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Author Topic: Ministers or Mini-Stars?  (Read 5901 times)

Offline axeman1

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2009, 08:48:06 PM »
Before you read this, PLEASE note that this is just a simple, honest inquiry. I am not presenting this as fact, law, gospel, blasting, calling out or anything...it's just a simple inquiry.

I don't know...I honestly think that the things church folk label "Anointed" are actually just sounds they've been conditioned to really like. I've done some services at Churches that aren't predominantly pentecostal/apostolic or whatever...and the same progressions that would send the Churches that ARE predominantly pentecostal/apostolic into a crazy fit of worship without fail would NEVER fly over there. They'd look at you much in the same manner as if I started playing Waltz in a Pentecostal church. If we all serve the same God, and these chords are 'anointed' by Him...wouldn't they transcend all barriers? It's sort of like Kirk's take on prosperity preaching...if the same prosperity message preached in Atlanta can't be preached in Uganda, is it really the Biblical definition of prosperity?

Like I said...just a question.

Very good observations and excellent points.!!  I have been making these points for years.  What we consider 'annointed', 'worldly' or 'dry and uninspiring' has more to do with our cultural background and our personal preferences than we want to believe.

I still find it funny how many people of all different persuasions love to slap a 'God' label on their own personal likes and dislikes and condemn everyone that has different likes/dislikes.
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Offline betnich

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2009, 08:51:05 PM »
True dat...

Offline jivejong

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2009, 08:52:03 PM »
If that's the summary of your point, I think you may have missed the point.  :-\

No one (or at least not me) is saying that God "can't" use a jazz chord to do His will.  I think we all agree that God is sovereign and can do whatever He wants to do whether we agree, understand, or like it. That wasn't the point at all.

OK, then I'll expand on it. Say it's not just the Jazz chord, but the spirit of the chord, or the way musicians play, or their motives. I still say God can use those things for his will, and for redemption. The people I have mentioned in scripture who were not believers also did not do what they did in the proper spirit or had Godly motives. Jonah was not in the right spirit when God sent him to Nineveh. There were times when the Disciples didn't act in the proper spirit, such as wanting to know who will sit at Jesus's right hand side or openly denying Him, but they were still used for redemption.

There is nothing God cannot redeem. There are plenty of folks who go to church for all the wrong reasons, and still manage to become transformed or transform others, regardless of the side of the altar they are working from.

As far as influences, Jesus does say in passages such as the parable of the shrewd manager that we need to be wise in our stewardship of worldly things. I consider the stewardship of worldly things to include stuff such as science, art, music, etc.

Offline phatstrings

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2009, 01:45:10 AM »
You said it well Rue.B3, I was not  making an allusion to whether or how David was trained.The bible says he's cunning on the harp.Dude knew his stuff.But that didn't account for why his music drove away demonic spirit.With his skill were those qualities that made God call him 'a man after my heart'.Add those 'other' qualities to the amazing pool of talent that we have in church now and the move of God will be more apparent in our services. 
i shall not die but live!

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2009, 07:49:35 AM »
What I heard in respect to the music comments was not that the Jazz Chords were evil, but that there are musicians whose goal is to put on a jam session instead of being lead by the spirit and that a Jam Session isn't gonna save someone, but an anoited instrumental can deliver someone......That's just what I heard.


I spent 10 min. yesterday trying to say the very thing you stated so eloquently.
Thank you.


Me too.   (And it's good to know I'm not the only one who experiences that).  :D :D


Recap:

"Instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit they're listening to jazz & the r&b stations.  They're taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church.  That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out."

He referred to 'tunes', but he also referred to chords specifically.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this.



Fortunately I keep this page as a favorite. (thanks again sjon)  :)

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2009, 08:02:43 AM »
Recap:

"Instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit they're listening to jazz & the r&b stations.  They're taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church.  That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out."

He referred to 'tunes', but he also referred to chords specifically.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this.



Fortunately I keep this page as a favorite. (thanks again sjon)  :)


But again, I don't think he was saying that the chords themselves were evil, or that they were preventing demons from being cast out. I believe he was saying that because some (many?) musicians aren't seeking God and spending time in His presence to get divine inspiration for their music, they aren't really ministering in the spirit on "THAT" level, they're just playing well.

I mean, I'm probably asking the wrong bunch here, but let's just be real... how many musicians really spend as much time in prayer (regarding music, I mean) as they do listening to other stuff to pick up new chords? I'm not saying one must spend 2 hours on their knees and 2 hours listening to other music, but what Supt. Simmons is saying (I think) is that we can accomplish a greater level of power in our gifts - all of us, not just musicians - if we spend more time in the presence of the Lord, considering HIM our primary source for knowledge, skill, anointing, talent, etc.  He's saying (I think) that the Holy Ghost should be our source, not XYZ artist.

At least that's the way I took it...  :-\
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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2009, 08:20:32 AM »
"Instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit they're listening to jazz & the r&b stations.  They're taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church.  That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out."

But again, I don't think he was saying that the chords themselves were evil, or that they were preventing demons from being cast out. I believe he was saying that because some (many?) musicians aren't seeking God and spending time in His presence to get divine inspiration for their music, they aren't really ministering in the spirit on "THAT" level, they're just playing well.

I mean, I'm probably asking the wrong bunch here, but let's just be real... how many musicians really spend as much time in prayer (regarding music, I mean) as they do listening to other stuff to pick up new chords? I'm not saying one must spend 2 hours on their knees and 2 hours listening to other music, but what Supt. Simmons is saying (I think) is that we can accomplish a greater level of power in our gifts - all of us, not just musicians - if we spend more time in the presence of the Lord, considering HIM our primary source for knowledge, skill, anointing, talent, etc.  He's saying (I think) that the Holy Ghost should be our source, not XYZ artist.

At least that's the way I took it...  :-\


Hun, you're making points that he was nowhere NEAR making. :D

He concentrated on the music.  NOT on spending time with God.  He concentrated on Jazz & R&B.  After saying they're "taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church", his NEXT comment was "That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out.

What you're saying makes very much sense, but it ain't what HE said.   :D

I'm all for a difference of opinion, but you seem to be giving some revisionist history.

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2009, 08:28:34 AM »
Well, since you can't ask him, you don't know for sure what he meant, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

I'm always a supporter of seeking God for creativity.  To me, studying another artist for inspiration is cool, but where did they get theirs from?  The most original admired musicians had to come up with their stuff from somewhere.  If God can give it to them, how come he can't give you your own original style instead of just learning to copy someone else?

The only reason the greats in history are so foundational is because they came on the scene a long time ago and were able to do something that wasn't widely done.  Why can't you be the next "great"? 

Don't get me wrong, I get trying to learn and understand what's already been done, rather than reinvent the wheel, but sometimes I think we put God in a box, and if it hasn't been done or proven by those we respect as pioneers or geniuses in the field, we don't even give it a second look.  We underestimate ourselves and our God.

God CREATED music, you mean to tell me he's gonna give more insight, revelation, and talent to people who don't use it for him, than those who are using it to worship him?  I think Nathan Simmons was onto something.  Maybe it's not that God won't give it to us, but that we don't seek Him for it, rather we think what's been done and what's out there now is the BEST and we need to get what they have because we couldn't possibly come up with better.

Offline dingster1

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2009, 08:31:38 AM »
^^I'm with her and La Rue

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2009, 08:33:12 AM »

Hun, you're making points that he was nowhere NEAR making. :D

He concentrated on the music.  NOT on spending time with God.  He concentrated on Jazz & R&B.  After saying they're "taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church", his NEXT comment was "That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out.

What you're saying makes very much sense, but it ain't what HE said.   :D

I'm all for a difference of opinion, but you seem to be giving some revisionist history.


I listened to the entire clip, not just the sentences you quoted.  In context (and even in the part you posted), he did indeed talk about spending time with God ("instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit...")

I definitely don't agree that what I said (specifically the parts you put in blue) are different from what he was saying... but...

We can agree to disagree on this lovely Monday morning.  :)
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Incognegro

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2009, 08:40:57 AM »
We can agree to disagree on this lovely Monday morning.  :)

This part I'll go with.    :-*

Incognegro

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2009, 08:49:19 AM »
We can agree to disagree on this lovely Monday morning.  :)

Speaking of 'lovely', nice avatar.   :)

Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2009, 08:50:47 AM »
He didn't say there weren't books available, he spoke only to the quality of books. He said that they didn't have the quality of books available that today's musicians have.

On that regard, I'm inclined to agree. As I've said, I don't know the first thing about music, but it's not hard to tell that just about everything has gotten better - or at least more detailed - with time. Our knowledge has evolved. We know more about diseases, about foods, about nature, about computers, about the Word of God, about everything... you name it, we (humankind) pretty much know more about it today than we did 1000-10,000 years ago.  I think that's what he was getting at.

1. And you two know this how?

2. I'll agree with that, but I disagree that our knowledge and understanding has increased with everything. I'm sure there are things they knew then, that we may have lost, because of technology. Sixty years ago, you actually had to remember formulas, but now we have calculators. Forty years ago, you had to know how to write and apply grammar, but now we have computers. Twenty years ago, you had to go to the library or school to learn, but now we have the Internet.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2009, 08:56:07 AM »
Well, since you can't ask him, you don't know for sure what he meant, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

I'm always a supporter of seeking God for creativity.  To me, studying another artist for inspiration is cool, but where did they get theirs from?  The most original admired musicians had to come up with their stuff from somewhere.  If God can give it to them, how come he can't give you your own original style instead of just learning to copy someone else?

The only reason the greats in history are so foundational is because they came on the scene a long time ago and were able to do something that wasn't widely done.  Why can't you be the next "great"?  

Don't get me wrong, I get trying to learn and understand what's already been done, rather than reinvent the wheel, but sometimes I think we put God in a box, and if it hasn't been done or proven by those we respect as pioneers or geniuses in the field, we don't even give it a second look.  We underestimate ourselves and our God.

God CREATED music, you mean to tell me he's gonna give more insight, revelation, and talent to people who don't use it for him, than those who are using it to worship him?  I think Nathan Simmons was onto something.
  Maybe it's not that God won't give it to us, but that we don't seek Him for it, rather we think what's been done and what's out there now is the BEST and we need to get what they have because we couldn't possibly come up with better.

OMG... to where can I send your offering??!!!!!!

You hit the nail on the head with that one, sis.

----------------------------------------------------

Changing the subject slightly, I hate for the rest of the clip to get lost on that one part. He said some really good stuff that we need to heed concerning the singers and actors who take the "stage." How many churches practice putting up the one who is anointed and living a holy life, versus putting up the one who will "tear the church up," or will "sing them into a frenzy?" Fortunately, I can say that I've seen the contrary, but way too many times, I've seen exactly what Supt. Simmons is talking about -- ESPECIALLY in Atlanta. Ugh. It's just horrible.

The body of Christ as a whole, and the members of the body individually, need to go back to spending time with the Lord and seeking His presence. [tangent] Our generation just has way too many distractions with all these new hobbies, movies, games, tv shows, internet forums, and everything else that stands in the way of our time with the Lord. The other day, I wrote down the activities I do each day, and how much time I spend on each of them (eating, working out, sleeping, reading, watching TV, posting on internet forums, posting on FB, returning or composing e-mail, ministering, praying, studying the Word, etc.) and... well, I'm not even going to tell you how unbalanced my days are... lol.  I spend a lot of time praying and studying, but not nearly as much as I do with all the other "activities." [/tangent]
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Incognegro

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2009, 09:18:59 AM »
Well, since you can't ask him, you don't know for sure what he meant, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

God CREATED music, you mean to tell me he's gonna give more insight, revelation, and talent to people who don't use it for him, than those who are using it to worship him?  I think Nathan Simmons was onto something.  Maybe it's not that God won't give it to us, but that we don't seek Him for it, rather we think what's been done and what's out there now is the BEST and we need to get what they have because we couldn't possibly come up with better.

You hit the nail on the head with that one, sis.

I don't have to ask him what he meant.  He SAID what he meant.  Clearly.

Should you pray for inspiration?  Yes. 
Should you stop seeking knowledge about your craft and await inspiration?  NO. 

This is the equivalent of praying for a house and not saving your money, or praying for a car without getting a license.

What Mr. Simmons did was criticize those who listen to jazz music.  Listen to the way he said it.

"Instead of getting chords in the spirit, they're listening to jaaaazz."

As if something is wrong with that.  As if it's a sin.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2009, 09:23:56 AM »
I don't have to ask him what he meant.  He SAID what he meant.  Clearly.

Should you pray for inspiration?  Yes. 
Should you stop seeking knowledge about your craft and await inspiration?  NO. 

This is the equivalent of praying for a house and not saving your money, or praying for a car without getting a license.

What Mr. Simmons did was criticize those who listen to jazz music.  Listen to the way he said it.

"Instead of getting chords in the spirit, they're listening to jaaaazz."

As if something is wrong with that.  As if it's a sin.


Two things I don't like about this post...

1. The way you formatted part of Nessa's post and then quoted me beneath it implies that my comment was related to the part you bolded. I mean, people can scroll up to see what I was really cosigning, but still... that's kinda inaccurate.  :-\

2. Why are you calling him "Mr. Simmons"?  :-\ ?/?

IRT the rest... we already agreed to disagree, so I'll leave that at that... lol.
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2009, 09:29:51 AM »
Speaking of 'lovely', nice avatar.   :)

Oh snap, I missed that.  Thanks!  :-* (<--- holy kiss)  :D :D
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Incognegro

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2009, 09:30:51 AM »
Two things I don't like about this post...

1. The way you formatted part of Nessa's post and then quoted me beneath it implies that my comment was related to the part you bolded. I mean, people can scroll up to see what I was really cosigning, but still... that's kinda inaccurate.  :-\

2. Why are you calling him "Mr. Simmons"?  :-\ ?/?

IRT the rest... we already agreed to disagree, so I'll leave that at that... lol.

1. I thought you cosigned the whole post, seeing as you didn't bold anything for specification.  Also, you ARE inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.  I bolded that portion to show what I was responding to.  I wasn't trying to cause any confusion.

2. Something wrong with that?   ?/?

Incognegro

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2009, 09:32:13 AM »
1. I thought you cosigned the whole post, seeing as you didn't bold anything for specification.  Also, you ARE inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.  I bolded that portion to show what I was responding to.  I wasn't trying to cause any confusion.

2. Something wrong with that?   ?/?

oops.  You DID bold something for specification.   :D

That's my bad.

Offline 3rd-Day

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Re: Ministers or Mini-Stars?
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2009, 09:34:56 AM »
oops.  You DID bold something for specification.   :D

That's my bad.

DUDE SMH!! Your avatar comes from one of the funniest youtube videos that I have ever seen! HANDS DOWN!! :D :D :D
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