Christians interacting with atheists..............

[BigFoot_BigThumb]

I recently saw something that made me think back to a documentary I saw.  We have talked about church vs. secular and all of that especially as it pertains to music.  Now here's the deal.


There is a man by the name of Jerry Wexler who was a very well-known producer that has produced some classic records over the years.  He was an industry heavyweight whose name is still held in high regard today even after his death in 2008.  He was a very outspoken atheist and he did not bite his tongue when it came to his beliefs.  But he produced three classic Gospel albums with one being Aretha Franklin's Amazing Grace(1972) which is an absolute masterpiece, and the other two being Bob Dylan's Slow Train Coming(1979) and Saved(1980). 

When Bob Dylan evangelized to Wexler before the project started, Wexler responded with "Bob, you're dealing with a sixty-two-year old Jewish atheist. Let's just make an album" after finding out it was Gospel music he would be producing.

Now my questions come in here.  Is the message in these records negated because it was produced by an atheist or do the words hold true?  Did the artists compromise their moral integrity by working with this man, or did Wexler actually compromise his beliefs by aligning himself with this work?  I mean Dylan wrote the words to his songs so it was still his message.  Should Dylan and Aretha immediately found another producer to do the projects upon knowing he was an atheist?  This was indeed a chance for them to minister to him and in the end it was his choice whether or not to take heed. 

My main reason for asking this is because so many people give gospel the upper hand simply because it is a certain person on the cover singing it the way one feels is the only way to legitimately do it, or a certain person is more easily accepted doing it the way they do it.  How many other projects are out there that are held in higher regard by the church or Christians in general because of it's traditional elements without knowing who's really behind the scenes in comparison to the more contemporary work of today that catches so much flack?


Now I wonder if this will get out of hand.  Lord I hope not.

[under13]

[MyVirtue]

LOL... this is something that should be taken to the drum room i think...lol.... this thread is going to get eaten alive.... i'm gunna do this    and and  even this sometimes  and then . most importantly, this  will keep everything in order. 

[BigFoot_BigThumb]

LOL... this is something that should be taken to the drum room i think...lol.... this thread is going to get eaten alive.... i'm gunna do this    and and  even this sometimes  and then . most importantly, this  will keep everything in order. 

I wouldn't say that.  This has nothing to do with drums.  This is about the music as a whole that we all do.  This is a whole new take on this ongoing debate because of the huge blatant contradiction to a work not expected to have one. 

[MyVirtue]

I wouldn't say that.  This has nothing to do with drums.  This is about the music as a whole that we all do.  This is a whole new take on this ongoing debate because of the huge blatant contradiction to a work not expected to have one. 

WHOA WHOA WHOA... hold it horsey....  .. i was using the drum room ONLY because there's sooo many controversial subjects and discussions... well, not always more controversial, but the dialogue is WAY more harsh and feelings are waaaayyy less spared. lol. that's alll...i guess i should have just  ... 

[OleJ]

The Savoy label put out thousands of gospel songs from the 1950s thru the 1990s, and those gospel songs eventually became part of the Malaco catalog. Until the 1970s, the owner of Savoy was Herman Lubinsky. Lubinsky produced many of those songs and was Jewish. He was also known for being a profane character and for cheating many artists out of money. Because of those facts, does that make the message put forth in thousands of gospel songs released on Savoy (and Malaco through association) compromised because of who the producer was?

(waits politely for an answer)

[fretai03]

WHOA WHOA WHOA... hold it horsey....  .. i was using the drum room ONLY because there's sooo many controversial subjects and discussions... well, not always more controversial, but the dialogue is WAY more harsh and feelings are waaaayyy less spared. lol. that's alll...i guess i should have just  ... 

CONTINUES MINOR DERAIL:

Who says the drummers hold their tongue in the Lounge?


*Admittedly, I got to that thread WAAAAY to late and didn't get a chance to put my foot in my mouth too*

END DERAIL

[docjohn]

hey BFBT;was JESUS message negated because HE came to and hung out with the heathen?Even HIS mother,father,brothers,and sisters besides HIS kin(Jews) were Lost souls BEfore they believed !!! Did JESUS hang with the "church crowd" or eat with the sinners?

If We DON't interact -AND EFFECT them(lost) who will? Trick is to avoid being sullied by the lost;"bad company corrupts good morals";how will they know UNless a preacher is sent?"

Case in point,I have a lot of Jewish friends and hang with them at the temple.We were doing music for a temple function(secular music),during the break as the musicians "talked" it was "JESUS CHRIST" every sentence!  NOT in a praise manner-as I stood there;every time they spoke -I simply said "LORD and SAVIOUR".Finally,as if on que,they all stopped talking-and hung their heads in silence.

So,let's play religious-what's a good "bapticostal" doing playing secular music in a jewish temple with all the booze flowing?How come Dr.J isn't sitting at home playing "holy"? Point is-here's a move of LORD in the midst of all the darkness;WORD says "LORD is looking for A man ' to go,do,send-HIS WILL.I still stay in contact with these folks,love them,pray for them-AND confront them about JESUS on an incessant basis.

check this out- u-tube,search Penn "A gift of a Bible" an atheist who is Getting it!

[Fingers!]

Jer 25:8
Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Because ye have not heard my words, Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant...


My point of view.
God would use a heathen to do his work.  Hs is sovereign, He do whatever He wants.  Nebuchadnezzar, at that time, did not know that THIS God existed.  He had his own idol god.  Yet, God still used him, referred to him as his servant.   
If God would use a heathen king to take down the Chosen people, then I would imagine that He could use an atheist to make a record, if that is what He wants to do...

Thank the Lord that God finally converted Neb, like Apostle Paul.  Read Daniel 4.  That is Nebuchadnezzar witnessing to the whole world of who the God of Daniel is.



Da 4:34
And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation...

Da 4:35
... he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou

Da 4:37
Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment...

[gtrdave]

Anyone familiar with the Christian rock band Third Day?
I got to hear the lead singer/songwriter, Mac Powell, speak at a conference not too long ago and he took some time to give some insight on the recording process of their newest album, Revelation.
In it, he described how the producer, Howard Benson, is not a believer and Mac went on to explain that this did make it somewhat difficult to maintain a Christian 'atmosphere' in the studio, but that it also challenged the band to really live what it is that they believe.

In one example, Mac described the recording a the song "Born Again" and the fact that Howard was against putting that song on the record, but it wasn't for the reasons that one might expect. Mac said that Howard 'just didn't get' the song in it's original form, mainly because it didn't sound genuine. Yikes! This caused Mac to revisit the song, rework it and rerecord it. The released version ended up going to #1 on the AC charts.

Take from that example what you will.

[MyVirtue]

Anyone familiar with the Christian rock band Third Day?
I got to hear the lead singer/songwriter, Mac Powell, speak at a conference not too long ago and he took some time to give some insight on the recording process of their newest album, Revelation.
In it, he described how the producer, Howard Benson, is not a believer and Mac went on to explain that this did make it somewhat difficult to maintain a Christian 'atmosphere' in the studio, but that it also challenged the band to really live what it is that they believe.

In one example, Mac described the recording a the song "Born Again" and the fact that Howard was against putting that song on the record, but it wasn't for the reasons that one might expect. Mac said that Howard 'just didn't get' the song in it's original form, mainly because it didn't sound genuine. Yikes! This caused Mac to revisit the song, rework it and rerecord it. The released version ended up going to #1 on the AC charts.

Take from that example what you will.

<--- LOVES THIRD DAY!!!
<--- LOVES THE BIG PRINT!!!

[BigFoot_BigThumb]

Anyone familiar with the Christian rock band Third Day?
I got to hear the lead singer/songwriter, Mac Powell, speak at a conference not too long ago and he took some time to give some insight on the recording process of their newest album, Revelation.
In it, he described how the producer, Howard Benson, is not a believer and Mac went on to explain that this did make it somewhat difficult to maintain a Christian 'atmosphere' in the studio, but that it also challenged the band to really live what it is that they believe.

In one example, Mac described the recording a the song "Born Again" and the fact that Howard was against putting that song on the record, but it wasn't for the reasons that one might expect. Mac said that Howard 'just didn't get' the song in it's original form, mainly because it didn't sound genuine. Yikes! This caused Mac to revisit the song, rework it and rerecord it. The released version ended up going to #1 on the AC charts.

Take from that example what you will.

Looks like the same situation coming full circle. 

[under13]

Anyone familiar with the Christian rock band Third Day?
I got to hear the lead singer/songwriter, Mac Powell, speak at a conference not too long ago and he took some time to give some insight on the recording process of their newest album, Revelation.
In it, he described how the producer, Howard Benson, is not a believer and Mac went on to explain that this did make it somewhat difficult to maintain a Christian 'atmosphere' in the studio, but that it also challenged the band to really live what it is that they believe.

In one example, Mac described the recording a the song "Born Again" and the fact that Howard was against putting that song on the record, but it wasn't for the reasons that one might expect. Mac said that Howard 'just didn't get' the song in it's original form, mainly because it didn't sound genuine. Yikes! This caused Mac to revisit the song, rework it and rerecord it. The released version ended up going to #1 on the AC charts.

Take from that example what you will.

God can use anything he wants to Glorify him

[BigFoot_BigThumb]

The actual question still hasn't really been answered.  The works mentioned were never questioned because of what they are, but Mary Mary's God in Me along with other songs and much of Kirk Frankiln's work has been outright vilified by some because it didn't sound right as they was seen to be catering to the world instead of to God and subject to vigorous debate in this very forum.  But then more traditional work made by people who are now known to not believe still seems to have merit because of it's sound while the contemporary style is easily dismissible. 

I mean are you all really seeing the point?

[Fingers!]

I thought that, overall, the question was Is it okay to work with a non believer to make gospel music and if you do, would it negate your message.

[BassbyGrace]

God can use anything he wants to Glorify him

This. 

In addition, one is in more plain view than the other.  Not alot of ppl are going to listen to EVERY gospel song and dissect it to see who produced it, whos studio they used, who tuned the guitars, etc. and are they saved.  On the other hand, Mary Mary and others in question have their songs played in very open and public settings, thus making them more vunerable to judging. 

I finally found the scripture I was looking for concerning this area.

Philippians 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will

16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds

17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel

18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

[THE WOLFMAN]

So,let's play religious-what's a good "bapticostal" doing playing secular music in a jewish temple with all the booze flowing?

kosher booze.

[docjohn]

point,set,and match goes to BG!!!!!!

Funny regarding the vino!!! Have seen a lot of "religious" folks bent out of shape about it-yet some of the "soberest" folks I know are under the influence of ALL kinds of "spirits" that are NOT of LORD.Drunkards of another ilk!