Ministers or Mini-Stars?

[betnich]

If they thought that dominant 7th chords were of the Devil in their pure form, then how about about altered incarnations such as a 13th/b5?  If you really want to get devilish, you need to explore the usage of the diminished scale...that ought to send ya' straight to hell.   

You should have heard that evil Tritone (aug4th/dim5th) in the Baroque era, BEFORE Bach and Co. helped Equal Temperament come into common usage. There was this one tritone, Ab-D I think it was, that musicians called the 'Wolf Tone' because of how it howled...no wonder they called that tuning the 'Mean Tone' scale!!!

I just watched it again (just on a Nathan Simmons kick today), and another point I want to make that I believe is what he was getting at (around that 3:30? mark, I think) is that musicians should be seeking God and spending time in the presence of the Lord to get new material, lyrics, melodies, chords, etc. and not surfing Hot 97 or Kiss FM or Jazz 107 or whatever trying to get new chords. At least that's what it sounded like to me...

I don't think he was saying DON'T listen to jazz or DON'T play jazz, I think he was saying that jazz shouldn't be your source for music intended to set captives free.

Yes - listen, but don't be a slave to different styles of music - inspiration, not imitation...

[under13]

I have no idea. I can find out, if it matters enough. 

Is there a such thing as an "anointed chord" or "anointed progressions"???  I've never heard of such a thing.

I'm not sure I can do any justice to your question, but I think the point here is that there is a sound that can be played by anointed musicians to set captives free, to destroy yokes, to heal, to deliver, to liberate. I don't know if that sound has as much to do with certain chords or progressions as it does with purity of spirit, humility, dedication of the gift to God, and seeking Him in prayer.

And again, I think (in my limited knowledge) that's what Supt. Simmons was getting at.

[Fenix]

If folks all take the Jazz to heart, I wonder if we'll see a little more color in the White churches?

**Sigh**

I do sometimes get tired of the raw major and minor sound. I am even getting tired of the sus2 sound Israel is so fond of, with the droning B and E strings ringing out. Its so boring. You will almost NEVER hear an altered chord (in fact you will never hear one) in a Michael W Smith song. One of the few white artists i respect in terms of diversity of music is Don Moen. He occasionally ventures into the blues. 

[dingster1]

I am in the "come ye out from among them and be ye separate" camp. I refuse to believe that the God who commands that we "sing a new song" wants us to copy the world. While I agree that chords are chords, I cannot accept that we as anointed saints of the most high God have to copy ANYTHING that the world does. We are to be light and salt to them, they shouldn't be anything but witnessing opportunities to us, in every area. You can witness of God through the music that you play if you allow God to use you explicitly and pour His anointing into what you play/sing. Then the sound of Heaven will fill our temples and folks will be saved and delivered. Remember, Levites, we are praising prophets (1 Chr. 25:1) warring on our instruments, not clowning for the amusement of our homies.

exits stage right----------->

[sjonathan02]

As serious as I can sound (while typing), what exactly confuses you about LaRue's post?



It's interesting that we revisit this subject as the facilitator of our Music workshop was making the same points concerning a chord being a chord but it's the purity of spirit(the exact phrase, I promise you) of the musician that can set the captive free, etc.

[LaylaMonroe]

As serious as I can sound (while typing), what exactly confuses you about LaRue's post?



It's interesting that we revisit this subject as the facilitator of our Music workshop was making the same points concerning a chord being a chord but it's the purity of spirit(the exact phrase, I promise you) of the musician that can set the captive free, etc.

That's so funny to hear (see) you say (type) that. LOL 

But yeah, U13, what don't you get? Or are you just saying you disagree?

I am quite hesitant to wade too deeply into this conversation, as I'm not a musician and I probably can't relate to much of the argument you guys can present.  I don't know what dissonant means or sus or major or minor (though I know what minor sounds like... lol). I don't know about chord structure or progressions.  I don't know whether church chords are the same as jazz chords or R&B chords.  I don't know anything about that kinda stuff.  I just know the Bible.  And it makes pretty clear that captives can be set free by the playing of music.  Other passages show me that it takes a consecrated musician to effect change on a spiritual level; not just a talented one.

On another note, I just found out today is the late Supt. Nathan Simmons' birthday! Maybe that explains why I was listening to him all evening.    Anyway, happy birthday, Pastor Simmons!!! 

[Fenix]

I don't know what dissonant means

OK i want you to think back to the last time you were in church, and the preacher said something that hit your spirit, and the organist hit a chord at that very moment that made you shout out "Yes Lawd!!" or whatever you shout out when you "feel it". That chord right there is a dissonant chord.

[sjonathan02]

OK i want you to think back to the last time you were in church, and the preacher said something that hit your spirit, and the organist hit a chord at that very moment that made you shout out "Yes Lawd!!" or whatever you shout out when you "feel it". That chord right there is a dissonant chord.

    



















































  You's a wild dude.

[jivejong]

God has used unbelievers to do his will throughout the Bible, and I'm sure he can use "unbelieving music" to do the same. He is the Lord of All Creation.

- God used Pharoah to have his heart hardened so that he could inflict the 10 plagues, and allow the Hebrews to take silver and gold when they left Egypt.

- God used the nation of Babylon to teach his people and bring them back to him, and even gave that prophesy to Jeremiah.

- Cyrus King of Persia ordered a Temple to be built in Judah because God had given him the kingdoms of the earth.

- God used Abimelech to teach Abraham, as well as provide for him.

- In the story of Esther, God used Xerxes to save the Jews from destruction.

- Even under captivity, God used the Roman centurions and captors of Paul to carry out his will and message, such as on the boat in the storm.

Yeah, so I think God can use a Jazz chord to do His will, even if people believe it isn't of Him. If He can use the King of Babylon, Pharoah, Abimelech, and Roman Centurions, He can certainly use a dominant 7th chord or wayward muscian to build his kingdom and work His will.

[LaylaMonroe]

God has used unbelievers to do his will throughout the Bible, and I'm sure he can use "unbelieving music" to do the same. He is the Lord of All Creation.

- God used Pharoah to have his heart hardened so that he could inflict the 10 plagues, and allow the Hebrews to take silver and gold when they left Egypt.

- God used the nation of Babylon to teach his people and bring them back to him, and even gave that prophesy to Jeremiah.

- Cyrus King of Persia ordered a Temple to be built in Judah because God had given him the kingdoms of the earth.

- God used Abimelech to teach Abraham, as well as provide for him.

- In the story of Esther, God used Xerxes to save the Jews from destruction.

- Even under captivity, God used the Roman centurions and captors of Paul to carry out his will and message, such as on the boat in the storm.

Yeah, so I think God can use a Jazz chord to do His will, even if people believe it isn't of Him. If He can use the King of Babylon, Pharoah, Abimelech, and Roman Centurions, He can certainly use a dominant 7th chord or wayward muscian to build his kingdom and work His will.

If that's the summary of your point, I think you may have missed the point. 

No one (or at least not me) is saying that God "can't" use a jazz chord to do His will.  I think we all agree that God is sovereign and can do whatever He wants to do whether we agree, understand, or like it. That wasn't the point at all.

[Fenix]

    

No, but am i wrong? More often than not, those preacher chords are dissonant chords.

[sjonathan02]

No, but am i wrong? More often than not, those preacher chords are dissonant chords.

I wouldn't categorize it like that. At the same time, I can't say that a chord made me go, 'Yes, Lord.', either. 


BTW, how've you been, bruh?

[LaylaMonroe]

Yeah, rarely (if ever) am I moved to exclaim "yes Lord" by a chord.

[Fenix]

I wouldn't categorize it like that. At the same time, I can't say that a chord made me go, 'Yes, Lord.', either. 


BTW, how've you been, bruh?

I have been fine. Add me on FB. I command you.

Yeah, rarely (if ever) am I moved to exclaim "yes Lord" by a chord.

Interesting.

A guest guitarist came to our church once and was playing around and such when he hit this chord! The other keyboardist and i went "OUCH!!!!" I literally shivered with pleasure.

I mean this chord was downright sweet!!

[sjonathan02]

I have been fine. Add me on FB. I command you.

Is your name the same on FB?

[phatstrings]

Think David who,without have the quality of books and tutorial videos that today's musicians have still helped Saul with his music.That is anointing.Now,fast forward to 2009 with all the theory knowledge and riffs in his arsenal and you'll still get the same result.I guess the point here is that we as musicians shouldn't neglect the word and personal fellowship for the sole reason of wowing the crowd with our skills.

[funkStrat_97]

Before you read this, PLEASE note that this is just a simple, honest inquiry. I am not presenting this as fact, law, gospel, blasting, calling out or anything...it's just a simple inquiry.

I don't know...I honestly think that the things church folk label "Anointed" are actually just sounds they've been conditioned to really like.
Like I said...just a question.

This is true.  As far as I am concrened, there are harmonies and melodies that just elicit a strong emotional reaction in people which is often interpreted as being the anointing or a manifestaiton of "the move of God".

[B3Wannabe]

Think David who,without have the quality of books and tutorial videos that today's musicians have still helped Saul with his music.That is anointing.Now,fast forward to 2009 with all the theory knowledge and riffs in his arsenal and you'll still get the same result.I guess the point here is that we as musicians shouldn't neglect the word and personal fellowship for the sole reason of wowing the crowd with our skills.

Uh. No.

Music has been around for a veeeeeery long time. I'm sure there were book and secular music schools available. The bible doesn't speak how David was trained, so we can't assume.

[gtrdave]

No, but am i wrong? More often than not, those preacher chords are dissonant chords.

Hmmm...that's not how I would describe "dissonance" in regards to chords.
Dissonance means "unrest" and dissonant chords are typically unresolved and can sound unpleasant on their own, sort of like laying your forearm across a bunch of white and black keys at the same time.
They don't make me go "Yes, Lawd!", but instead make me go "Please, stop!". 

[LaylaMonroe]

Uh. No.

Music has been around for a veeeeeery long time. I'm sure there were book and secular music schools available. The bible doesn't speak how David was trained, so we can't assume.

He didn't say there weren't books available, he spoke only to the quality of books.  He said that they didn't have the quality of books available that today's musicians have.

On that regard, I'm inclined to agree. As I've said, I don't know the first thing about music, but it's not hard to tell that just about everything has gotten better - or at least more detailed - with time. Our knowledge has evolved. We know more about diseases, about foods, about nature, about computers, about the Word of God, about everything... you name it, we (humankind) pretty much know more about it today than we did 1000-10,000 years ago.  I think that's what he was getting at.