Transpose again

[Fenix]

Transposing in itself isn't technically wrong, it's just unprofessional, taking the easy way out.  It will criple you in the long run.  What happens when u have to play a board w/out transpose and they sing in a key u don't know?

Transposing is an insult to every other musician and every other instrument player who had to work hard to learn every key, but u getting the same result by just hitting a stinking button.  You are faking, not being real. I could call that lying, and u know what the Bible says about liars, but I won't go that far.

Hmm...i highly suspect you do not like transposing.

 

[Blackwiz87]

Transposing is an insult to every other musician and every other instrument player who had to work hard to learn every key, but u getting the same result by just hitting a stinking button.  You are faking, not being real. I could call that lying, and u know what the Bible says about liars, but I won't go that far.

You don't like transposing. Let's just keep it like that. All this "its an insult"...you're going over board. Chill. Some musicians transpose for whatever reason and some don't...you choose not to...and that's fine. Others choose too..and thats fine. What others choose to do has nothing to do with musicians who choose not to.

[berbie]

Fenix, your ability to get the hidden meaning from vague comments is amazing.  How on earth could you tell that T-Block didn't like the idea of transposing?

berbie

[Metronome]

You don't like transposing. Let's just keep it like that. All this "its an insult"...you're going over board. Chill. Some musicians transpose for whatever reason and some don't...you choose not to...and that's fine. Others choose too..and thats fine. What others choose to do has nothing to do with musicians who choose not to.

It really is an insult....when a cat rolls in the service they are insulting music.....by not taking the time to learn there craft they are not getting the full essence of what can be played...THEN they are insulting other musicians......"I can play what you can play without having to do what you did, look at me!!!!!"....That in essence is what cats are saying when they transpose..

ITS NOT an excuse for beginners either...if that was the case then nobody on the face of the earth would have learned how to play until a transpose button came out...

I mean if people wanna cripple themselves by transposing then thats their business....but dont get mad when you hit that bump in the road and have nowhere to go....

[sjonathan02]

It really is an insult....when a cat rolls in the service they are insulting music.....by not taking the time to learn there craft they are not getting the full essence of what can be played...THEN they are insulting other musicians......"I can play what you can play without having to do what you did, look at me!!!!!"....That in essence is what cats are saying when they transpose..

ITS NOT an excuse for beginners either...if that was the case then nobody on the face of the earth would have learned how to play until a transpose button came out...

I mean if people wanna cripple themselves by transposing then thats their business....but dont get mad when you hit that bump in the road and have nowhere to go....

I think it's only an insult for those who REFUSE to learn in all keys.

Using it to get by, temporarily, isn't a big deal, IMHO.

[organman88]

I think it's only an insult for those who REFUSE to learn in all keys.

Using it to get by, temporarily, isn't a big deal, IMHO.

using to get by 1 time turns into 2 times turns into 3 times and then you get used to it and feel you dont have to learn because you got help

[Fenix]

Fenix, your ability to get the hidden meaning from vague comments is amazing.  How on earth could you tell that T-Block didn't like the idea of transposing?

berbie

LOL!!!! 

You are so sarcastic. 

[Fenix]

using to get by 1 time turns into 2 times turns into 3 times and then you get used to it and feel you dont have to learn because you got help

That is what happens. I am so very happy i didn't know about the transpose button when i was learning.

The people i can forgive for transposing are non-pianists like my bassist who transposes in the event that there is no one to play keys.

[floaded27]

using to get by 1 time turns into 2 times turns into 3 times and then you get used to it and feel you dont have to learn because you got help

thats people with no discipline. if everytime u do something once it automatically becomes habit, then "transpose" is the least of your worries in life. seriously. what if you went to a church and they didnt have a keyboard and u had to play the organ just to get by, now you always gotta play organ, because you cant stop yourself from doing so, because you did it once out of necessity. that sounds so silly, but its the exact same situation.

i started really practicing keys to develop my foundation for the bass. and i had a song i wrote in E and was playing it and the person singing it seemed to be straining and i said was it too high? so i said if i dropped it to another key u'd probably be more comfortable. I went down to Db to see if it was ok. as a beginner i couldnt quickly pick up the song in a different key, especially since i was trying to test if the key was fine for her (i may have had to switch to yet another key) and then learn it in that key later on. Pressed for time, i transposed into Db and played the song and it was fine. so that day when i went home i started learning the song in Db. But...according to some of you guys, i should have been incapable of self control, pressing the transpose key like a rabid animal. Instead of gradually getting better in different keys (not quickly because the majority of my practice time is dedicated to bass), i should be a one key wonder stuck in the "box of transposition".

i study the use, sound, composition of a chord type to get understanding. i move patterns into other keys to get a better sense of how they relate. I explore different keys by playing different patters in keys that I am least familiar with in order to get balance. This is called discipline. I have it, even though i once "sinned" by transposing. There are people who want to put in the work by developing foundation and not trying to be a virtuoso in 3 days. Its a shame that many of you assume that nobody has any discipline. Its actually a relief that the original poster didnt quit playing because he committed the cardinal sin of using the transpose button and feel less than a musician. (dont worry o.p., ur not going to hell for pressing that button.)

But i guess many here dont have discipline themselves if they have to break the button, be ignorant to where it is, etc so they dont fall into the temptation of being dependent on it. thats lack of discipline.

[Metronome]

Ok....This is what im saying..personally ive never seen anybody who transposes break that habit.....EVERYBODY I know who tries that whole "Imma use it till I learn all my keys" never really learns all of their keys...

And I will NEVER EVER agree with the statement that someone needs to transpose.....meaning that there is no other choice....thats whack...There are 11 other choices on the keyboard.....

Why play at all if you dont have your instrument at a decent level?? Where I'm from you dont play out until you have proven to the people that you can play in all your keys....thats like a drummer gettin called to play a service when all he knows how to use is kick and snare...no toms, cymbals, nothin...

[Incognegro]

You don't like transposing. Let's just keep it like that. All this "its an insult"...you're going over board. Chill. Some musicians transpose for whatever reason and some don't...you choose not to...and that's fine. Others choose too..and thats fine. What others choose to do has nothing to do with musicians who choose not to.

T-Block is right.

If you asked a concert pianist if they can play in every key, they'd look at you like you have 3 heads.

Same if you ask a jazz musician if they play in every key.

How about you ask a violinist, sax player, etc, etc.

No?  Right.

So to every REAL musician who went through, and is going through the grind of becoming proficient at their instrument of choice, it's an insult. 

"So I've busted my behind, practiced even when I didn't feel like it, all in the interest of becoming a good musician, and you're playing in ONE KEY and have everyone thinking you're a Beast?!?!?!"

It's the easy way out.

I believe that, since he's been thrown into this role as keyboard player, if someone gets up to sing in E and he can't play ANYTHING in E (assuming he doesn't even know the E Major Scale, in which case he CAN'T play ANY song in E.), transpose.  It would be better for the ministry if you transpose rather than sit their and decide "I'm just not gonna play".  That's pride.  But as soon as you can play a simple 1-4-5 in E, cut out the transpose button.  Tough it.  Take the embarassment.

[sjonathan02]

using to get by 1 time turns into 2 times turns into 3 times and then you get used to it and feel you dont have to learn because you got help

Not for the serious musician. How many times can one say this? 

[sjonathan02]

Ok....This is what im saying..personally ive never seen anybody who transposes break that habit.....EVERYBODY I know who tries that whole "Imma use it till I learn all my keys" never really learns all of their keys...

And I will NEVER EVER agree with the statement that someone needs to transpose.....meaning that there is no other choice....thats whack...There are 11 other choices on the keyboard.....

Why play at all if you dont have your instrument at a decent level?? Where I'm from you dont play out until you have proven to the people that you can play in all your keys....thats like a drummer gettin called to play a service when all he knows how to use is kick and snare...no toms, cymbals, nothin...

I'mma need everyone to stop actin' like there place of residence is the ONLY place on the planet. 

[Fenix]

Ok....This is what im saying..personally ive never seen anybody who transposes break that habit.....EVERYBODY I know who tries that whole "Imma use it till I learn all my keys" never really learns all of their keys...

Yes, i agree that it is a very difficult habit to break. It took a while for the other keyboardist in my church to stop using the transpose button.

The problem i find is that too many people are being pushed out to play before they are really ready. There is a lot of pressure for some folks to just...play something. Churches just want to have the sound of an instrument, regardless matter the skill level of the musician.

Plus lets be real. More often than not, a lot of church musicians are so happy they made it through the service that they don't bother practicing at home.

[Metronome]

I'mma need everyone to stop actin' like there place of residence is the ONLY place on the planet. 

True lol, VERY true (because my hometown is 145,000 strong lol)but my question is this......

EX: You have a strong desire to play, but ou can only play in Ab.  The church asks you to play for th prasie team or youth choir. They already have a good musician who you are going to be playing with.  Do you decline knowing that you need more time in the shed, or do you say "hecks yeah man I'm down" and go transpose??

The thing that bothers me most about transposing is that it gives dudes a reason NOT to say no...I mean as long as you aren't rude and stuff NO is an accaeptbale answer lol......so if somebody asks you to play and you know you arent capable, cant you just say no??????

[floaded27]

Why play at all if you dont have your instrument at a decent level?? Where I'm from you dont play out until you have proven to the people that you can play in all your keys....thats like a drummer gettin called to play a service when all he knows how to use is kick and snare...no toms, cymbals, nothin...

and what im saying is the most important person that i know did learn. ME. not what i heard, not what i read, but what i experienced.

thats where u from. but to say "why play at all?" so when do u do anything outside of your house? how do you get better? and thats a big reason why nobody within the church gets developed to play. u gotta be nice or otherwise we'll pay someone else to come in. just this past sunday our drummer wasnt there so we had a little kid about 8 or 9 who is trying to learn play. all he had was the kick and the snare and i worked with him to get the timing. what we supposed to say "come back when ur good enough?" yeah, thats often the best way to kill somebody spirit. or will you say "if they really wanted to play they wouldnt let that stop them" because if u can assume people have that determination, why cant you assume that people will have the discipline to not let 1 button cripple their growth?

when i played keys for p&w we did fine. i didnt have to prove i could play in every key. and i couldnt. we didnt modulate, but every song wasnt in the same key, it was in the key of the original recording and a few others we changed. or we couldve paid someone who aint saved worth a lick but could play in all keys. different situations call for different measures and just because you never find yourself in a situation, doesnt give u the right to judge someone else in the situation.

but the issue isnt about transposing. I know it will later on cripple your growth. some people are required to play even when their skill level isnt up to snuff. thats like saying you cant preach until you memorize every verse in the bible. sometimes God give you a word, and if you may always have to reference Psalms, in the process you'll grow. If you're only good in Eb and you're forced into the position of playing and ur required to play in something else, you dont have time to say "Hold everything! Let me learn to play in this other key!" u do what you have to. And thats not playing out, because yeah u shouldnt be playing out without being up to a decent level, but most people have these experiences at their home church. Every church doesnt have a basket of musicians to just pick one. Some churches just got one, and it may not even be keys.

the ideal thing would to suggest to people not to stunt their own growth, and warn them and encourage them. y'all just **** them all to hell. no compassion or help for the fellow musician. if y'all do all this about a transpose key, i wonder how y'all actually treat people who are looking for Christ but may not have everything right. something to think about.

[sjonathan02]

True lol, VERY true (because my hometown is 145,000 strong lol)but my question is this......

EX: You have a strong desire to play, but ou can only play in Ab.  The church asks you to play for th prasie team or youth choir. They already have a good musician who you are going to be playing with.  Do you decline knowing that you need more time in the shed, or do you say "hecks yeah man I'm down" and go transpose??

The thing that bothers me most about transposing is that it gives dudes a reason NOT to say no...I mean as long as you aren't rude and stuff NO is an accaeptbale answer lol......so if somebody asks you to play and you know you arent capable, cant you just say no??????

I'm pretty sure F27 has said what I'm going to say, but I'm just not going to read all of that.

@ F27 this is a messageboard not a audition for the Writers Workshop of America, dude. 

On topic: I'm down, Metro. I ask the other dude if he can teach me. When something occurs on the fly during a service, I'd probably lay back and ask, later on, what happened and learn what I could.

They say experience is the best teacher.


I also say all of this because I'm IN the situation, right now, man. I'm the ONLY cat on ANY instrument (right now, I only play during prayer and altar call and, sometimes, IF I know the song, I'll play a bit after P&W).

To say to someone like me that I need to jump off the keys until I get better is more of an insult, IMO, than a cat trying to transpose WHILE they're learning.

BTJM. 

[Incognegro]

the ideal thing would to suggest to people not to stunt their own growth, and warn them and encourage them. y'all just **** them all to hell. no compassion or help for the fellow musician. if y'all do all this about a transpose key, i wonder how y'all actually treat people who are looking for Christ but may not have everything right. something to think about.

Psychobabble.  Nobody threw this young man under the bus.  We're encouraging him to learn every key.  We're trying our best to convey that the Transpose is not the answer.

3 years from now when he's killin', he'll thank us.



Sjon, I'll tell you the same thing I told the OP:

Transpose if you must.  What we do is ministry, and if you know you literally CAN NOT play in a certain key, deciding not to transpose would be proud and would not minister.  I have no doubt you won't become addicted to the transpose. 

If you did T-Block would hunt you down like your last name was "Knowles". 

[floaded27]

my bad. its just that its seems people saying cliche stuff followed by 10 posts of people sayin yeah,true,smiley faces, and people still dont get it. i'll be quiet. im sure the o.p. isnt in need of encouragement anymore.

[floaded27]

Psychobabble.  Nobody threw this young man under the bus.  We're encouraging him to learn every key.  We're trying our best to convey that the Transpose is not the answer.

3 years from now when he's killin', he'll thank us.

not psychobabble. he was basically told if he could only play in one key he shouldnt be in that position to have to play anyway. maybe i took it the wrong way, but it was like saying, "go sit down somewhere until u get better" like sjon stated.

To say to someone like me that I need to jump off the keys until I get better is more of an insult, IMO, than a cat trying to transpose WHILE they're learning.