are you going to post the Josh Helms vid aye???

Offline sugabear

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Re: Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 04:09:48 PM »
I will check this out when I get to the crib home skillet!!! I know it was on point though. When are you going to post the Josh Helms vid aye???
I like the song... never heard it before now.

Good job doc, nice and open drum sound nice behind the beat feel. Let me offer a couple of suggestions:
(1) 14"x6" snare medium tight batter with wide wires medium tight. If you tune the heads to loose you will get a muddy sound/to much bottom....  Economic choices are the steel drums that come with the Stage Custom Birch or the Pearl Visions. 14"x6" nickle-plated brass or hammered brass, bronze or copper, 14"x7" oak or 14"x8" Birch Custom Absoulute, DW Aluminum are ideal.

(2) Consider your tom setup focus... with CCM it is more 12" rack, 14" and 16" low toms. Reference Hillsong United's drummer and Chris Tomlin's drummer and Paul Beloche's drummer Carl Albrecht.

(3) Make FLAT FLAMS and FLAMS in general your bestest friends forever. These along with high sticking your 8th note hi-hat will really lock the feel.
An exercise that Jojo Mayer taught at his clinic is to practice soloing with only 8th notes at a slow tempo don't do a fill for like 5 minutes just various 8th note phrases. Think song form AABA etc. By the time you settle in and make music you waont really want to do a fill but when you do it sounds huge and amazing. This is excellent for developing that CCM, Country, Pop/Rock thing.
Thanks for all the advice uncle Sabe. That song is an original by the P and W leader (lead singer on track). He handed me a scratch track with vocals and acoustic guitar and said, "See what you can do with this." I love this guy because he gives me a lot of freedom to rhythmically create on his original stuff. I most definitely will apply what you said. Everything I played on is owned by the church. They have a Tama Starclassic Performer. The rack toms are 10" and 14" and they have a 5.5x14. That set up most definitely doesn't fit the type of music they play. I've been looking at getting another snare soon. I was looking at a Tama 6x14 G Maple snare. The other drummer that played there brought in a Premier 8x14 resonator snare drum and that thing brought tears to my eyes. It fit the music perfectly. I was one to put off big snares until I played that snare. We actually will be travelling to Nashville next month to perform at a conference. If you're still in Tennessee, let me know. I'll pass on the info in case you have time to come check it out.

I will check this out when I get to the crib home skillet!!! I know it was on point though. When are you going to post the Josh Helms vid aye???

What's up man! actually this is the audio from the video. It's a lot more clearer. That's the reason I posted it. I just recorded 7 tracks for Josh. Once he does what he needs to do with them I'll most definitely let you hear them.
My goal as a musician is to be better than myself.
check out my site www.tampogo.com/alsmith!!!
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