Sugabear trying to be as versatile as he can....take a gander.

[Natejam71]

I would venture that he was referring to what may be considered typical gospel fills and licks.  Contemporary "Black" gospel music has really developed it's own particular voice and in some ways a new identity.  By that I guess I'm suggesting that "church drummers" are more recognized today as sounding like "church drummers."  Now, on the one hand, that's a good thing because I think it has drawn a lot more folks to the music and the genre in general and folks are actually interested in checking out things they may not have thought about before.  And like I said, to me, that really is a good thing.  However, because gospel drummers (and gospel musicians in general) have seemed to become more popular these days, I think maybe the gospel sound, per se, has become a little generic.  Now I qualify that statement by saying that all gospel drummers don't necessarily sound the same, but many tend to lock themselves into the gospel style of play and many try to make it fit in places where it doesn't necessarily work.  A lot of cats are using the same fills, licks, and tricks and trying to force square pegs in round holes, if you will.  Nate, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is where you were going with that.  I enjoyed Suga's track for the same reason.  It didn't at all feel like he was trying to force Sunday morning service into it. He let the song breathe and go where it was supposed to go.  Sugabear, excellent work Sir.

Yeah, thanks Jedi3 for the clarification.....I know that I was not clear on my explanation...I understand perfectly what you mean J kay...however, all genres of music tend to have a feel and musicians must have a specific approach in order to capture what an artist wants.  Chops are chops and fills are fills but, as musician we incorporate those chops and fills and cater them to the specific music that the music calls for..I explain further later.. I have to go...this is going to be an interesting discussion..stay blessed, nate J.

[Praise_Productions]

man you sound good!!!

[j_kay]

..I understand perfectly what you mean J kay...however, all genres of music tend to have a feel and musicians must have a specific approach in order to capture what an artist wants.  Chops are chops and fills are fills but, as musician we incorporate those chops and fills and cater them to the specific music that the music calls for..I explain further later.. I have to go...this is going to be an interesting discussion..stay blessed, nate J.

Ay, did you see that?!?

[j_kay]

Sounds good, man.  Drop a few subtleties on that snare, man...

[sugabear]

man you sound good!!!

Thanks for the love my friend. I gotta come on the other side of the pond and holla at my boy!!!

Sounds good, man.  Drop a few subtleties on that snare, man...

Thanks for the encouragement J. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the highlighted portion? I'm looking for as much help as possible sounding authentic.

[robin of drummin]

amen amen jedi thats giving the dictonary term, and no chops arnt chops I am a R & B and funk drummer, i cant play ska, punk, heavy metal, or fast rock although i can in order to expand my repetoir but that not my pocket of playing, a pro should feel his or her comfort zone make you a more of a dynamic player

[j_kay]

I take it that you didn't really comprehend my points.  I'm speaking on what chops are.  Chops and fills/licks and phrasing are different things.  If what I'm saying is the "dictionary term" (and I can't find the definition of [drum] chops), wouldn't a point of reference be *wait for it* a dictionary?!? 

Why do you think that chop builder excercises are written?  It is to improve upon what I've defined as chops (see page one, just in case you missed it).  What you're doing is using chops and fills/licks/phrasing interchangeably (it's kinda like saying that ignorant and stupid are the same, in which it isn't). 

Being able to authentically play R&B, Ska, Punk, Heavy Metal or Speed Metal requires chops.  Those chops will allow you to facilitate your ideas (reaad: fills/licks and phrasing) around the drumset after you've learned those idioms. 

So wait - you said that you can't play Ska, Punk, Heavy Metal, etc., although you can?!?     I don't understand your syntax.  Care to retype that sentence clearer? 

Lastly, your examples are not congruent with the definition of chops - those examples speaks to vocabulary, based on what you stated what you can and cannot play.  Chops does not equal vocabulary/being able to play different styles fluently.  Chops are on the technical side of the fence.

[j_kay]

*exercises

[j_kay]

Thanks for the encouragement J. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the highlighted portion? I'm looking for as much help as possible sounding authentic.

Just add some Boo Diddleys to add more texture to your backbeat.  Not too much, obviously...

[lockslie1]

I'm loving this song!

[SabianKnight]

Thanks for all the advice uncle Sabe. That song is an original by the P and W leader (lead singer on track). He handed me a scratch track with vocals and acoustic guitar and said, "See what you can do with this." I love this guy because he gives me a lot of freedom to rhythmically create on his original stuff. I most definitely will apply what you said. Everything I played on is owned by the church. They have a Tama Starclassic Performer. The rack toms are 10" and 14" and they have a 5.5x14. That set up most definitely doesn't fit the type of music they play. I've been looking at getting another snare soon. I was looking at a Tama 6x14 G Maple snare. The other drummer that played there brought in a Premier 8x14 resonator snare drum and that thing brought tears to my eyes. It fit the music perfectly. I was one to put off big snares until I played that snare. We actually will be travelling to Nashville next month to perform at a conference. If you're still in Tennessee, let me know. I'll pass on the info in case you have time to come check it out.

See 8"x14" Resonator.... it is that Swagger. That 6"x14" Paul Leim is the truth. Calvin gets a great sound from that and Obviously Nashville studio great Paul Leim does.

The exaggerated movements are time essentials. It is what I have termed the "Time Space Continuum". Gadd, Billy Ward, Tommy Igoe, Vinnie and others use these full, gracefully, dance-like motions. The motion from start to finish should encompass the spacial value of the note being played. It cause your whole body to play time and groove harder. If the drummer is dancing on the kit the people will be dancing on the floor. As the drummer the key is to stay in the moment... playing that song mind, body and soul at that moment.

Note: Cymbal wise 16" crash, then an 18" or two and a 20" crash.. Medium-Thin to Medium. Your hats should range 14" to 15".



Yes, I am still in Tennessee in Memphis about 2.5 away. I'll drop my number in your PM. We can really talk on the subject and hooking up in Nashville.

I look forward to hearing the rest of the project.

[SabianKnight]

Sounds good, man.  Drop a few subtleties on that snare, man...

To add to what J said...

In Country and CCM there isn't as lot of triggering of the snare or complex tracks running so your voice is your snare. Brushes, Rutes, Broomsticks (for a fatter sound without low tuning or overpowering the song).

I used the country genre first because there are more examples to learn from as well as because the big names in CCM record in Nashville metro area and the same Session Musicians play on the the major label CCM records as the Country records. Over 60% of today's American music is recorded in Nashville. It is not called Music City for nothing. Dan Needham, J.D. Blair, Johnny Rabb, Chester Thompson, Derico Watson, Zoro, Carl Albreight, Eddie Bayers, Paul Liem, Evette "Baby Girl" Pryor (via Memphis), Jim Riley, other established drummers live in and around Nashville now instead of L.A. or NYC or ATL. And most established players that don't live there come there at some point to record.

[Da_Drumma]

Man you know I was digging that joint from when I first heard it, and I still am. That was a straight solid peformance dude. I love playing CCM. It takes you to a whole different level, and increases your maturity as a musician. I am also a fan of playing open, and having your fills open. It creates space, and just lets the song breathe and flow. Thats why Im a big fan of Calvin myself (Not that he is the only one that does it) but I love the way he applies it. Hey...Btw Reno is doing a clinic on Monday at 6:30pm how about you shoot over this way homie?? What you say???

[j_kay]

I was able to find a definition of chops: http://www.humboldt1.com/~jazz/glossary.html#c

Chops: technical ability, to execute music physically and to negotiate chord changes. Distinct from the capacity to have good ideas, to phrase effectively and build a solo.

Hmm, just as I stated before...

[fretai03]

Just add some Boo Diddleys to add more texture to your backbeat.  Not too much, obviously...

I'm guessing that you're referring to Ghost notes, right?

Being a CCM drummer, that's the first thing I was taught.

[j_kay]

I'm guessing that you're referring to Ghost notes, right?

Being a CCM drummer, that's the first thing I was taught.

Correct!

[SabianKnight]

I was able to find a definition of chops: http://www.humboldt1.com/~jazz/glossary.html#c

Chops: technical ability, to execute music physically and to negotiate chord changes. Distinct from the capacity to have good ideas, to phrase effectively and build a solo.

Hmm, just as I stated before...

the Teacher has come out yet again...

Thank you for clarifying a word that we Americans especially have destroyed the meaning and understanding thereof. Even our greatest musicians role models are guilty of the abuse of this word in regard to music.

[yamahaboy]

Nice SugaBear. I really enjoyed that.

[dude-on-drums]

I missed the clip!  Somebody hook a brotha up!

[MENDOZA]

WOWZERS!!!! 

What a great topic.  Sugarbear, I didn't get to check out the track, but someone PM with it so I can check it out.  However, the topic of chops and "gospel" chops is great.  I agree with Jkay, "Gospel" chops is a brand.  However, the drumming society has plagued this brand.   They associate gospel chops as playing 32nd note, 16 note triplet linear licks.  However, what's funny is Dave Weckl, Vinnie, Steve Smith, etc. have been doing it for years, yet they get praised for it.  In my opinion the reason that people look at "gospel" chops as the licks that I stated above is that during "sheds" that's all they hear and see.  If you go to youtube and type Drum Shed what you are going to see is ALOT of guys just ripping the drumset with the fastest lick(s) that they have, which most of the time are the same redudant licks.  However, when Weckl, Vinnie, etc. perform their "licks" they do it in a MUSICAL situation.  They perform those licks, but with different subdivision, quintuplets, septtuplets, etc.,to give the phrase and elastic feeling of stretching and pulling.I won't speak too much on "Sheds" because that can be a WHOLE other topic in itself.

As far as CCM goes, it's such a great genre when done properly.  However, like Sabe said, you kind of need the right gear/sound!!!  You need to get at least 6x14.  A DW edge is ideal for this, a Paul Leim, Black Beauty, Steve Ferrone (which is discontinued by Pearl since he's a Gretsch artist now), Dennis Chambers snare, 7x14, etc. If you really want to get deep with it, you have to experiment with different types of wood, bubinga, oak, etc.  Or if you really have the cash, check out the VLT shells that really have low fundamental pitch.  Cymbal wise, you need some "big" cymbals.  16-20 Crashes are ideal.  Hi-hats 14-15 like Sabe previously mentioned or get some 16-18 crashes and put them together.  However make sure that the top "hi hat" is thin to medium thing.  But be care with your technique.  Make sure that you're playing these cymbals and drums with the correct technique.  Pull the sound out of both drums and cymbals.  12" Rack, 14 and 16"  floors are ideal.  If you have an 18"  More power to you LOL!!!  All in all we need to choose the right tools for every application/genre we are trying to play.  By tools, that not only means drums, cymbals, head selection, sticks,etc., but we need the right attitude, touch, feel, sensitivity, vibe, nuances, to portray our story.  Finally and most importantly respect the music  that you are playing.  Remember to keep the conversation going.  What you don't say is just as important if not more important than what you do say.  I could type more, but I gotta get back to work.  Take care and God Bless.

Mendoza