It's the stuff that cults are made of...

[LaylaMonroe]

After reading Churchy's posted article about the baby who was starved at the hands of a cult, I'm thinking about something I've pondered in the past.

What kind of person falls prey to cults? Are there specific personality characteristics or moral/spiritual deficiencies that make some people more susceptible to blindly following cult leaders? Does it result from a lack in sound upbringing? Are these people THAT convincing? Can "normal" people (REALLY normal, not "seemingly normal") ever fall prey to a cult? If a seemingly normal person gets ensnared in a cult, does that mean that they were never really stable in the first place?

I'm really trying to figure out how people who seem to be so normal, some of whom extraordinarily intelligent, some who knew the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, some who come from good homes, end up in cults. 

I know you can't answer something like this with logic, but I can't help but to be logical. I can't imagine myself joining any church or organization or group where people died or were killed regularly or tragically or in any way that's associated with being a part of the organization.  In fact, I had a client back in 2003-2004 that was starting a new church. It was one of the most impressive start-ups I'd ever worked in. They started with 12 people and at the first service 125 people joined. Within the first year, they outgrew their 200-seat location and had to have two services. They purchased their own building that same year, and now have probably about 2000 members.  Anyway, I had to resign from my work with this contract because within 3 months, 3 people died... young people. Don't get me wrong. The church was NOT a cult. Not by any means. It's a regular Apostolic church. I just got spooked by the death, and I didn't want to be so close to any group where folks I'm working with are dying. We're in a meeting one day, the next day, I get a call that so-and-so who sat next to me yesterday is dead? Nah man... I had to go.

So how do people develop loyalty to organizations where babies can die or you have to turn your whole paycheck over or they tell you who to marry or all that? That's some powerful manipulation.

[churchyreal]

OMG this is right up my alley as far as my class on New Religious Movements. Ill give my full answer when I get to my laptop.

[SirTJ]

I used to wonder the same with Christians. How could they live like hell, cursing, sexing everything in sight, lying, gossiping, talking about folks...and still talk about being on their way to Glory land...and actually be CONVINCED that they're going.

The only thing I can come up with is vulnerability. I honestly think our minds are trapped inside of a wave of folly and only Christ can set it free. I think about how I used to live hypocritically yet be totally unconscious of the fact that it was displeasing God, and I wonder how I could not be conscious of that fact. It's like when I came to Christ, He freed my mind from a whole bunch of lies, and it's hard to even remember how I could have ever been stuck in such a mindset and be totally unconscious of it...but I know it was.

I think as long as that mind remains un-renewed, it's vulnerable to any and everything. Anyone with the right amount of persuasion can come in and plot whatever they want, and it'll grow. The un-renewed mind won't understand or even try to understand...it'll just go with the flow. It's the cool thing to do, right? And everyone wants to be cool, yes?

The world makes promises they can't keep. Have sex...it'll make you feel better. Get as much money as you can...your life will be fulfilled. Well, Christ promised the same thing. Abundant Life, Eternal life. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The world imitates Christ by presenting it's values as functional Saviors. But it's a lie. All of the sex they said would make you feel better, all of the people you sacrificed your morals to please, all of the money and fame they said would bring fulfillment...all one big lie...and most won't realize the lie until they're looking Jesus square in the eye. But then it'll be to late. Day will have passed...night will have come.

That probably made no sense and I realize I just went on a tangent, but hopefully something in there hit the question's target.

[churchyreal]

That's good SirTJ!

[nessalynn77]

A lot of cults exploit the gaping holes that real churches leave in people's lives.  They get people that fall through the cracks in the local church, and they minister to that open gaping wound.  What better way is there to win someone for life?  When I was in my most vulnerable state you came to me, and loved me when the "saints" were dogging me out.  This has got to be the real thing...

The flip side of that is many times the church ministers to people in this same situation, and as soon as they get on their feet they turn on the very people who were there for them in their time of need.  Go figure.  


Teej, you preachin!  Warmin' up for tonight, huh?

[LaylaMonroe]

WOW, Teej.  I'm so stuck, I gotta read that all over again before I can move on to see what Churchy and Nessa said... lol.  Wow. That was nice and heavy.

[JustBritt]

I used to wonder the same with Christians. How could they live like hell, cursing, sexing everything in sight, lying, gossiping, talking about folks...and still talk about being on their way to Glory land...and actually be CONVINCED that they're going.

The only thing I can come up with is vulnerability. I honestly think our minds are trapped inside of a wave of folly and only Christ can set it free. I think about how I used to live hypocritically yet be totally unconscious of the fact that it was displeasing God, and I wonder how I could not be conscious of that fact. It's like when I came to Christ, He freed my mind from a whole bunch of lies, and it's hard to even remember how I could have ever been stuck in such a mindset and be totally unconscious of it...but I know it was.

I think as long as that mind remains un-renewed, it's vulnerable to any and everything. Anyone with the right amount of persuasion can come in and plot whatever they want, and it'll grow. The un-renewed mind won't understand or even try to understand...it'll just go with the flow. It's the cool thing to do, right? And everyone wants to be cool, yes?

The world makes promises they can't keep. Have sex...it'll make you feel better. Get as much money as you can...your life will be fulfilled. Well, Christ promised the same thing. Abundant Life, Eternal life. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The world imitates Christ by presenting it's values as functional Saviors. But it's a lie. All of the sex they said would make you feel better, all of the people you sacrificed your morals to please, all of the money and fame they said would bring fulfillment...all one big lie...and most won't realize the lie until they're looking Jesus square in the eye. But then it'll be to late. Day will have passed...night will have come.

That probably made no sense and I realize I just went on a tangent, but hopefully something in there hit the question's target.

  Good stuff!

[LaylaMonroe]

A lot of cults exploit the gaping holes that real churches leave in people's lives.  They get people that fall through the cracks in the local church, and they minister to that open gaping wound.  What better way is there to win someone for life?  When I was in my most vulnerable state you came to me, and loved me when the "saints" were dogging me out.  This has got to be the real thing...

The flip side of that is many times the church ministers to people in this same situation, and as soon as they get on their feet they turn on the very people who were there for them in their time of need.  Go figure.  


Teej, you preachin!  Warmin' up for tonight, huh?

That's sad.

I mean, it's not something I didn't know, but it's still sad to hear.

[LaylaMonroe]

I remember when I was a teenager (maybe 17 or 18?), during my COGIC years, there was this woman, "Sis. L."

She was part of a large 3rd or 4th generation COGIC family. Her grandmother was one of the founding members of our church, her parents had both been lifetime members of the church, and she and her 3 sisters were raised there, and she was raising her own 2 daughters there as well. Her sisters, their husbands, and their children were all active members of the church... choir members, ushers, missionaries, SS teachers, etc.  Grandmother was on the Mothers' Board. Sis. L had two spiritual gifts that I remember: prophecy and interpretation. She was very quiet, very sweet; always smiling, never talking. Radiant. Her own husband was unsaved, but she and her children never missed a service, prayer meeting, Bible Study, nothing... she was very active.

One day, she didn't come to church. I asked her sister where she was and told her to tell her I had missed her that Sunday.  Her sister said, "pray for her." Later that week, I found out that she had joined the Kingdom Hall and became a JW and never looked back. When her grandmother passed away, she and the children didn't even come to the homegoing service because of the JW "rule" that they don't step foot into churches.

To this very day, I am stumped. I just don't get it. Period.

[Fenix]

Weak, impressionable and insecure people with little imagination and almost no curiosity.

[nessalynn77]

Weak, impressionable and insecure people with little imagination and almost no curiosity.

...or sometimes it's too much curiosity, no?

[Fenix]

When I say "curiosity", I mean the ability to question "why".

For example: "Uhh, why exactly are we sacrificing this young virgin? Why must she be a virgin? Why can't we use a man? Why must we even sacrifice anyone? Why must we even be IN this cult..."

...and so on and so forth.

[LaylaMonroe]

When I say "curiosity", I mean the ability to question "why".

For example: "Uhh, why exactly are we sacrificing this young virgin? Why must she be a virgin? Why can't we use a man? Why must we even sacrifice anyone? Why must we even be IN this cult..."

...and so on and so forth.

Oh okay. I get it now. I was about to question the "curiosity" thing as well.

I hate to offer that as an explanation though, even if I understand where you're coming from.  Atheists say the same thing about Christians - that we are judged and labeled for questioning things (which is true, at times) and that we don't think for ourselves (which I can't say is true for me). So, it's kinda rough to read that as an explanation for cult members. Many atheists think Christianity is one huge cult. Shoot, many Christians think oneness is a cult. 

FTR, I don't know if I'd describe cult members as weak. Though some are, I'm not sure all are.

[nessalynn77]

When I say "curiosity", I mean the ability to question "why".

For example: "Uhh, why exactly are we sacrificing this young virgin? Why must she be a virgin? Why can't we use a man? Why must we even sacrifice anyone? Why must we even be IN this cult..."

...and so on and so forth.

Okay, that made me laugh.  I don't know if it was supposed to, but I just pictured that one person getting put out of the cult for being annoying... while everybody's being all deep and sinister, she keeps raising her hand with a question...

[LaylaMonroe]

Okay, that made me laugh.  I don't know if it was supposed to, but I just pictured that one person getting put out of the cult for being annoying... while everybody's being all deep and sinister, she keeps raising her hand with a question...

 

[churchyreal]

(Disclaimer: Some of this has already been said). Historically I believe a lot of cults have gotten the people by promising something that was not fulfilled (or at least their perception of fulfillment) through whatever they were in. In my new religious movements class we have been discussing cults and two of the charactersitics was a charismatic leader that is the center of the movement and a quick way to salvation. For example, with Father Divine after a situation in which the judge ruled against him the judge died 3 days later and that led him to believe he was God and his followers as well. Now we will truly never know why he believed that but it is possible that it could have been this issue of superiority. In that context blacks were not treated as equal to whites. Father Divine is also seen as being a leader in the civil rights movement (there are some disparities in opinion about that).

So overall it does seem like the people they get in these cults are insecure, vulnerable and wanting something to satisfy something missing on the inside.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mysteryman]

A lot of cults exploit the gaping holes that real churches leave in people's lives.  They get people that fall through the cracks in the local church, and they minister to that open gaping wound.  What better way is there to win someone for life?  When I was in my most vulnerable state you came to me, and loved me when the "saints" were dogging me out.  This has got to be the real thing...

The flip side of that is many times the church ministers to people in this same situation, and as soon as they get on their feet they turn on the very people who were there for them in their time of need.  Go figure.  


Teej, you preachin!  Warmin' up for tonight, huh?

Yup.

To add it's a process in which they wear you down and you get acclimated. Not much different than how we are brained washed by advertisers.

[jcc4t]

It's called mind manipulation...it's a game. Why do you think pimps are so brilliant transforming broken women into prostitutes? When you get a chance, look at the documentary of Jim Jones and Jamestown. His cult followers that lived all said, "Jim Jones was the nicest, most carring man who showed interest in them as a person when noone else cared...this is why I joined his church." 

There are many cult churches here in the united states and many attend who aren't even aware of it. Whenever you visit a church and you notice the congregation praising the pastor, everybody has on the exact same dress, and hair styles, the pastor tells you what you can or can't do, or has either slept with or fathered a child by every other sista in the church, etc. it's a cult! 

[nessalynn77]

It's called mind manipulation...it's a game. Why do you think pimps are so brilliant transforming broken women into prostitutes? When you get a chance, look at the documentary of Jim Jones and Jamestown. His cult followers that lived all said, "Jim Jones was the nicest, most carring man who showed interest in them as a person when noone else cared...this is why I joined his church." 

There are many cult churches here in the united states and many attend who aren't even aware of it. Whenever you visit a church and you notice the congregation praising the pastor, everybody has on the exact same dress, and hair styles, the pastor tells you what you can or can't do, or has either slept with or fathered a child by every other sista in the church, etc. it's a cult! 

Okay, most of that is stuff I would notice!  LOL!

[THE WOLFMAN]

the congregation praising the pastor, everybody has on the exact same dress, and hair styles, the pastor tells you what you can or can't do, or has either slept with or fathered a child by every other sista in the church, etc.

Come to Brooklyn, i can show u some of that....