IS IT JUST ME?

[Torch7]

Ah....the "uncertain trumpet"
Sometimes there's a fine line between "leading of the Spirit" and someone's ego...

+1

[jeremyr]

I had a long post typed up, but I'll leave it at this.

I hate it to doc, and I honestly don't believe that it's the spirit that leads people to change up entire songs like that.

We can change when we go to the hook, or the vamp, but don't go adding whole different songs and new chord structures in the middle of a song.  I don't feel that's the spirit.

[dhagler]

Excellent posts, all.

My experiences have not been radically different from most of yours. Let me add this, however:  as bass players we have to understand our role in the music ministry. We are not "lead" players like keyboardists and vocalists so our place is traditionally in the background and, for the most part, we are to follow the direction of one of those "leaders" even if it is not where we planned or prepared to go.  After service is the time to discuss and resolve any issues that arise.

I recall once on a song where the Spirit was moving and the choir went into an encore vamp. I picked up on it before the keyboardist so I started playing the bass line to what the choir was doing.  My keyboardist chewed me out because, even though that the right thing to play, I should have waited for her to start playing first.  And once I got over my indignation, I realized that she was right.  Then again, our director/MOM should have recognized what was going on and brought us all in at the appropriate time.

There has to be order, even in how we act under the dictates of the Spirit.

[Main5playah]

Main5playah... I feel ya br'er... been there.

I feel what everyone is saying about playing as the Spirit leads, but I also see what floaded27 is saying and think, sometimes the Spirit's {quote} {unquote} leading is a figment of the musicians imagination.

Case in point if the song is in 6/8 and the drummer is feeling led to play in 4/4 -- ahem... Somebody misinterpreted the leading of the Spirit.  There are so many aspect to a song, that everyone needs to be on the same page.  If there is confusion amongst the musicians, there needs to be an understanding, that we can't all be lead in different directions.  If you are not the leader, then follow what the leader has planned to do.  If the leader is the one changing things up follow them as best you can.

Most Eloquently Stated!
Thank-You!
All I want is for us to be on the same measure of the same sheet of music at the appropriate interval. But it seems that as stated the "Spirit" excuse is abused, I sometimes wonder which spirit is moving them. Not every spirit is of God. I'm just talking about what I'm talking about. Somebody say Amen!

[hands5]

based on the responses, it seems like my church is the only place this happens where its NOT under the leading of the Spirit. I mean it does happen that way sometimes, but there are times where that is not the case, sometimes where people who werent in rehearsal start saying what they want and dont want to sing and like malthumb said, you have people who seem to be inclined to satisfy everybody and cant say no, or you have people who didnt bother to practice/rehearse/learn the songs and forgot entire sections of songs and was making it up as they went along.

if God is a God of order, then why does the moving of the Spirit seem to be a cliche excuse for disorder?

No your church isn't the only, because we're dealing with this same issue,and it's the musicians either,but the attitude of the MD is that there  serving God thru the ministry,and I told him I totaly disagree,because there have been numerous of times were these people were not prepared by ither not listening to thier parts or not showing up to rehearsal
Look I also play with a couple of secular bands,(and btw I'm not trying to turn the thread into that)and trust what I tell you there's 0 tolerence with this type unpreparedness.
Cant and won't have it.

[floaded27]

I recall once on a song where the Spirit was moving and the choir went into an encore vamp. I picked up on it before the keyboardist so I started playing the bass line to what the choir was doing.  My keyboardist chewed me out because, even though that the right thing to play, I should have waited for her to start playing first.  And once I got over my indignation, I realized that she was right.

what??? so if the other person isnt in tune with whats going on but you are, you're supposed to wait? i understand u should all be in sync, but when the other person hasnt got a clue how long are u supposed to do nothing? we're talking about playing a song, not usurping the leadership of the pastor. while we play the humble role and try to keep order, i think in some cases this stifles the Lord using us and feeds other people's egos at the same time.

but... everyone's situation is different. i can only speak for my own.

...but don't go adding whole different songs and new chord structures in the middle of a song.

u gotta bind that "substitution spirit" lol.

[kevmove02]

Great topic! I think the most Beneficial thing we can do is get together as the "house band' and make sure we are on one accord. then the rest becomes easy. Focus on what you know:

1. Someone with authority will request a song you don't know or have rehearsed.

2. the singers will decide to do an arrangement that is different from the one we practiced.

3. someone who wasn't at rehearsal will still try to jump in as though they were.

4. Murphy's law will kick in...often.

So what do we do? I once heard that if you learn the 1 4 5 progression, you could play a thousand songs. So if the rhythm section gets their communication together, knows the most common progressions and lock with one another, then just maybe we can stay in the flow and not get frustrated.

I finally figured this out after I got tired of sitting in the music pit with a confused look on my face because nothing i was hearing sounded anything like what we practiced. So I got with the organist and ask him to work with me. Its been a blessing ever since.

I pray things get better for ya bro.

 

[floaded27]

kev, we all comin to UR church. lol

[momuzik]

I heard of this one church that had a lot of confusion playing "as the Spirit lead", but once they found out the MOM's first name was Spirit, everything fell in place.

[kodacolor]

Its called the holy spirit. It happens to all of us. Its called being able to minister in the spirit. It happened today with me. I've been in situations when we did totally different songs.

In some cases it is.  In his case I seriously doubt it.

[Torch7]

I really do believe that there is so much confusion in alot of music departments, because of the awesome power of praising God on one accord.

It's not coincidence that in 2 Chronicles 20 the person who the Spirit of the Lord rose upon to speak our ever so quoted scripture "The Battle is not yours, but God's" was a Levite.  If we continue to read that chapter we see, that as the singers went before the army, and lifted their voices worshiping God, that God fought on the behalf of his people... the Bible actually says, that the Lord set "ambushments" against their enemies.

We have an awesome privilege to play in the house of the LORD, I believe that God wants to destroy the enemies of his children whenever his Levites, are on one accord.  The problem is often it's more about us than the Lord.  The phrase "Get your praise on!" is actually starting to erk me just a bit.  Because my praise is not about me, but it's about HIM.  I think that as believers once that revelation is grasped, God will begin to move amongst his people in a different way.

One last thing before I step off my soap box.  How come the Spirit of God can't lead a lot of folks at the grocery store, or restaurant, or at their child's school, when someone touches their last nerve. But on Sunday mornings from 11:00 - 2:00 all across America, he is leading folks in such powerful ways?  (My father always says, pluck that last nerve, so the rest of us can get on with our lives) Just a thought. 

[kodacolor]

And also practicing one thing and doing another on Sunday is frustrating and can be confusing.  Seems kinda odd for God to operate in that way.  Still, I get what you're grabbing at.  There are times where a song will change because that's where the holy spirit leads it but it's not going to happen on a regular basis. 

I could just be the person who starts the song doesn't practice at home so they start guessing what to do and everyone else has to follow.

[Kelz-Da-Basshead]

There is a huge difference between feeling the spirit and feeling yourself.  I look at it like this.  The devil was not just a musician he was THE musician. So it would make sense that the one thing that he hates the most is to see you doing his old job.(Jealousy) You being a musician or a singer like he once was, he is able to understand what goes through your mind while playing the most and use that to his advantage. Why do you think that whenever there is drama in a church its generally not the usher board or the deacons. He also understands how influential music can be.  He was able to get 1/3 of heaven to rebel. We have to be able to acknowledge his attacks and understand that If there is no drama in your music department at all, it is coming.

This is in no way an excuse, because I wish my church would enforce no practice, no performance on Sunday rule.

[Main5playah]

There is a huge difference between feeling the spirit and feeling yourself.  I look at it like this.  The devil was not just a musician he was THE musician. So it would make sense that the one thing that he hates the most is to see you doing his old job.(Jealousy) You being a musician or a singer like he once was, he is able to understand what goes through your mind while playing the most and use that to his advantage. Why do you think that whenever there is drama in a church its generally not the usher board or the deacons. He also understands how influential music can be.  He was able to get 1/3 of heaven to rebel. We have to be able to acknowledge his attacks and understand that If there is no drama in your music department at all, it is coming.

This is in no way an excuse, because I wish my church would enforce no practice, no performance on Sunday rule.

That's deep and extremely accurate!

[betnich]

There is a huge difference between feeling the spirit and feeling yourself.  I look at it like this.  The devil was not just a musician he was THE musician. So it would make sense that the one thing that he hates the most is to see you doing his old job.(Jealousy) You being a musician or a singer like he once was, he is able to understand what goes through your mind while playing the most and use that to his advantage. Why do you think that whenever there is drama in a church its generally not the usher board or the deacons. He also understands how influential music can be.  He was able to get 1/3 of heaven to rebel. We have to be able to acknowledge his attacks and understand that If there is no drama in your music department at all, it is coming.

Aha! The ultimate HATER...

[ddwilkins]

Moral of the story is, "Stay prayed up."

[chrismc101]

NO, it's not just you. It happens to me all the time. Just this pasted Sunday, I was given one particular Hezekiah song that I practiced diligently Friday nite & Sat nite. Low and behold, we get in church and we did Hezekiah alright, just not the song I rehearsed. But it's been going on so long now, I just laugh at it instead of getting mad; cause it is non-sense.

The bible states that: "everything should be done in decency and in order..." Isn't everything the KEY word? Yes my brothers & sisters, we have to stay prayed up. My wife say be get mad one day one the way to a gig & she made a, me being mad situation; into a bright one by simply saying " It's the GOD in me..." from Mary Mary. Immediately it made me laugh and understand that we have to always let out light shine. So when the nonsense comes about I try to revert back to that moment to ease things out.

[ddwilkins]

Just another note, this reminds me of why I practice more than just what we are suppose to do on Sundays. I play along with the radio stations and just play with various CDs. This builds my musical vocabulary and allows me to play at the spare of the moment. I guess I'm numb to these situations because it makes me better when I'm able to play at a moments notice and have not practiced the song. I'm reminded of this video posted by the Gouche. If you read the caption on youtube, it states that they didn't practice this song. You can tell that they didn't. But because they are great musicians, working on one accord, they was able to pull it off. So, from what I've been reading in this thread, we all need to put personal feelings aside, practice more on our own time, and strive to be the best musician for God. Even if another musicians personal feelings gets involved, we shouldn't allow ours to get involved. 2 wrongs do make a right only 3 lefts will!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0M9s0s-5RU

[floaded27]

But because they are great musicians, working on one accord, they was able to pull it off.

this is the key phrase. this is the very factor why some musicians can get together once and play like they play together all the time. lack of this is why you have people who rehearse regularly and end up a train wreck come performance time. the thing is some people say "we should be on one accord" but they dont understand that the "one accord" isnt their accord, but God's accord. and truth be told, if im striving to be on Gods accord, but you're on ur own accord, we'll NEVER be on one accord.

[jeremyr]

playing an unexpected song is one thing, but changing how that song goes is a WHOLE different thing.

We can all expect to play songs that we haven't rehearsed, however when you get people that want to add their own words and different breaks in the middle of the songs they've gotten completely out of control.

I can respect being able to play songs on demand, but I can't respect when people want to change up songs in the middle of service and they're the only ones that knows how it's suppose to go.