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Author Topic: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation  (Read 5155 times)

churchyreal

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Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« on: June 17, 2009, 04:46:22 PM »
As a whole our country is very individualistic. In other words our country puts a heavy focus on individual liberty, self-reliance and self-concern.


The other spectrum is being a collectivist nation. This is a nation that values the interest of the group and the group affect of particular things.


Basing off of personal life experiences and how things are ran in our country, do you think the US would be a better place if our country was more collectivist rather than individualist?

Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 07:36:23 PM »


COMMUNIST!!!! GET HIM!!!

Offline under13

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 07:49:15 PM »
SMH, I bet this is his Homework assignment or somethin.

Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 08:19:41 PM »
SMH, I bet this is his Homework assignment or somethin.

Seems like it huh?

I need to post mine! Never thought of that!

Offline under13

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 08:21:48 PM »
Seems like it huh?

I need to post mine! Never thought of that!

Me too lol, I hate writing papers

Offline lordluvr

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 08:43:35 PM »
Collectivism seemed to work just fine in the book of Acts, chapter 4: 

"32 ?  And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35  And laid them down at the apostles? feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

While the concept is fine, it won't work unless there is a total buy-in.  I doubt it would work in America.  Shoot, the church can't even get everyone to tithe....

Offline themidiroom

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 08:05:21 AM »
As a whole our country is very individualistic. In other words our country puts a heavy focus on individual liberty, self-reliance and self-concern.


The other spectrum is being a collectivist nation. This is a nation that values the interest of the group and the group affect of particular things.


Basing off of personal life experiences and how things are ran in our country, do you think the US would be a better place if our country was more collectivist rather than individualist?
I don't think there's anything wrong with individualism.  One of the problems we seem to have as a society is greed.  I think it's possible to strive to be a successful individual without being irresponsible towards the collective.  Unfortunately for some, it's an all or nothing deal.
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Offline Fingers!

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2009, 08:56:22 AM »
Collectivism seemed to work just fine in the book of Acts, chapter 4: 

"32 ?  And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35  And laid them down at the apostles? feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

While the concept is fine, it won't work unless there is a total buy-in.  I doubt it would work in America.  Shoot, the church can't even get everyone to tithe....

Not the same.  The Bible's example is collectivism in the name of Jesus Christ.  Without Jesus, it turns into Communism.

Offline themidiroom

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 09:38:21 AM »
Without Jesus, it turns into Communism.
Even without the government calling the shots?
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 09:54:48 AM »
Basing off of personal life experiences and how things are ran in our country, do you think the US would be a better place if our country was more collectivist rather than individualist?

 :o What would be the point of living in America? (although it would probably cut down on illegal imigration.)
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 10:17:59 AM »
For the record, collectivism is not the same thing as communalism (which is what Acts 4 displays).

Although collectivists do, as Churchy mentioned, focus on the greater good of the society than on individual benefits, collectivism is more about the collective management/government of society.  I guess the easiest way to explain it is that collectivism is more political than social, whereas communalism is more social than political.
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Offline Fingers!

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 12:03:17 PM »
Not the same.  The Bible's example is collectivism in the name of Jesus Christ.  Without Jesus, it turns into Communism.

I should had said there would be a strong inclination to go Communism, instead of referring that it will.

Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 03:15:23 PM »
For the record, collectivism is not the same thing as communalism (which is what Acts 4 displays).

Although collectivists do, as Churchy mentioned, focus on the greater good of the society than on individual benefits, collectivism is more about the collective management/government of society.  I guess the easiest way to explain it is that collectivism is more political than social, whereas communalism is more social than political.


Sounds the same to me.

Offline lordluvr

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 03:32:24 PM »
For the record, collectivism is not the same thing as communalism (which is what Acts 4 displays).


I think it depends upon which definition of communalism one uses.  If we're looking at it from a pure conceptual perspective, then I wholeheartedly agree with you.  If we're looking at it as a socio-political doctrine, then I'd say that Acts 4 leans more to being a collectivist society rather than a communalist one.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 03:51:29 PM »
I think it depends upon which definition of communalism one uses.  If we're looking at it from a pure conceptual perspective, then I wholeheartedly agree with you.  If we're looking at it as a socio-political doctrine, then I'd say that Acts 4 leans more to being a collectivist society rather than a communalist one.

I don't know if I can agree with that... the only definition of communalism that really applies is (from American Heritage):
1. Belief in or practice of communal ownership, as of goods and property.
2. Strong devotion to the interests of one's own minority or ethnic group rather than those of society as a whole.

The other definitions spoke to actual communes.  :-\

Collectivism is certainly more political in definition, and less social.

1. The principles or system of ownership and control of the means of production and distribution by the people collectively, usually under the supervision of a government. (from American Heritage)
2. the political principle of centralized social and economic control, esp. of all means of production. (from Random House)
3. The doctrine that land and capital should be owned by society collectively or as a whole; communism. --W. G. Summer. (from Websters)

I'm definitely no expert on this stuff, but I did study it in one of my Soc classes.

I could buy an argument that Acts 4 displays BOTH before I could agree to saying that Acts 4 leans more toward collectivism than communalism... but, it's kinda splitting hairs, so....


Sounds the same to me.

It's not, but I guess it's pretty close.
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Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2009, 04:19:00 PM »
I don't know if I can agree with that... the only definition of communalism that really applies is (from American Heritage):
1. Belief in or practice of communal ownership, as of goods and property.
2. Strong devotion to the interests of one's own minority or ethnic group rather than those of society as a whole.

The other definitions spoke to actual communes.  :-\

Collectivism is certainly more political in definition, and less social.

1. The principles or system of ownership and control of the means of production and distribution by the people collectively, usually under the supervision of a government. (from American Heritage)
2. the political principle of centralized social and economic control, esp. of all means of production. (from Random House)
3. The doctrine that land and capital should be owned by society collectively or as a whole; communism. --W. G. Summer. (from Websters)

I'm definitely no expert on this stuff, but I did study it in one of my Soc classes.

I could buy an argument that Acts 4 displays BOTH before I could agree to saying that Acts 4 leans more toward collectivism than communalism... but, it's kinda splitting hairs, so....


It's not, but I guess it's pretty close.

I think you missed definition number three. :)

Collectivism could be applied to groups, as stated:

Quote
2. Strong devotion to the interests of one's own minority or ethnic group rather than those of society as a whole.

Any definition, at least from an American dictionary, would look try to equate communism to authoritarianism, which is not the same.

Communism is collective ownership and control of production, government, and land. Although collectivism has additional definitions, when applied to a government, it means the same thing as communism.

With that said, there has never been a collectivist or communist government, for that matter. Those we've called communist were actually socialist or authoritarian.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2009, 04:24:25 PM »
I think you missed definition number three. :)

Collectivism could be applied to groups, as stated:

Any definition, at least from an American dictionary, would look try to equate communism to authoritarianism, which is not the same.

Communism is collective ownership and control of production, government, and land. Although collectivism has additional definitions, when applied to a government, it means the same thing as communism.

With that said, there has never been a collectivist or communist government, for that matter. Those we've called communist were actually socialist or authoritarian.

:-\ ?/?  Huh?  I didn't miss a definition... unless you're using that witty sarcasm thing that always goes over my head... lol.

Ok, wait... I just re-read what you posted.  I think you misunderstood my original assertion which is that communalism and collectivism are different.  You're referring to COMMUNISM (not communalism).  Those are two different practices, as well.  So, to clarify, there are three that have been mentioned in this thread:

collectivism
communalism
communism
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Offline pastor rob

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2009, 05:08:21 PM »
just a question, if practiced according to the spirit of what it was meant to be, is communism a bad thing? and no i'm not a communist. just a question we debated in school many moons ago.
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Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2009, 05:54:21 PM »
just a question, if practiced according to the spirit of what it was meant to be, is communism a bad thing? and no i'm not a communist. just a question we debated in school many moons ago.


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Offline T-Block

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Re: Individualist vs. Collectivist nation
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2009, 11:26:28 PM »
All I know is "Every man for himself and God for us all!" :D
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