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Author Topic: Gay Marriage  (Read 52133 times)

Incognegro

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2009, 10:41:23 AM »
The goal is equality, and to call it anything other than marriage wouldn't be equal. 

Which is exactly why Gay Marriage bills are still popping up all over the place.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2009, 11:07:43 AM »
Personally, I don't really care one way or the other.  Yeah, I know some will say that makes me a bad Christian, but... well... ok.  It's no secret that I'm opposed to Christians infringing their beliefs (or truths) on those who don't believe.  What Malthumb said in his first post is exactly what I've been saying all along on this subject.  I don't believe non-Christians residing in a country that doesn't claim a national religion should be subject to laws based on a sacred text they don't believe in, just like I don't believe Christians should be subject to Muslim law... unless they are in an Islamic nation.

This is definitely one of those conversations I can't wait to have with Jesus himself, instead of his representatives.
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Offline brutha28

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2009, 11:49:21 AM »
Personally, I don't really care one way or the other.  Yeah, I know some will say that makes me a bad Christian, but... well... ok.  It's no secret that I'm opposed to Christians infringing their beliefs (or truths) on those who don't believe.  What Malthumb said in his first post is exactly what I've been saying all along on this subject.  I don't believe non-Christians residing in a country that doesn't claim a national religion should be subject to laws based on a sacred text they don't believe in, just like I don't believe Christians should be subject to Muslim law... unless they are in an Islamic nation.

This is definitely one of those conversations I can't wait to have with Jesus himself, instead of his representatives.


Can't be luke warm on this one....this is a stance either ur for it or against it.  And no stance means u support them.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2009, 11:54:12 AM »
Can't be luke warm on this one....this is a stance either ur for it or against it.  And no stance means u support them.

No, it doesn't. ::)
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2009, 11:55:09 AM »
Personally, I don't really care one way or the other.  Yeah, I know some will say that makes me a bad Christian, but... well... ok.  It's no secret that I'm opposed to Christians infringing their beliefs (or truths) on those who don't believe.  What Malthumb said in his first post is exactly what I've been saying all along on this subject.  I don't believe non-Christians residing in a country that doesn't claim a national religion should be subject to laws based on a sacred text they don't believe in, just like I don't believe Christians should be subject to Muslim law... unless they are in an Islamic nation.

This is definitely one of those conversations I can't wait to have with Jesus himself, instead of his representatives.


Bad Christian; bad bad bad ya hear me! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

I'm sure that you wear pants, make up, and jewelry, listen to secular music, go to movies and have the ocasional glass of pinot noir after diner too!  I dunno about this LaRue chick; she must be a bad apple.


  ;) ;D 




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Offline kodacolor

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2009, 12:01:32 PM »
Don't shout just yet.  The bill got derailed because of language protecting religous organizations from legal actions if they decline to performing gay weddings etc.  This was a concern of mine from the beginning.  While I personally am opposed to gay marriage, my real problem with legalizing it is the impact that it could have on the church (and pretty much all other religious institutions) from a legal perspective.  We may loose our tax-exempt status, not to mention to potential law suits against chrurches and ministers who deny gay couples their rights.

That bothers me.

1) As someone who doesn't believe in what your doing to marry you?

2) Doesn't fining church violate church and state?  The state is, pretty much telling the Christian church to veer from what they believe in or else they will pay consequences.  I wonder if Islamic churches have this same issue.  (BTW:  I know of this guy who was a Christian and gay, but then when he converted to Islam he said he wasn't gay anymore because it's not allowed in Islam.  ?/?  Alas, another thread for another day.  :)  )

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2009, 12:10:55 PM »
I didn't picket an abortion clinic today so I must be in support of abortion.  ::)
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2009, 12:11:43 PM »
That bothers me.

1) As someone who doesn't believe in what your doing to marry you?

2) Doesn't fining church violate church and state?  The state is, pretty much telling the Christian church to veer from what they believe in or else they will pay consequences.  I wonder if Islamic churches have this same issue.  (BTW:  I know of this guy who was a Christian and gay, but then when he converted to Islam he said he wasn't gay anymore because it's not allowed in Islam.  ?/?  Alas, another thread for another day.  :)  )

But the thing is that marriage is just as much a matter of law as it is a matter of religion.  So for a church to deny a wedding ceremony to a couple because the are gay could put us in a heap of legal trouble.  Other church issues, such as holding leadership positions and participation in the ministry are not state issues.
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2009, 12:18:31 PM »
2 things:

1. No, we should not be trying to tell the world how to live. They don't know about righteousness and holiness and "seek ye first the kingdom" and so on, so how are they going to understand it when we tell them that they're not living according to God's rules?
That's Holy Spirit work. Yes, we can plant seeds. Yes, we should witness. Yes, we should evangelize, but that's pretty much our gig.

2. No, the world should not be trying to redefine what it is that God called "holy". Marriage is not supposed to be entered into lightly, but it's supposed to be a covenant between a man and a woman, period. That was God's example and it has not nor should not be changed simply because the unsaved world wants to call the shots and be "equal", but far too long we Christians have done the following: we ourselves have not given proper respect and honor to holy marriage and recently we've begun to cave on the foundations of holy marriage. Christian divorce rate is 50% or more...just like the world...Christian opinion is that we shouldn't have a say in gay marriage...just like the world. On one hand we want to say "God says marriage is to be holy" and yet on the other hand we're getting divorced and having affairs and being abusive and so on...practically handing over our right to have a respectful voice in this debate. The world looks at us, sees the image of themselves instead of the image of Christ, and turns a deaf ear to anything we have to say.

btw: I'm not pointing a finger, but I am raising a hand as "guilty".

So, what do we do about it?
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Offline kodacolor

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2009, 12:20:20 PM »
You make a very good point in defining the legal differences between marriage and civil unions.  It seems then that the proponents for gay marriage would be in a better position if they put their ENERGY into getting the legal aspects of civil union changed.  In other words, go after equalizing the legal benefits of a civil union and a marriage without focusing on the emotional issue of forcing everyone to recognize it as a marriage. 

With that approach, gay couples could make their own spiritual commitment to each other, enjoy the tax, inheritance, medical, and other legal benefits that come with a LEGAL coupling (marriage) without co-opting the religious understandings of the word marriage.  I'm with you on the big picture.  Feel free to commit to each other, just don't call it marriage.  Deal with the LEGAL aspects and don't try to force people to change their perceptions of what's moral.

Peace,

James

My POV exactly.

Offline themidiroom

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2009, 12:20:51 PM »
So for a church to deny a wedding ceremony to a couple because the are gay could put us in a heap of legal trouble. 
As far as I know, churches deny weddings for other reasons as well.  Does that mean a church HAS to perform a ceremony!  I don't know about all that.
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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2009, 12:23:42 PM »
Bad Christian; bad bad bad ya hear me! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

I'm sure that you wear pants, make up, and jewelry, listen to secular music, go to movies and have the ocasional glass of pinot noir after diner too!  I dunno about this LaRue chick; she must be a bad apple.


  ;) ;D 







TIS A WITCH!!!   >:(


 ;) :)

Incognegro

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2009, 12:30:16 PM »
Can't be luke warm on this one....this is a stance either ur for it or against it.  And no stance means u support them.

Logic Fail.

Offline themidiroom

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2009, 12:34:48 PM »
Logic Fail.
Buffer Overflow Error.  Abort/Retry?
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Incognegro

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2009, 12:39:36 PM »
It's sad/disappointing to see people on a Christian website who are not opposed to homosexuals getting married.

 :(

Buffer Overflow Error.  Abort/Retry?

Yea, all dat too.

Offline themidiroom

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2009, 01:00:53 PM »
It's sad/disappointing to see people on a Christian website who are not opposed to homosexuals getting married.

 :(

Yea, all dat too.
They are getting married, just not in the legal sense. Now that I think of it, there have been a few heterosexual marriages I was opposed to.   ::)
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2009, 01:06:33 PM »
What about carbs?

They're healthy carbs...like vermicelli (which literaly means "little worms" in Italian).


You make a very good point in defining the legal differences between marriage and civil unions.  It seems then that the proponents for gay marriage would be in a better position if they put their ENERGY into getting the legal aspects of civil union changed.  In other words, go after equalizing the legal benefits of a civil union and a marriage without focusing on the emotional issue of forcing everyone to recognize it as a marriage. 

With that approach, gay couples could make their own spiritual commitment to each other, enjoy the tax, inheritance, medical, and other legal benefits that come with a LEGAL coupling (marriage) without co-opting the religious understandings of the word marriage.  I'm with you on the big picture.  Feel free to commit to each other, just don't call it marriage.  Deal with the LEGAL aspects and don't try to force people to change their perceptions of what's moral.

Peace,

James

Thing is that there are a lot of unsaved heterosexual people who get married and could care less about the sprititual aspect of it (for that matter, there are quite a few uninformed Christians who enter into marriage lightly without any regard for the spiritual).  In fact, proponents of gay marriage will argue that this isn't abut religion, but rather about having the rights and privilliges that they feel they deserve as American citizens.  So my question to you is this; why not call it a marriage?  If they are enjoying all the same legal and social benefits, then wouldn't it be a marriage by default?  Simply modifying existing laws to appease them and maintain the traditional definition of marriage will not work.  They want full equality and acceptance.
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Offline MissMusic04

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2009, 01:07:29 PM »
Can't be luke warm on this one....this is a stance either ur for it or against it.  And no stance means u support them.

No, it doesn't. ::)

Logic Fail.




Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2009, 01:10:08 PM »
It's sad/disappointing to see people on a Christian website who are not opposed to homosexuals getting married.

 :(

Yea, all dat too.

I don't think it should still be disappointing.  This subject has been discussed at least once every couple of months since I've been a member (and long before, according to the archives).  The outcome is always the same: there are some who are opposed, some who are in support, and some who are neutral or have no opinion at all.  Why would you expect this thread to show you anything different?  :-\

And btw, we might actually make a DIFFERENCE in the success of marriages if we were this outspoken about common law marriages, divorce, remarriage, and healthy marriage.
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Incognegro

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2009, 01:22:27 PM »
I don't think it should still be disappointing.  This subject has been discussed at least once every couple of months since I've been a member (and long before, according to the archives).  The outcome is always the same: there are some who are opposed, some who are in support, and some who are neutral or have no opinion at all.  Why would you expect this thread to show you anything different?  :-\

And btw, we might actually make a DIFFERENCE in the success of marriages if we were this outspoken about common law marriages, divorce, remarriage, and healthy marriage.


Should we speak out for healthy gay marriages also?   

Should we speak out against Gay marriages ending in divorce?
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