Longer School Days???

[sistagurl]

There is enough stress on students and teachers to cope with all that's learned and taught now. They'd go to shool for eight hours come home and have homework for however many hours. They have practically taking PE out of school. So there is no release during the day.

My daughters teacher is already talking about how they are adding to the curriculum every other day. She says it's getting harder and harder to teach what they have to learn. So I can imaging how much more they'd try to cram in that time frame for them to learn. I agree that there would just probably be more dicipline problems and things of that nature. And more children falling behind.

[LadyWiz]

As a former educator, I'm against it.

It's as simple as diminishing marginal returns. It's hard enough to get kids to pay attention and learn in a 6 hour day, and I don't see how an 8 hour day will benefit most kids. I'm sure that for some it will be a advantage, but I don't believe it will be for most. Teachers work alot outside of class, and adding 2 hours to their workday isn't going to improve their productivity. School districts are already underfunded and under supported, and I don't see where they will get the support for 2 additional hours of instruction. And if you are going to take the instruction out of it, then school is just daycare/parenting. We already let the schools "parent" our children enough as it is.

One of the key elements for child development is play time outside of adults. With a 8-5 day, sinner, homework, etc. where does a child have time to play with their friends in a less structured environment? I guess on weekends, but with play being a part of child development, I feel they need more than a couple days a week. Play may seem trvial, but it's where were learn to interact with peers, have accountability to them, take personal responsibility for conflict, learn problem solving, the creation and adherence to rules, calculating risks, etc. There's so much development in something that adults may see as "wasting time". But if all a child's activities are those structured by adults, where do they learn personal accountability, independence, creativity, etc.?

Cosign on all of the above! 

FWIW, when my Mom went to school in Korea, they went year round. 8-4, including a 1/2 day on Saturday.

How'd that work for her?

[jivejong]

Add to that, when does an educator take the time to improve themselves and further their career?


8-5 and only two weeks off in the summer? A teacher can't attend a grad school class forget a grad school program.

Very good point.

But maybe that's where gummint is looking to get their funding for longer school days. With the reduction in continuing education for teachers, and the increases in payscale that comes with it, they could save a bunch of money. 

Another thing to consider is planning and resource time for the teacher. As an educator, I wouldn't mind if 8-5 included time for planning. Then I would have time to attend grad school at night. But if I had to teach 8-5, and then grade papers, talk to parents, and deal with administrative issues, after that, where's the time for professional development, let alone family time?

[sjonathan02]

Very good point.

But maybe that's where gummint is looking to get their funding for longer school days. With the reduction in continuing education for teachers, and the increases in payscale that comes with it, they could save a bunch of money. 

Another thing to consider is planning and resource time for the teacher. As an educator, I wouldn't mind if 8-5 included time for planning. Then I would have time to attend grad school at night. But if I had to teach 8-5, and then grade papers, talk to parents, and deal with administrative issues, after that, where's the time for professional development, let alone family time?

Exactly.

[Mysteryman]

Bad idea I agree with letting kids be kids. They must plan on raising teacher pay an extra 10k. Going to teach them to work, work, work. I think it's just going to denegrate the family structure even more. It may help some parents who work those hours so the get home at the same time. lol For those with kids in public schools that are  a little rough, who really wants their kid in that long.

Teachers already come in early then have to do all the extra work. You will have a school full of frustrated teachers. After a while someone will break.   It can also become a problem planning family vacations.  I think Obama is off on this one.

[betnich]

wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

I agree with it, except I would keep Summer breaks and vacations.
The difference nowadays is that parents are much more likely to be at work than at home. Extending hours (and adding activities such as arts, sports, study hall, etc.) could keep kids off the streets and out of trouble...

[B3Wannabe]

In the end, my main reason for supporting this is that increasing school hours is possibly more beneficial for the students than keeping them the same or decreasing.

I'm for it, as long as they don't touch homeschooling. If they wanted to make "school" mandatory, I'd be out with pitchforks and torches!

[jivejong]

How'd that work for her?

My mother is the most hardworking and disciplined person I know (other than temper). She used to be able to do the work of 10 men, but since she's gotten older, she can only do the work of 5. Still loves to learn new things at the age of 70, and still works part-time as a pharmacist in the ICU. So for her, it worked out well.

My mom and I talked about it the differences in schooling, and she agrees with longer school days, and 6 days of school. But, back then and in Korea, teachers were afforded much more respect. There were no parents on the teachers back, let alone a kid who got sassy. Teachers were almost like gods back then, and you listened and your parents wanted you to listen. Discipline was an important aspect of the classroom. I think the respect that teachers got, and parental support made the longer school weeks more manageable.

[gtrdave]

Make more efficient use of the time we now have and do not add to it.
Seems like the typical school year in this nation has changed little and yet decades ago we were producing folks who could work anywhere from the service industry to manufacturing to engineering, all with a basic high school graduate-level education.
Now, we have kids who can operate devices that are much more high-tech than most of us could ever dream of when we were younger, yet someone wants to keep them in school longer to learn...what, exactly?

No, instead why don't we manage the time better, eliminate the distractions and not put an extra burden on teachers and facilitators when that's the last thing they need.

To me, it all begins with 'the home'. Get that straight and positive results should follow.

[Mysteryman]

I think he should focus on getting the parents better jobs and more pay.    Make it where the parents can work 8-5pm. And not on 4 days off 3, this week or month I work 2-11pm then third shift next week. Jobs are crazy now which adds to the problem. My job had me working overtime then wanted you to work some weekends on top of that. Then they want you involved in the other company stuff outside normal working hours. Thank God he turned all that around. I'm thinking when do people have time for their family or just to rest and not think about work.

[LaylaMonroe]

Another thing to consider is planning and resource time for the teacher. As an educator, I wouldn't mind if 8-5 included time for planning. Then I would have time to attend grad school at night. But if I had to teach 8-5, and then grade papers, talk to parents, and deal with administrative issues, after that, where's the time for professional development, let alone family time?

Add to that, when does an educator take the time to improve themselves and further their career?


8-5 and only two weeks off in the summer? A teacher can't attend a grad school class forget a grad school program.

Maybe SOME teachers couldn't with that schedule, but I know many who do. Most of the faculty at my daughter's former school were in grad school, and they worked longer than 8-5.

Now that I think of it, most working adults work 8-5 or longer, and many are in grad school. We may not have to grade papers and everything else teachers do outside of 8-3, but many of us take work home, work PT jobs, have children, spouses, etc. and can still manage grad school.

...not trying to be the expert; just presenting another opinion.

Oh and btw, the 8-5 programs aren't like the 8-3 schools... this is also in response to something Koda asked but I don't feel like finding it.

The 8-5 day includes what would otherwise be considered extracurricular, study hall, counseling, etc. I doubt it works the same in every school, but in my daughter's school, her teachers had at least an hour (could've been more) to do the paper grading and other administrative stuff.

Another thing about her school is that parents were required to commit to a certain number of volunteer hours per quarter. It was a small number, like 3 hours, I think, but it helped. We graded papers, monitored the class during tests, kept the kids quiet, monitored recess, etc.

[4hisglory]

I think it won't help, if the parents aren't already involved.

My child's school had training on Saturday to help prepare the kids for standardize testing, and in the ENTIRE school (Grades K - 6) only about 12 kids showed up. 

It all boil down to the  parents

[jivejong]

Maybe SOME teachers couldn't with that schedule, but I know many who do. Most of the faculty at my daughter's former school were in grad school, and they worked longer than 8-5.

Now that I think of it, most working adults work 8-5 or longer, and many are in grad school. We may not have to grade papers and everything else teachers do outside of 8-3, but many of us take work home, work PT jobs, have children, spouses, etc. and can still manage grad school.

...not trying to be the expert; just presenting another opinion.

Oh and btw, the 8-5 programs aren't like the 8-3 schools... this is also in response to something Koda asked but I don't feel like finding it.

The 8-5 day includes what would otherwise be considered extracurricular, study hall, counseling, etc. I doubt it works the same in every school, but in my daughter's school, her teachers had at least an hour (could've been more) to do the paper grading and other administrative stuff.

Another thing about her school is that parents were required to commit to a certain number of volunteer hours per quarter. It was a small number, like 3 hours, I think, but it helped. We graded papers, monitored the class during tests, kept the kids quiet, monitored recess, etc.

Just a question....
Is your daughter's school one that has a waiting list, or lottery to get into?
If so, then it usually means that there is strong parental involvement. If there is strong parental involvement, then it usually reduces the workload for the teacher. Also these schools tend to attract more qualified and experienced teachers.

Sure there are folks who work an 8-5 who still manage to do grad school and such, but some pay dearly in their families, relationships, or personal growth. Jobs where folks take their work home usually pay a whole lot more. My day job is a computer programmer, and I put in as much overtime as I did when I was high school teacher. But, I get paid double what I did as a teacher. Which means when the work load is too busy, I can afford to go out to eat when I'm too tired to cook, I can hire a cleaning lady to fix up the house after neglecting it due to work responsibilities, and I can afford a vacation to refresh myself when I'm feeling burnt out. When I was a young teacher, I could afford none of these things.

There's just ALOT of work to be done outside of the classroom. A one hour planning period is a joke. When I taught HS, I had 4 classes of around 40 students. That means grading 160 papers. I don't think I could grade 160 quizzes in an hour, let alone 160 essays and do it any justice. And grading papers is only a part of it. There's also the administrative part, and the communication with parents. But really those things take the least amount of time compared to planning. I also had to come up with my own lesson plans. That takes more than an hour to do it right. I had to do my research, get my materials, and come up with a plan. Even going to the store to get materials could take more than an hour. And in some schools, the teacher not only comes up with their own lesson plans, but their whole cirriculum. If you want to do your students justice, you have to put in ALOT of work. As a young teacher, I didn't have a file cabinet full of lesson plans to pick from like some of the vets, I had to make them myself for every class, as well as design a cirriculum for the year based on some very loose guidelines.

But that's just my experience, and others will vary.

[kodacolor]

But, I'd also like to add that although I'm against longer school days, I am for year round school. There's just too much lost in the summer months, and as a society we don't require a summer break like we did when most folks were farmers. A few breaks in between quarters is plenty. I don't think it's best for kids to have three months off where they lose some of the 9 months spent in instruction, especially when these kids have not developed the mental capacity to retain information without repetition.

FWIW, when my Mom went to school in Korea, they went year round. 8-4, including a 1/2 day on Saturday.

Co-sign to the bold part.

[B3Wannabe]

I think it won't help, if the parents aren't already involved.

My child's school had training on Saturday to help prepare the kids for standardize testing, and in the ENTIRE school (Grades K - 6) only about 12 kids showed up. 

It all boil down to the  parents

LOL

I'm guessing your son's school only has one room, with 45 students max.

[LaylaMonroe]

Just a question....
Is your daughter's school one that has a waiting list, or lottery to get into?
If so, then it usually means that there is strong parental involvement. If there is strong parental involvement, then it usually reduces the workload for the teacher. Also these schools tend to attract more qualified and experienced teachers.

Sure there are folks who work an 8-5 who still manage to do grad school and such, but some pay dearly in their families, relationships, or personal growth. Jobs where folks take their work home usually pay a whole lot more. My day job is a computer programmer, and I put in as much overtime as I did when I was high school teacher. But, I get paid double what I did as a teacher. Which means when the work load is too busy, I can afford to go out to eat when I'm too tired to cook, I can hire a cleaning lady to fix up the house after neglecting it due to work responsibilities, and I can afford a vacation to refresh myself when I'm feeling burnt out. When I was a young teacher, I could afford none of these things.

There's just ALOT of work to be done outside of the classroom. A one hour planning period is a joke. When I taught HS, I had 4 classes of around 40 students. That means grading 160 papers. I don't think I could grade 160 quizzes in an hour, let alone 160 essays and do it any justice. And grading papers is only a part of it. There's also the administrative part, and the communication with parents. But really those things take the least amount of time compared to planning. I also had to come up with my own lesson plans. That takes more than an hour to do it right. I had to do my research, get my materials, and come up with a plan. Even going to the store to get materials could take more than an hour. And in some schools, the teacher not only comes up with their own lesson plans, but their whole cirriculum. If you want to do your students justice, you have to put in ALOT of work. As a young teacher, I didn't have a file cabinet full of lesson plans to pick from like some of the vets, I had to make them myself for every class, as well as design a cirriculum for the year based on some very loose guidelines.

But that's just my experience, and others will vary.

I think most, if not all, teachers would agree and say they have the same experience. I have four sisters and three of them are teachers (one Christian school in DC, one public middle school in MD, one high school in NC). I know all of them agree. LOL! 

I just typed something about salaries and workload and hours, but I deleted it... lol. Not in the mood to argue... in any case, I do understand that during the school year, teachers put in a lot of hours. My baby sister's work day was from 7:00a to 2:30p, and she rarely left before 5:00p.  Teachers are grossly, severely underpaid, IMO... but like I told her, $35k with 3 months off isn't the worst case scenario.

sure it'd be difficult for a teacher to do grad school, but it's possible. It's no more difficult for teachers than it is for many other working adults. That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure how many hours the average teacher works (I can ask my sisters, or perhaps I can find a reliable statistic), but I know that if you want something badly enough, you'll find a way.

IRT my daughter's school. She's not there anymore; she's 19 now, and this was the school she attended from 5th through 8th grades. There was a waiting list to get in, and there is very strong parental involvement because it is required. Children will actually be removed from the school if the parents don't do their quarterly volunteer hours.  But the teachers were not more qualified or more experienced than those she had in her other previous or later schools. Oh, and they didn't have just the one hour planning period. They had the study period, the planning period during the 3-5 hours, AND the regular planning period that many teachers get during the 8-3 hours.

[sjonathan02]

I think most, if not all, teachers would agree and say they have the same experience. I have four sisters and three of them are teachers (one Christian school in DC, one public middle school in MD, one high school in NC). I know all of them agree. LOL! 

I just typed something about salaries and workload and hours, but I deleted it... lol. Not in the mood to argue... in any case, I do understand that during the school year, teachers put in a lot of hours. My baby sister's work day was from 7:00a to 2:30p, and she rarely left before 5:00p.  Teachers are grossly, severely underpaid, IMO... but like I told her, $35k with 3 months off isn't the worst case scenario.

sure it'd be difficult for a teacher to do grad school, but it's possible. It's no more difficult for teachers than it is for many other working adults. That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure how many hours the average teacher works (I can ask my sisters, or perhaps I can find a reliable statistic), but I know that if you want something badly enough, you'll find a way.

IRT my daughter's school. She's not there anymore; she's 19 now, and this was the school she attended from 5th through 8th grades. There was a waiting list to get in, and there is very strong parental involvement because it is required. Children will actually be removed from the school if the parents don't do their quarterly volunteer hours.  But the teachers were not more qualified or more experienced than those she had in her other previous or later schools. Oh, and they didn't have just the one hour planning period. They had the study period, the planning period during the 3-5 hours, AND the regular planning period that many teachers get during the 8-3 hours.

That needs to be a universal educational law.

[jivejong]

I think most, if not all, teachers would agree and say they have the same experience. I have four sisters and three of them are teachers (one Christian school in DC, one public middle school in MD, one high school in NC). I know all of them agree. LOL! 

I just typed something about salaries and workload and hours, but I deleted it... lol. Not in the mood to argue... in any case, I do understand that during the school year, teachers put in a lot of hours. My baby sister's work day was from 7:00a to 2:30p, and she rarely left before 5:00p.  Teachers are grossly, severely underpaid, IMO... but like I told her, $35k with 3 months off isn't the worst case scenario.

sure it'd be difficult for a teacher to do grad school, but it's possible. It's no more difficult for teachers than it is for many other working adults. That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure how many hours the average teacher works (I can ask my sisters, or perhaps I can find a reliable statistic), but I know that if you want something badly enough, you'll find a way.

IRT my daughter's school. She's not there anymore; she's 19 now, and this was the school she attended from 5th through 8th grades. There was a waiting list to get in, and there is very strong parental involvement because it is required. Children will actually be removed from the school if the parents don't do their quarterly volunteer hours.  But the teachers were not more qualified or more experienced than those she had in her other previous or later schools. Oh, and they didn't have just the one hour planning period. They had the study period, the planning period during the 3-5 hours, AND the regular planning period that many teachers get during the 8-3 hours.

Only thing fishy with this post is you saying you that you have a 19 year old daughter. Either your avatar was from years ago, or you have found the fountain of youth. If you found it, fill me in. My bones be hurtin!

[jivejong]

That needs to be a universal educational law.

I can't tell you how many parents I wanted to suspend or discipline. Instead, reconciled that some kids and parents just deserve each other.

[MissMusic04]

That needs to be a universal educational law.

+1

Only thing fishy with this post is you saying you that you have a 19 year old daughter. Either your avatar was from years ago, or you have found the fountain of youth. If you found it, fill me in. My bones be hurtin!